The bolded is flatout wrong. I have seen grand overlords in pvp, doing nothing else than spam light attacks. Time invested =/= skill.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »With reference to this... I don't believe this IS an AOE... are you referring to the first skill in the line? Puncture... it morphs into Pierce Armour (which debuffs spell resistance as well as physical), and Ransack (which increases my physical resistance). I see no reference to a self heal or aoe in either description...
Puncturing strikes is a skill from the templar skill line "Aedric Spear", this skill https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Puncturing_Strikes..I swapped out Ransack for Low Slash, and I can't say I'm much impressed. It uses twice the stamina, does less damage and attacks more slowly (and looks kind of silly). However, I haven't got it morphed yet, I'll let you know more when I do
ransack is the weaker morph of "Puncture", https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Puncture, the other morph is better because it will raise your damage with magic and physical sources. the resist you get from ransack is only ~2% damage mitigation. hardly anything, meanwhile, your spell will hit for ~11% more damage if you use the other morph.
Low Slash, https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Low_Slash, is not used for damage, i was simply pointing out that you where wrong when you said "Part of the issue might be a lack of AOE damage. Every other weapon has some kind of AOE attack, but not so with sword and shield." the skill is used for the minor main, which lower the damage from the mob you are hitting with the skill by 15%, morphed to heroic slash, gives ulti gen as well, both thing tanks need to do.There are some conceptual limitations on the character. He's not using any of his class skills (yet), except the one healing spell. The only magic he's learned to use since coming to Tamriel is what he's learned at the Mage's Guild (meaning staff skills and Mage Guild skills...). At present, I don't even have an ultimate to use.
if you are RPing then stop asking for changes to fundamental game mechanics, that you don't understand. you are not playing the game like you ought to be if you want the results you desire. this really erked me-Second, I'm going to suggest a revamp of this skill set. There's just no way to do any decent damage. Perhaps adjusting the morphs so one provides more dps while the other provides more defense (and taunting).
you have no idea how to play the game, moreover you seem to not want to learn, because of RP reasons. so either learn to play the game, or RP a reason why your toon sucks. asking for fundamental game mechanics to be changed, while you are level 33, while RPing is just bad.
@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Ease up on the guy. People make suggestions every day on these forums, 99.9% of them won't be changed but that doesn't stop people from doing it. He obviously knows how to play the game being CP300.
OP keep playing how you want to play and just ignore the negativity from people like this. I think you understand that you aren't going to be endgame raiding with a sword and board but you make a valid point that sword and board is 100% pigeonholed into tanking and does next to nothing in terms of damage.
I understand you. Though it is a matter of perspective. You are coming at this from an RP perspective, where you wish that every skill line offers the same template. But imagine this from the perspective of PvE (vet dungeons and trials). If ZOS would take your approach, a main tank would complain how he only has a few useful skills from SnB to tank with. He wouldn't need this SnB AoE attack end would up lacking tools to do his job, so to say. Not saying it is like that, but just an example how you have to look at the bigger picture.Morgha_Kul wrote: »To clarify...
I know that the sword and shield skillset is designed mainly for tanking. I understand that means its damage will be somewhat lower than what might be thought of as average.
I also know that my character has some conceptual limitations that are making it harder to do damage overall. I don't have ALL of his points in Stamina since he DOES use some magicka skills, mainly for healing. However, I do have him set up with bonuses to his Max Stamina (and a little to Health), in an effort to get his damage up a bit. I also know that with no CP spent as yet, he's not going to benefit from the points he does have.
It's not that I'm not open to suggestions; quite the contrary. I'm quite willing to listen to advice and ideas how to improve his performance, within the limits of the concept.
I did not start this thread to suggest a change to anything except my character. I want to be clear on that. My suggestions for changes to the skills was merely for the sake of discussion, as it seemed to me there was kind of a hole in the set, compared to all the others. In reality, if I had been designing the sets, they would have had three 'basic' skills each. One for doing damage, one for defense and one for area damage. The remaining two would be designed to reflect the "role" of the set.
For instance, Two Handed weapons might have had Uppercut (damage), Cleave (aoe) and Momentum, with two more skills based on doing damage, since that's the role of the 2 handed weapons.
One Hand and Shield would have had Puncture (damage), Some kind of slash (aoe) and Defensive Stance, with two more skills designed around tanking.
Even Restoration Staff would have been done this way, with something for damage, something for aoe and something for defense, with two more skills based on healing.
Now, discussing these ideas does not mean I'm actually suggesting them. I might like to see things tweaked along these lines, but I really don't expect it to happen, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to expect it to happen... so relax.
In any case, I've dropped Low Slash, it's just too stamina expensive for general use, and its "aoe" is kind of lackluster, as it only affects 2 other targets. I'll stick with Ransack. My damage output is adequate, if underwhelming, and will undoubtedly improve once I get into my CP and get some more permanent gear.
Once more, I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter.
I understand you. Though it is a matter of perspective. You are coming at this from an RP perspective, where you wish that every skill line offers the same template. But imagine this from the perspective of PvE (vet dungeons and trials). If ZOS would take your approach, a main tank would complain how he only has a few useful skills from SnB to tank with. He wouldn't need this SnB AoE attack end would up lacking tools to do his job, so to say. Not saying it is like that, but just an example how you have to look at the bigger picture.Morgha_Kul wrote: »To clarify...
I know that the sword and shield skillset is designed mainly for tanking. I understand that means its damage will be somewhat lower than what might be thought of as average.
I also know that my character has some conceptual limitations that are making it harder to do damage overall. I don't have ALL of his points in Stamina since he DOES use some magicka skills, mainly for healing. However, I do have him set up with bonuses to his Max Stamina (and a little to Health), in an effort to get his damage up a bit. I also know that with no CP spent as yet, he's not going to benefit from the points he does have.
It's not that I'm not open to suggestions; quite the contrary. I'm quite willing to listen to advice and ideas how to improve his performance, within the limits of the concept.
I did not start this thread to suggest a change to anything except my character. I want to be clear on that. My suggestions for changes to the skills was merely for the sake of discussion, as it seemed to me there was kind of a hole in the set, compared to all the others. In reality, if I had been designing the sets, they would have had three 'basic' skills each. One for doing damage, one for defense and one for area damage. The remaining two would be designed to reflect the "role" of the set.
For instance, Two Handed weapons might have had Uppercut (damage), Cleave (aoe) and Momentum, with two more skills based on doing damage, since that's the role of the 2 handed weapons.
One Hand and Shield would have had Puncture (damage), Some kind of slash (aoe) and Defensive Stance, with two more skills designed around tanking.
Even Restoration Staff would have been done this way, with something for damage, something for aoe and something for defense, with two more skills based on healing.
Now, discussing these ideas does not mean I'm actually suggesting them. I might like to see things tweaked along these lines, but I really don't expect it to happen, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to expect it to happen... so relax.
In any case, I've dropped Low Slash, it's just too stamina expensive for general use, and its "aoe" is kind of lackluster, as it only affects 2 other targets. I'll stick with Ransack. My damage output is adequate, if underwhelming, and will undoubtedly improve once I get into my CP and get some more permanent gear.
Once more, I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter.
This game is designed to be all about combining weapons and different skill lines to complete a build. It is not: "pick 1 weapon as your build and be able to do everything". That would severely limit theorycrafting.
I would love to give you some advice, but we need to know where you are at right now. Tell us what you wear, what quality the gear is and what food, mundus and stuff you use. Also the skills you have slotted.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »I've been agonizing, trying desperately to do something to get my damage level to something reasonable, but nothing I've done seems to help. So, here I am.
The character in question uses sword and board. Now, I know that's a set meant to be more defensive, but the disparity in offense is ridiculously extreme.
For example, I went to a Dolmen and happened to be there when the cultists appeared to begin the anchor bit. I attacked one and was busily stabbing away at him when someone HALF my level came in and obliterated them all in about 3 seconds. I'd been fighting them for about 30 seconds, and hadn't even managed to bring down the one I had been attacking.
As I say, I get it, it's a tanking set, but even low level characters are VASTLY exceeding the damage I'm doing... and I can't seem to do anything to remedy the situation.
At the moment I'm using 5 pieces Hunding's, and 4 Storm Knight (the helmet stubbornly refuses to drop for me). I haven't spent my CP, as the character concept makes that rather a complicated task, but it shouldn't be necessary to be able to do something with sword and board.
Part of the issue might be a lack of AOE damage. Every other weapon has some kind of AOE attack, but not so with sword and shield.
So... this thread has two purposes.
First, I was hoping for some suggestions as to how I might remedy this. The character is a Templar, but has a particular concept (I won't get into). Think Paladin, and you'll be on the track. At present he's L36.
Second, I'm going to suggest a revamp of this skill set. There's just no way to do any decent damage. Perhaps adjusting the morphs so one provides more dps while the other provides more defense (and taunting).
Anyway, any thoughts are welcome.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »He's now L39. He's wearing the L36 Hundings gear in Medium (5 parts), with the same L33ish Storm Knight Heavy gear (4 parts). Most of that gear is only white quality. His weapons are blue quality, however, though they don't have a set.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »He's now L39. He's wearing the L36 Hundings gear in Medium (5 parts), with the same L33ish Storm Knight Heavy gear (4 parts). Most of that gear is only white quality. His weapons are blue quality, however, though they don't have a set.
There really isn't a reason for running white armor or non-set pieces. At the very least you should craft yourself blue equipment, with purple weapons. Otherwise your damage will suffer no matter what skills you are using.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »I've been agonizing, trying desperately to do something to get my damage level to something reasonable, but nothing I've done seems to help. So, here I am.
The character in question uses sword and board. Now, I know that's a set meant to be more defensive, but the disparity in offense is ridiculously extreme.
For example, I went to a Dolmen and happened to be there when the cultists appeared to begin the anchor bit. I attacked one and was busily stabbing away at him when someone HALF my level came in and obliterated them all in about 3 seconds. I'd been fighting them for about 30 seconds, and hadn't even managed to bring down the one I had been attacking.
As I say, I get it, it's a tanking set, but even low level characters are VASTLY exceeding the damage I'm doing... and I can't seem to do anything to remedy the situation.
At the moment I'm using 5 pieces Hunding's, and 4 Storm Knight (the helmet stubbornly refuses to drop for me). I haven't spent my CP, as the character concept makes that rather a complicated task, but it shouldn't be necessary to be able to do something with sword and board.
Part of the issue might be a lack of AOE damage. Every other weapon has some kind of AOE attack, but not so with sword and shield.
So... this thread has two purposes.
First, I was hoping for some suggestions as to how I might remedy this. The character is a Templar, but has a particular concept (I won't get into). Think Paladin, and you'll be on the track. At present he's L36.
Second, I'm going to suggest a revamp of this skill set. There's just no way to do any decent damage. Perhaps adjusting the morphs so one provides more dps while the other provides more defense (and taunting).
Anyway, any thoughts are welcome.
You have no CP, are using a sword and board, and you wonder why your damage is bad? I mean, I dont think I need to state the obvious here.
Now certainly, you could build for enough damage to take out a dolmen, but you need to make some build choices. Play the way you want doesnt always work out all that well, especially at low level when you dont have a full build.
Best thing you can do, even with a sword/board is spec mostly into magic and spell damage in my opinion. That way you can use sweeps, shards, reflective light, and your execute, without needing to rely on S/B skills for damage. Stamina characters largely rely on on weapon line skills to make up the bulk of their damage, and S/B aint one of those weapons. Only stamina abiliites you really have for damage as a stam player without using a damage focused weapon are Jabs and POTL.
Dont get me wrong, I applaud outside the box thinking, but these types of builds are much easier to pull off with some CP under your belt so you can compensate for any inherent weaknesses in your build. Even when leveling a character that you expect to be a tank or healer, you need to slide the needle towards DPS while at low levels, or it will just be painful.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »He's now L39. He's wearing the L36 Hundings gear in Medium (5 parts), with the same L33ish Storm Knight Heavy gear (4 parts). Most of that gear is only white quality. His weapons are blue quality, however, though they don't have a set.
There really isn't a reason for running white armor or non-set pieces. At the very least you should craft yourself blue equipment, with purple weapons. Otherwise your damage will suffer no matter what skills you are using.
Well... I didn't want to waste the resources upgrading gear I'd be outleveling three or four times a week.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »He's now L39. He's wearing the L36 Hundings gear in Medium (5 parts), with the same L33ish Storm Knight Heavy gear (4 parts). Most of that gear is only white quality. His weapons are blue quality, however, though they don't have a set.
There really isn't a reason for running white armor or non-set pieces. At the very least you should craft yourself blue equipment, with purple weapons. Otherwise your damage will suffer no matter what skills you are using.
Well... I didn't want to waste the resources upgrading gear I'd be outleveling three or four times a week.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »I've been agonizing, trying desperately to do something to get my damage level to something reasonable, but nothing I've done seems to help. So, here I am.
The character in question uses sword and board. Now, I know that's a set meant to be more defensive, but the disparity in offense is ridiculously extreme.
For example, I went to a Dolmen and happened to be there when the cultists appeared to begin the anchor bit. I attacked one and was busily stabbing away at him when someone HALF my level came in and obliterated them all in about 3 seconds. I'd been fighting them for about 30 seconds, and hadn't even managed to bring down the one I had been attacking.
As I say, I get it, it's a tanking set, but even low level characters are VASTLY exceeding the damage I'm doing... and I can't seem to do anything to remedy the situation.
At the moment I'm using 5 pieces Hunding's, and 4 Storm Knight (the helmet stubbornly refuses to drop for me). I haven't spent my CP, as the character concept makes that rather a complicated task, but it shouldn't be necessary to be able to do something with sword and board.
Part of the issue might be a lack of AOE damage. Every other weapon has some kind of AOE attack, but not so with sword and shield.
So... this thread has two purposes.
First, I was hoping for some suggestions as to how I might remedy this. The character is a Templar, but has a particular concept (I won't get into). Think Paladin, and you'll be on the track. At present he's L36.
Second, I'm going to suggest a revamp of this skill set. There's just no way to do any decent damage. Perhaps adjusting the morphs so one provides more dps while the other provides more defense (and taunting).
Anyway, any thoughts are welcome.
You have no CP, are using a sword and board, and you wonder why your damage is bad? I mean, I dont think I need to state the obvious here.
Now certainly, you could build for enough damage to take out a dolmen, but you need to make some build choices. Play the way you want doesnt always work out all that well, especially at low level when you dont have a full build.
Best thing you can do, even with a sword/board is spec mostly into magic and spell damage in my opinion. That way you can use sweeps, shards, reflective light, and your execute, without needing to rely on S/B skills for damage. Stamina characters largely rely on on weapon line skills to make up the bulk of their damage, and S/B aint one of those weapons. Only stamina abiliites you really have for damage as a stam player without using a damage focused weapon are Jabs and POTL.
Dont get me wrong, I applaud outside the box thinking, but these types of builds are much easier to pull off with some CP under your belt so you can compensate for any inherent weaknesses in your build. Even when leveling a character that you expect to be a tank or healer, you need to slide the needle towards DPS while at low levels, or it will just be painful.
So... I'm a little perplexed at the mechanics, then. I was under the impression Max Stamia (ie. the stamina pool itself, as opposed to the stamina stat on the character page) increased weapon damage - that is, both the skills and the light and heavy attacks. Are you suggesting that putting points in Stamina is a waste?
It's proving to be more of an interesting thought experiment, however it turns out.