The List of Skills with Notable Problems. Edited from original

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

So I have no doubt that a lot of you will have seen my 4 posts on here polling about several skills. Its because I wanted to make a list about skills with notable problems.

What I want to achieve:

I want to compile a list of the worst skills in the game using community feedback. And using the community feedback for the skills I am unsure about, I will make this list discussing all of the problems and potential ideas to help fix the skills in question.

Please assist me in my list of worst skills so I can forward it to the developers via the Class Reps.

Considered Skills (please read this. this is just considered skills and is NOT going to be the final list and it is looked at from the Murkmire patch)

(Below is a CONSIDERED list of the worst skills along with skills with problems it includes: bad skills, underwhelming skills, skills that dont compare to their other morph and skills with a problem bad enough that deters most people away from the skill)

Dragonknight: Molten Whip, Shattering Rocks, Molten Armaments
Nightblade: Shrewd Offering, Reaping Mark(under discussion), Lotus Fan
Templar: Solar Disturbance(under discussion), Sun Shield Line, Healing Ritual Line.
Sorcerer: Shattering Prison, Twilight Tormentor,
Warden: Growing Swarm, Falcons Swiftness Line, Bursting Vines, Expansive Frost Cloak, Crystallized Slab, Arctic Blast, Frozen Retreat

Weapons:
Bow: Toxic Barrage, arrow spray line
Two handed: Wrecking blow
One handed and Shield: Deep Slash, Power slam
Dual Wield: Whirling Blades, Bloodthirst
Destruction Staff: unstable wall of elements, elemental susceptibility.
Restoration Staff: Force Siphon line, blessing of restoration

World:
Soul Magic: soul trap line, shatter soul
Vampire: baleful Mist, accelerating drain

Guild:
Fighters guild: Silver Shards, circle of protection line, Expert hunter line
Mages Guild: degeneration, fire rune line
Psijic Order: Mend wounds line, but specifically mend spirit. (Can't proc enchantments and cannot weave skills)
Undaunted: Sanguine Altar, trapping webs line(synergy is very hard to activate. Tangling webs morph is useless and its radius is a little small at 4 meters), Spiked Bone Shield(outclassed and effect isn't very powerful)

Edit:
Changed the post a whole lot from the original.

idk · October 2018

I actually thought there would be something to back these statements when I went into this thread.

Some of those items, especially in bold, seem to be due to limited experience.

One example is Circle of Protection is used in vet trials. If it is worthy of a slot in any end game trial it is certainly far from one of the worst skills in the game. You even have that in bold which shows a flaw since you are claiming it is one of the worst skills regardless of it's use.

Granted, some of those skill are under discussion with the class rep group, Blessing of Restoration being one of them.

There is more on both side of this but that is all the time I have ATM. Just saying that list is not a proper list of worst skills. maybe some are misunderstood by some players.

Maybe provide some information to support your claims here based on the same threads you claiming these are from. Provide actual talking points for each item.

Edit: Silver shards is another being used. In both PvP and PvE.

Edit: The title and context of the OP of this thread has been strongly edited. The original title and context of this thread was this was a list of the worst skills in the game. Some were even marked as not touchable by any feedback players provided.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

idk wrote: »

I actually thought there would be something to back these statements when I went into this thread.

Some of those items, especially in bold, seem to be due to limited experience.

One example is Circle of Protection is used in vet trials. If it is worthy of a slot in any end game trial it is certainly far from one of the worst skills in the game. You even have that in bold which shows a flaw since you are claiming it is one of the worst skills regardless of it's use.

Granted, some of those skill are under discussion with the class rep group, Blessing of Restoration being one of them.

There is more on both side of this but that is all the time I have ATM. Just saying that list is not a proper list of worst skills. maybe some are misunderstood by some players.

Maybe provide some information to support your claims here based on the same threads you claiming these are from. Provide actual talking points for each item.

Edit: Silver shards is another being used. In both PvP and PvE.

I got evidence. But this post isnt about that. The evidence comes in completed list once the community helps to provide their feedback. I understand that you have doubts but i really do have evidence. For example:

Ring: costs way too much and its morphs arent all that helpful, turn undead is pretty close to useless as fear is not used very much or even at all in pve. In pvp there are better sources for fear and cc in general on top of this being very specific. Ring of preservation is the much better morph but its roll dodge reduction is odd for a ground based skill. Over all the skill is used but the cost is so high for the effect it provides. This is why i have included it. Worst skills also incompances skills that have something wrong with them that makes them not used as often as they could be.

Girl_Number8 · October 2018

> My most selfish desire is Ice DPS. You see, I am a warden who wants to have fun and make a cryomancer who does damage<

You need to play more then one class and playstyle to really do well at this game. That is what I do and the ones that have stayed with the game since the beginning, or long enough to learn that Zos has it's own agenda. It is not uncommon after some dlcs to race change characters to make them viable again or send them to sithis with a delete character. I am pretty sure Zos knows this money wise rather well. If your main is a warden then you are in luck, switch to a stam race and enjoy Mirkmire.

@Idk
Some of those items, especially in bold, seem to be due to limited experience.

And this~^^^

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Look everyone, I am not asking you all to agree with my opinions. Just to participate in my polls and to give feedback so i can publish this. Having an opinion will always draw the attention of people who dont agree.

Coatmagic · October 2018

My vamp mag warden ice tank sNoWfLaKe

growing swarm ~ it's great for big trash pulls when soloing xD

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · October 2018

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Look everyone, I am not asking you all to agree with my opinions. Just to participate in my polls and to give feedback so i can publish this. Having an opinion will always draw the attention of people who dont agree.

Translation: "smile, nod and pretend that you care. My opinion matters, yours is debatable."

On a more serious note there are some skills in the game which are under used, or too weak to be used effectively.

Some very odd skills people claim are weak and laugh at, until someone with a bit of vision and sense sees it for what it is and uses it. For example, overflowing altar. For a long time blood altar was a joke. Now it's something that is slotted by many groups in things such as vCR.

Claiming that those in bold are not up for discussion is kind of going against the idea of community forums, and polls, and feedback because you have apparently made your mind up regarding it.
That’s poor form and bias of the highest order, which means published findings would carry the same bias and slant as your current stance, making the findings worthless.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Look everyone, I am not asking you all to agree with my opinions. Just to participate in my polls and to give feedback so i can publish this. Having an opinion will always draw the attention of people who dont agree.

Translation: "smile, nod and pretend that you care. My opinion matters, yours is debatable."

On a more serious note there are some skills in the game which are under used, or too weak to be used effectively.

Some very odd skills people claim are weak and laugh at, until someone with a bit of vision and sense sees it for what it is and uses it. For example, overflowing altar. For a long time blood altar was a joke. Now it's something that is slotted by many groups in things such as vCR.

Claiming that those in bold are not up for discussion is kind of going against the idea of community forums, and polls, and feedback because you have apparently made your mind up regarding it.
That’s poor form and bias of the highest order, which means published findings would carry the same bias and slant as your current stance, making the findings worthless.

Alright sure, ill remove the bold. Edit: Done!

Royaji · October 2018

Nerf all the other morphs to make morph choices more meaningful. That's ZOS's way of balancing and no forum post will change it.

RedRook · October 2018

I use several of the skills on your list. Some of them are merely unpopular, not especially bad. Some are highly situational - useful for solo but pointless in a trial, or vice-versa.

I have to admit it makes me a little edgy that you're planning to spotlight skills I like as if they should be changed or taken away, but I also don't think they pay much attention to anything we say. Going to be busy for a while dealing with the most recent losses. RIP refreshing path, farewell overload bar. :'(

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

RedRook wrote: »

I use several of the skills on your list. Some of them are merely unpopular, not especially bad. Some are highly situational - useful for solo but pointless in a trial, or vice-versa.

I have to admit it makes me a little edgy that you're planning to spotlight skills I like as if they should be changed or taken away, but I also don't think they pay much attention to anything we say. Going to be busy for a while dealing with the most recent losses. RIP refreshing path, farewell overload bar. :'(

i gotta at least try to make all skills better. i mean im only a fan but still.

Maryal · October 2018

@ESO_Nightingale

Most of the people who post on the forums pvp'ers
However, the overwhelming majority of people playing ESO are pve'ers (who do not participate in these forums)

ZOS already knows how frequent various skills/abilities are used -- we are taking about a game development company -- do you really thing they don't already have a program that automatically compiles statistical information (analytics), including how often various skills/abilities are used each day/week/month. The information ZOS collects covers their entire player base. The bottom line is this: if a skill/ability is 'useless' it will be infrequently used by the player-base as a whole. Just because you think a skill/ability is useless doesn't mean the rest of the player base (hundreds of thousands of players world wide) think the same way.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Maryal wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale

Most of the people who post on the forums pvp'ers
However, the overwhelming majority of people playing ESO are pve'ers (who do not participate in these forums)

ZOS already knows how frequent various skills/abilities are used -- we are taking about a game development company -- do you really thing they don't already have a program that automatically compiles statistical information (analytics), including how often various skills/abilities are used each day/week/month. The information ZOS collects covers their entire player base. The bottom line is this: if a skill/ability is 'useless' it will be infrequently used by the player-base as a whole. Just because you think a skill/ability is useless doesn't mean the rest of the player base (hundreds of thousands of players world wide) think the same way.

I see what your message is here, but its not just me who think these skills are bad, a large amount of them come from other people who said why the specific skill in question is bad. ZOS might gather data but it's not shown that they have put it to use when it comes to the worst skills like fire rune and soul trap.

Skullstachio · October 2018

@Maryal wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale

Most of the people who post on the forums pvp'ers
However, the overwhelming majority of people playing ESO are pve'ers (who do not participate in these forums)

ZOS already knows how frequent various skills/abilities are used -- we are taking about a game development company -- do you really thing they don't already have a program that automatically compiles statistical information (analytics), including how often various skills/abilities are used each day/week/month. The information ZOS collects covers their entire player base. The bottom line is this: if a skill/ability is 'useless' it will be infrequently used by the player-base as a whole. Just because you think a skill/ability is useless doesn't mean the rest of the player base (hundreds of thousands of players world wide) think the same way.

I resent that as I happen to be a PvE’er who tends to frequent these forums daily. But still, some valid points to be taken here.

@ESO_Nightingale
You left out “Soul Lock” there... (major problem with that Passive is that one is basically wasting a skill point just to imporove the chances of filling an empty soul gem from 5% to 10% and thus has no real sentimental value as a Passive.)

Also, when it comes down to opinions, always take the commentary as a type of criticism, “agree to disagree” as they say, but really, no two minds are alike (just like a snowflake.)

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

@Maryal wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale

Most of the people who post on the forums pvp'ers
However, the overwhelming majority of people playing ESO are pve'ers (who do not participate in these forums)

ZOS already knows how frequent various skills/abilities are used -- we are taking about a game development company -- do you really thing they don't already have a program that automatically compiles statistical information (analytics), including how often various skills/abilities are used each day/week/month. The information ZOS collects covers their entire player base. The bottom line is this: if a skill/ability is 'useless' it will be infrequently used by the player-base as a whole. Just because you think a skill/ability is useless doesn't mean the rest of the player base (hundreds of thousands of players world wide) think the same way.

I resent that as I happen to be a PvE’er who tends to frequent these forums daily. But still, some valid points to be taken here.

@ESO_Nightingale
You left out “Soul Lock” there... (major problem with that Passive is that one is basically wasting a skill point just to imporove the chances of filling an empty soul gem from 5% to 10% and thus has no real sentimental value as a Passive.)

Also, when it comes down to opinions, always take the commentary as a type of criticism, “agree to disagree” as they say, but really, no two minds are alike (just like a snowflake.)

Passives are a whole other story...

Skullstachio · October 2018

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale

Most of the people who post on the forums pvp'ers
However, the overwhelming majority of people playing ESO are pve'ers (who do not participate in these forums)

ZOS already knows how frequent various skills/abilities are used -- we are taking about a game development company -- do you really thing they don't already have a program that automatically compiles statistical information (analytics), including how often various skills/abilities are used each day/week/month. The information ZOS collects covers their entire player base. The bottom line is this: if a skill/ability is 'useless' it will be infrequently used by the player-base as a whole. Just because you think a skill/ability is useless doesn't mean the rest of the player base (hundreds of thousands of players world wide) think the same way.

I resent that as I happen to be a PvE’er who tends to frequent these forums daily. But still, some valid points to be taken here.

@ESO_Nightingale
You left out “Soul Lock” there... (major problem with that Passive is that one is basically wasting a skill point just to imporove the chances of filling an empty soul gem from 5% to 10% and thus has no real sentimental value as a Passive.)

Also, when it comes down to opinions, always take the commentary as a type of criticism, “agree to disagree” as they say, but really, no two minds are alike (just like a snowflake.)

Passives are a whole other story...

Not completely, some Passives are designed to work in unison with said abilities, otherwise almost every ability may not be able to hold out on their own without indirect support from said Passives.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale

Most of the people who post on the forums pvp'ers
However, the overwhelming majority of people playing ESO are pve'ers (who do not participate in these forums)

ZOS already knows how frequent various skills/abilities are used -- we are taking about a game development company -- do you really thing they don't already have a program that automatically compiles statistical information (analytics), including how often various skills/abilities are used each day/week/month. The information ZOS collects covers their entire player base. The bottom line is this: if a skill/ability is 'useless' it will be infrequently used by the player-base as a whole. Just because you think a skill/ability is useless doesn't mean the rest of the player base (hundreds of thousands of players world wide) think the same way.

I resent that as I happen to be a PvE’er who tends to frequent these forums daily. But still, some valid points to be taken here.

@ESO_Nightingale
You left out “Soul Lock” there... (major problem with that Passive is that one is basically wasting a skill point just to imporove the chances of filling an empty soul gem from 5% to 10% and thus has no real sentimental value as a Passive.)

Also, when it comes down to opinions, always take the commentary as a type of criticism, “agree to disagree” as they say, but really, no two minds are alike (just like a snowflake.)

Passives are a whole other story...

Not completely, some Passives are designed to work in unison with said abilities, otherwise almost every ability may not be able to hold out on their own without indirect support from said Passives.

I meant it sort of as they have their own list. As there are some bad passives out there too like you stated with soul lock.

Chrysa1is · October 2018

Reapers Mark is amazing. Its very helpful when soloing dungeons or world bosses because you can basically use ads as a health station. You mark and kill them when your HP gets low, and once killed you get your damage buff which you can use on the bosses.

Shrewd offering is THE worst skill. Totally useless.

Starlock · October 2018

Interesting... leaving out a swath of skills that have almost no point outside of PvP. Guess we know what type of content the OP plays.

Red_Feather · October 2018

Does this includes passives, because Soul Shatter is something that I don't understand at all. It seems to do so little damage.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Soul_Shatter

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Starlock wrote: »

Interesting... leaving out a swath of skills that have almost no point outside of PvP. Guess we know what type of content the OP plays.

I play both pve and pvp. Would you mind listing those skills you think need to be listed with reasons why they need to be?

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Red_Feather wrote: »

Does this includes passives, because Soul Shatter is something that I don't understand at all. It seems to do so little damage.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Soul_Shatter

Might do passives on a seperate list.

Ladislao · October 2018

I am too lazy to give detailed explanations, so I will not be unnecessarily meticulous and will only highlight those skills from the list with which I completely disagree.

Healing Ritual
Frozen Retreat
Toxic Barrage
Shatter Soul
Silver Shards
Circle of Protection

But in general, I agree with @Maryal. You should not consider yourself smarter than a whole staff of developers.

Gilvoth · October 2018

thread maker is entitled to his personal opinion. because thats all this thread is.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

Ladislao wrote: »

I am too lazy to give detailed explanations, so I will not be unnecessarily meticulous and will only highlight those skills from the list with which I completely disagree.

Healing Ritual

Frozen Retreat

Toxic Barrage

Shatter Soul

Silver Shards

Circle of Protection

But in general, I agree with @Maryal. You should not consider yourself smarter than a whole staff of developers.

Never said i was smarter. You just assumed i thought that.

Gilvoth · October 2018

ok, well lets try this instead.
ill go to the Pizza shop and tell them i want pizza to now be made of a cardboard crust and zero toppings and Double the price, because that's the way i like it, and i know ALOT of people agree with me.
everyone else gets to enjoy the new cardboard because just a few of us want it that way and we make our voice heard!
Cardboard Pizza, zero toppings double the price

that's exactly what these type of "change" skills and change this, that type threads are doing.

Gilvoth · October 2018

we dont want these changes
these changes ruin gameplay that people are enjoying.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ok, well lets try this instead.
ill go to the Pizza shop and tell them i want pizza to now be made of a cardboard crust and zero toppings and Double the price, because that's the way i like it, and i know ALOT of people agree with me.
everyone else gets to enjoy the new cardboard because just a few of us want it that way and we make our voice heard!
Cardboard Pizza, zero toppings double the price

that's exactly what these type of "change" skills and change this, that type threads are doing.

Ive been asking others what they think. This isnt just my opinion. As im using community feedback to narrow down the list and to incorporate that feedback...?

Gilvoth · October 2018

you and your friends want changes to skills
me and my friends do not want those changes

GreenHere · October 2018

Not to ride in here like some white knight or whatever, but I think a lot of posters are being a little harsh.

If instead of assuming the worst of the OP, you were to think that maybe they just wanted to collect some community feedback on skills and morphs for the sake of having more informed opinions (for all involved, btw), maybe these threads would be more productive.

I think having honest discussions about abilities in a game with such a diverse player base is not only a good idea, but necessary. There's a LOT that analytics can't tell you. And there's a LOT of insight into actually playing the game that the devs seem to lack. (They're busy making the game, after all; they play it less than a lot of us do. You've got to consider/remember that their perspective is quite different from most, if not all, players'.)

If anything, these sort of open discussions should be considered a boon to the game's health. Honestly, I don't know why threads like the polls @ESO_Nightingale has made aren't regularly made and monitored by some ZOS employee(s)... Too many decisions seem to be made in a vacuum.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you and your friends want changes to skills
me and my friends do not want those changes

Well say so when i do a poll on those skills. Thats okay.