Official Discussion Thread for "Share Your Talent in the ESO T-shirt Design Contest"

ZOS_GinaBruno · October 2018

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article Share Your Talent in the ESO T-shirt Design Contest. Showcase your creative side and you could see your design featured in the Bethesda Store in this latest contest! Learn how you can submit your entry, vote for your favorite, and acquire the winning t-shirt at a discount simply by taking part in certain in-game events in this article.

16BitForestCat · October 2018

During the week of November 12, we will announce the eight finalists and provide you a link to where you can view and vote on your favorites. You will have until November 19 to get your votes in before we announce the final winners.

Letting the community vote on outside designs? I gotta be blunt here: this is always a terrible idea because it turns into a popularity contest. Every. Single. Time. It's never the best submission that wins. It's always the person who rallied together the biggest group of followers to vote for them that wins.

Futerko · October 2018

"(...) , we will announce the eight finalists and provide you a link to where you can view and vote on your favorites"

1.You will only show t-shirt graphic or graphic + id name ?

2. Participante can send, more then 1 design for contest ?

SantieClaws · October 2018

So may years this one she has sought a t shirt with something sort of khajiit on it.

Make it happen oh talented travellers. Make it finally be so!

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Itacira · October 2018

aaaaah, or ''how to get designs for free and at the same time make the community feel important''

SantieClaws · October 2018

Let this one put it another way.

If no one else enters then this one will submit the very bad self portrait she did in paint and then that will have to win and you will all regret not entering yourselves so the t-shirt was much nicer.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

JohnOfMarkarth · October 2018

16BitForestCat wrote: »

During the week of November 12, we will announce the eight finalists and provide you a link to where you can view and vote on your favorites. You will have until November 19 to get your votes in before we announce the final winners.

Letting the community vote on outside designs? I gotta be blunt here: this is always a terrible idea because it turns into a popularity contest. Every. Single. Time. It's never the best submission that wins. It's always the person who rallied together the biggest group of followers to vote for them that wins.

I agree... its a very... 'popularity over result' game.
its similar to the spamm-scams, where you are asked to 'link this link *blablabla* to gain access to this and that'
but instead its: "click and press vote, for me, to lemme win. cause you better be a friend and i have many!"

SantieClaws · October 2018

Khajiit is not seeing enough enthusiasm.

This one challenges you all to do better than this!

You know you can.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

sketch-1538849056275

Itacira · October 2018

I wish I could be enthusiast but as someone who works in visual media this kind of event is just horrifying. I'm not gatekeeping. I'm actually of the mindset that even amateurs should be paid for their work should they win. So long as the artists are. paid. for. their. work.

Acrolas · October 2018

Itacira wrote: »

I wish I could be enthusiast but as someone who works in visual media this kind of event is just horrifying. I'm not gatekeeping. I'm actually of the mindset that even amateurs should be paid for their work should they win. So long as the artists are. paid. for. their. work.

The compensation is a combination of in-game and tangible goods rewards, as well as being able to create a derivative work for commerce that you wouldn't be able to create outside of this contest no matter how loudly you cried "fair use" or "parody".

I do agree that this type of contest is not suitable for everyone. Even though entrants have to check that you've read the official rules, some people will inevitably not read the official rules.

So, everyone, read the rules before submitting. There's nothing right or wrong within, but you need to understand and be comfortable with the terms because you'll have to stick to them whether you win or don't win.

A few highlights:

(g) you assign and agree to assign to Sponsor all rights, title and interest, including, without limitation, copyright in and to your Entry including Sponsor’s right to modify, amend or otherwise change your Entry;

(h) you acknowledge and agree that the assignment or transfer is exclusive and for the duration of the property rights in all the world;

(i) you agree to forever waive any rights of copyrights, trademark rights, privacy rights and any other legal or moral rights that may preclude Sponsors use of the Entry or require any further permission for Sponsor to use the Entry;

(j) you agree that Sponsor may post your name and hometown on Sponsor’s website and in any and all publicity and advertising for Sponsor, this Contest, or other promotions by Sponsor without any further attribution, notification or compensation to you, except where prohibited by law;

...

For the sole purpose of submitting your Submission for evaluation and potential commercial use, you are hereby granted a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicenseable, revocable, royalty-free license to create a design which includes elements from The Elder Scrolls Online (“Sponsor Design Elements”). You are not granted any rights to use the Sponsor Design Marks for any other purpose. Sponsor Design Marks are defined as elements derived from, adapted from, based on, by direct reference or by inference to any intellectual property of Sponsor, its affiliates or its/their licensors or any variation hereof.

Full text at
https://woobox.com/pbitfz/rules

Itacira · October 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

The compensation is a combination of in-game and tangible goods rewards, as well as being able to create a derivative work for commerce that you wouldn't be able to create outside of this contest no matter how loudly you cried "fair use" or "parody".

The winner's in-game rewards cost nothing to the company, while the later will make money out of their design. Money. The kind that is used to buy real-life food and shelter among other things. They get no percentage of sales. Nothing. Just the pseudo, overstated glory. Which is a lie. It's very much a lie.

Creating a derivative work for commerce is good and all, but the company is actually counting on the dreamy aspect of it in order to get free labor. That is very much worth saying.

SantieClaws · October 2018

Itacira wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

The compensation is a combination of in-game and tangible goods rewards, as well as being able to create a derivative work for commerce that you wouldn't be able to create outside of this contest no matter how loudly you cried "fair use" or "parody".

The winner's in-game rewards cost nothing to the company, while the later will make money out of their design. Money. The kind that is used to buy real-life food and shelter among other things. They get no percentage of sales. Nothing. Just the pseudo, overstated glory. Which is a lie. It's very much a lie.

Creating a derivative work for commerce is good and all, but the company is actually counting on the dreamy aspect of it in order to get free labor. That is very much worth saying.

Indeed this one agrees very much with this sentiment. However it also might be nice for someone who is not working professionally as an artist to have a go for the sake of it. Art for the sake of art a little.

It might also be nice if ZOS agreed a certain percentage, preferably a large one, of any profits made would go to a charity chosen by the winner.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Acrolas · October 2018

Itacira wrote: »

Creating a derivative work for commerce is good and all, but the company is actually counting on the dreamy aspect of it in order to get free labor. That is very much worth saying.

But there's a very important difference between spec work and entering a contest.

There's no contract for spec work, so you don't know what you're agreeing to or if there will be any compensation for the work you preemptively put in.

With a contest, the terms outline how you're being permitted to use assets you normally would not have commercial access to, that you do not own those assets or the final product, and that no royalties are granted; "No compensation will be paid for entering the Contest, for the Sponsor’s use or non0use [sic] of the Entry or for any other reason."

You only get whatever the Contest explicitly awards.

Based on the t-shirt outline, which has it in the store for a little more than a month at a "significantly reduced price" and only with a game-related invite code, makes me feel that they're only charging to cover the cost of the base shirt order and the custom printing. Now, if future promotions somehow require owning this shirt to win, that would be a sore spot.

But by now at least one person has agreed to the official rules, so there's no use advocating for a rule change. So long as people understand the rules, let them enjoy the contest. Because it's a contest. Not employment and not a commercial license.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Since clicking on the hyperlink to the "Official Rules" only gets me this picture of a torch bug:

I'm going to vote for any shirt design that includes Torchy McTorchbug as the new ESO mascot.

(ZOS, you might want to fix the hyperlink)

Itacira · October 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

But by now at least one person has agreed to the official rules, so there's no use advocating for a rule change. So long as people understand the rules, let them enjoy the contest.

"It's legal" is very much not an excuse for shady business practice, because this is what it is. Business. ZOS will make money off a t-shirt design they got for free. End of story?

People who enjoy the contest are in their right. ZOS taking advantage of their enjoyment is in a very dark-grey moral and ethical area.

Acrolas · October 2018

Itacira wrote: »

People who enjoy the contest are in their right. ZOS taking advantage of their enjoyment is in a very dark-grey moral and ethical area.

No.

People who enjoy the contest are exercising a limited and conditional privilege.

If you want to take a different approach, then enforce it within your own intellectual property. It's the intellectual property holder who has the right to license, monetize, or otherwise use or restrict their creations in commerce.

And remember, morality is the perceived rightness or wrongness of something. That's why there are numerous schools of thought, none of them more right than the others. None of them particularly applicable if both parties are knowing and cognizant to the terms of an agreement.

ZOS isn't doing anything wrong.

Itacira · October 2018

I ask Fred to make a drawing and to give me the rights to it. I tell Fred in exchange I'll bake him a pie. Fred eats he pie. I sell copies of the drawing. I make money. Fred feels proud that his work is worth being sold. I never give Fred another pie.

Fred fell for the fallacy that "art is a passion". Fred was had.

I'm making sure Fred is aware. That is my school of thought.

Acrolas · October 2018

Itacira wrote: »

I ask Fred to make a drawing and to give me the rights to it. I tell Fred in exchange I'll bake him a pie. Fred eats he pie. I sell copies of the drawing. I make money. Fred feels proud that his work is worth being sold. I never give Fred another pie.

Fred fell for the fallacy that "art is a passion". Fred was had.

I'm making sure Fred is aware. That is my school of thought.

In your example, Fred is creating an original work, not a derivative work like the one in this contest.
And the verbal contract in your example is an exchange of copyright for a service. You followed through on the service (baking the pie). Fred no longer has ownership so it's no longer "his" work and would thus never expect any extended version of the agreed-upon service.

"Art is a passion" is a phrase within quotation marks, not a fallacy. To be a fallacy you'd have to actually cite a professional and peer-reviewed source claiming it to be. You're probably just paraphrasing Reddit which is full of subjective statements and other assorted opinions.

imcloud9 · October 2018

not very good at are but I think I cracked the real ESO experience

Itacira · October 2018

Aaaaah, don't you love the "reasonable" ones.

First of all, the Fred example is more of a parable than anything else, which I'd expect you to understand. After all I've heard philosopher tend to use those.

Second, whether a work is derivative or not it is still work and thus worthy of being fairly paid for. World of Warcraft did get a movie, and I'm pretty sure the many people who worked on it didn't do it for in-game currency.

Thirdly, in France, ownership of a work can be sold, but not the rights to it. I don't know where you're from, but that's the culture I've grown with, in that an author's rights prevail (or are supposed to) before anything.

Finally, as I said, I work is the visual media. My quote is gained from experience. It may not be reviewed by scientists but it sure has been reviewed by my peers. This is a common experience.

Listen mate, I'm not interested in winning this debate. It appears we're arguing past the point. You won't change my mind, I won't change yours.

This is a callout to the company and an expression of the unbalance of powers. I'm not interested in sterile conversation.

DR4GONFL1 · October 2018

I want this as a t-shirt... haha

Seriously though can't wait to see everyone's designs...

GoonyGoat · October 2018

I'm too poor to work for free

Curukaellos · November 2018

Has anyone had any luck submitting your artwork? I keep trying but all i get is a spinning icon, so not sure if its uploading or not. Do you get a verification email if it submits or how does it work?

Futerko · November 2018

Nat20 wrote: »

Has anyone had any luck submitting your artwork? I keep trying but all i get is a spinning icon, so not sure if its uploading or not. Do you get a verification email if it submits or how does it work?

they contact you only if you chosen as a finalist, if you upload your artwork, you should saw this:

CooksWithoutARecipe · November 2018

Please make the runners-up and honorable mentions available! I'd buy the cute guar and sweet roll ones before the winner. NOT THAT THE WINNER IS BAD...just not my style.

valeriiya · November 2018

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is not seeing enough enthusiasm.

This one challenges you all to do better than this!

You know you can.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

sketch-1538849056275

I would buy that shirt for sure!!

RaddlemanNumber7 · November 2018

Judging by the text on it, the first of the Runners-Up designs is shown upside down in the winner's announcement article.

I prefer the entries that have at least some original art work.

milica · November 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Judging by the text on it, the first of the Runners-Up designs is shown upside down in the winner's announcement article.

I prefer the entries that have at least some original art work.

There is nothing original on that entry, I was drawing this for Inktober on ESO prompt list in October and this morning I saw that someone used it as base for their vector drawing. I cannot even enter the contest since my country is not on the list but he can be one of runner-ups.

Acrolas · November 2018

milica wrote: »

There is nothing original on that entry, I was drawing this for Inktober on ESO prompt list in October and this morning I saw that someone used it as base for their vector drawing.

You drew versions of the three emblematic creatures.

xixian drew a highly stylized version of the ESO Ouroboros. It's not based off of your artwork.