Do you think plating should require half the current amount of grains to refine into a plating?

Imryll · October 2018

No (other reason

No grains, just platings please. Bring JC in line with other professions.

For me, ESO is not competing with other MMOs. It's competing with single-player games. I find it really ironic that the more motifs, pets, etc. they add as grinds the less interested I am in acquiring most of them.

At the same time my character's abilities have become less and less fun to use as their functionality has been nerfed again and again. I do very little group content, so it's not that I want my class to slay other classes with a glance. It's that I want to feel as though I have an effective toolkit, not just a couple abilities that I use all the time because the abilities that used to support interesting and varied approaches aren't reliable enough to bother with. And don't get me started on the tedium of 6-second shields.

The world is beautiful. Many quests are interesting. But it sure seems like those responsible for gameplay are not really concerned that that the systems they design are fun.

Valrien · October 2018

No (other reason

AlienSlof wrote: »

They should do away with grains altogether for tempers/trait mats and bring it into line with the other crafts. the grains thing is stupid and ridiculously grindy. I'm sick of this game's constant insistence on grinding.

The crap they did with the Welkynar motif has made me ignore it altogether. They did not learn from the glass motif fiasco.

Valrien · October 2018

No (other reason

code65536 wrote: »

Changing the grain->plate conversion ratio will screw over anyone who has already converted their grains to plates while people like me who kept their grains as grains and convert only as needed will receive an unfair advantage.

The fair solution would be to increase the drop rates of grains from refinement and allow for the dropping of multiple grains from decon.

Or, do the obvious thing and allow grains to still be refined into plates just like they did with Key Fragments (Dark Ether and such can still open doors...they just wont drop)

Nestor · October 2018

No (other reason

1 Grain makes 1 Plate. Anything else is just ridiculous.

Chrysa1is · October 2018

No (other reason

should be the same as getting dreugh wax, temp and rosin. x% chance for instant chromium plating. same with lesser quality items. refining grains makes jewellery crafting extremely arduous

Recremen · October 2018

Eight grains to refine a plating and then one plating to gold out your gear, just like every single other equipment crafting. Or just scrap chromium grains entirely and make it 8 gold plating to put on par with all the other equipment crafting. It's like that Marvin K Mooney book from Doctor Seus. ZOS Dev Loonies I don't care how, ZOS Dev Loonies fix jewelry now!

starkerealm · October 2018

Worth remembering that the statistical margins between purple and gold jewelry are almost irrelevant.

I mean, if you have a +max mag set bonus on your jewelry, and you increase it to gold, your max magicka will increase by, about, 6. Resource recovery increases by 1, weapon/spell damage increases by, yeah, again, 1.

So, upgrading to gold isn't something you really need to worry about doing unless you just want throw resources around for the shiny goodies.

Mintaka5 · October 2018

Yes (give a suggestion of how much grains should be required to refine into a plating)

3 grains.

You're right the master writs are worthless. I sell writs on traders and every other master writ sells fast, but all the Jewelry ones I am selling are still sitting in the store, even after multiple price markdowns. It's gotten to the point where I am not going to bother with Jewelry crafting writs anymore. A complete waste of my time.

Squeaky_Clean · October 2018

No (other reason

No grains. At all.

Valrien · October 2018

No (other reason

starkerealm wrote: »

Worth remembering that the statistical margins between purple and gold jewelry are almost irrelevant.

I mean, if you have a +max mag set bonus on your jewelry, and you increase it to gold, your max magicka will increase by, about, 6. Resource recovery increases by 1, weapon/spell damage increases by, yeah, again, 1.

So, upgrading to gold isn't something you really need to worry about doing unless you just want throw resources around for the shiny goodies.

This ignores traits. As of live, purple to gold means:
•Robust/Arcane: 30 extra Stam/Mag (90)
•Bloodthirsty: 1% more damage (3%)
•Harmony: 5% stronger synergies (15%)
•Healthy: 33 extra Health (99)
•Infused: 9% stronger jewelry enchants
•Protective: 60 more armor (180)
•Swift: 1% more speed (3%)
•Triune: 10 more Stam/Mag (30 + 30), 11 more Health (33)

Seemingly small, but it is important for some traits such as Infused

51% -> 60% is the difference between 268.78 spell damage and 284.8 spell damage, 7.55 seconds off of a potion cooldown vs. 8 (big difference, as it allows 2 potions to be active with full uptime), etc etc

1-3% more damage during execute is pretty good, though not huge.

You get the idea. Purple -> Gold is always small but not insignificant increases, and there is no reason to lock gold jewelry behind such an arbitrary grind wall when gold weapons and armor are so easily accessible and widely available.

Rake · October 2018

Yes (give a suggestion of how much grains should be required to refine into a plating)

6 gold
4 purple
3 blue
2 green

idk · October 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

You can get 1 plating a day pretty easily. Why should everything be so easy to do in an mmo?

Why should it be? Cause some people sit in front of the screen for 12 hours a day? F logic.

This is not a reason for things to be easier. It is merely a reason those people should have more gold platting's as they clearly spend more time in game, hence have more opportunity.

code65536 wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

These grains are just an annoying waste of bag space.

Just don't make them into plates until you actually need to use them. If you store only grains and not plates, then the bag space consumption is the same. If I need to upgrade a piece of jewelry, I'll refine the exact number of plates on the spot and immediately use them, so I always have zero plates being stored.

Of course, the better solution would be to just get rid of plates. Just upgrade using grains directly: 10, 20, 30, and 40. And adjust drop chances of grains as needed. And if we get rid of plating, we can have a better progression of upgrade costs, too... instead of 10, 20, 30, 40, we could do 5, 10, 20, 40 to make the lower qualities more accessible.

This makes sense.

eso_nya · October 2018

Yes (with current suggested 5 grains should refine into a plating)

better alternative imho would be increasing the dropchance from refining base mats by x5 and increase the amount that drops from writs to 5 aswell. would be on par with the other crafts than.

Ravenayle · October 2018

No (other reason

Get rid of Grains. Just have it like other trade skills where when you refine you get the upgrade materials.

This is also so that it will actually be FEASIBLE to do Master Jewelcrafting writs. Right now you can't give the buggers away, because its FAR more profitable to sell the plating than to do the writ.

Linaleah · October 2018

No (other reason

AlienSlof wrote: »

They should do away with grains altogether for tempers/trait mats and bring it into line with the other crafts. the grains thing is stupid and ridiculously grindy. I'm sick of this game's constant insistence on grinding.

The crap they did with the Welkynar motif has made me ignore it altogether. They did not learn from the glass motif fiasco.

was going to say this, so I'm just going to quote this instead.

phileunderx2 · October 2018

Get rid of grains!!!

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

No (it feels fine)

Not since they cut it back to be in line with the other Crafting.
As well as the fact that ZoS effed up the implantation so badly with completely over performing traits. Now they are covering it up by nerfing everything else. Speed wasn't a problem until Swift. Potion Cooldown reduction is OP. Harmony in a Ball Group is ridiculous. At least most people are only run around with purple level rather than gold.

lagrue · October 2018

No (other reason

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Not since they cut it back to be in line with the other Crafting.
.

Except that really never happened. No matter how you try to approach it.

Let's take an example, we'll choose Metal because it is the one material that can be used the absolute most in a build (11 pieces). We're going to look at this both in context of single item, and full build requirements. Due to the fact that grains share drop rarity with other golden materials like Temper we also need to compare them to eachother, and disregard platings, for the most accurate data.

It's really basic
Temper Single Item: 8 Alloy Required
Temper Total Build: 88 Alloy Required

Jewelery Single Item: 40 Grains Required
Jewelery Total Build: 120 Grains Required

As you can see Jewlery is just shy of 33% more investment per build than any other material is... and five times more per single item. So please enlighten me to how they have cut it back anywhere close to in line with the other crafting materials. Please. The math shows that's a blatant miscalculation or ignorance of the fact on your part.

Requirements in the magnitudes of 133% and 500% more than the most used crafting tree are nowhere near "in line." Even if you halved the plating requirements again, and thereby grain requirements again - it would STILL take more investment than any other crafting tree.

I"ll respect your opinion about right now being enough -but please don't try to drown yourself, and by extension us, in lies to back that opinion up.
.

tmbrinks · October 2018

lagrue wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Not since they cut it back to be in line with the other Crafting.
.

Except that really never happened. No matter how you try to approach it.

Let's take an example, we'll choose Metal because it is the one material that can be used the absolute most in a build (9 pieces). We're going to look at this both in context of single item, and full build requirements. Due to the fact that grains share drop rarity with other golden materials like Temper we also need to compare them to eachother, and disregard platings, for the most accurate data.

It's really basic
Temper Single Item: 8 Alloy Required
Temper Total Build: 72 Alloy Required

Jewelery Single Item: 40 Grains Required
Jewelery Total Build: 120 Grains Required

As you can see Jewlery is just shy of double the investment per build any other material is... and five times more per single item. So please enlighten me to how they have cut it back anywhere close to in line with the other crafting materials. Please. The math shows that's a blatant miscalculation or ignorance of the fact on your part.

Requirements in the magnitudes of 200% and 500% more than the most used crafting tree are nowhere near "in line." Even if you halved the plating requirements again, and thereby grain requirements again - it would STILL take more investment than any other crafting tree.

I"ll respect your opinion about right now being enough -but please don't try to drown yourself, and by extension us, in lies to back that opinion up.
.

Math was shown earlier... it's 136-167% more materials for an entire outfit. Jewelry crafting was meant to be rare. (120/72 = 1.67 x 100% = 167%) and that's the biggest case.

You can use 11 metal in a build (double dual wield), which is where the 136% comes from (120/88 = 1.36 x 100% = 136%)

Thanks for doing the math, and proving the case, once again.

tmbrinks · October 2018

. misquote.

DeadlyRecluse · October 2018

I honestly think it needs to just revert to the standard pattern for improvement mats and drop this silly "refine, get grains, refine grains, get platings" pattern.

Just give up on the facade that jewelry crafting needs to inherently be different from the other crafts. Turn the grains to platings, make the platings drop like normal improvement mats from refining, and bump them back up to 8. They'll still be relatively scarce due to the low node density.

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

No (it feels fine)

I think the amount is alright now. Puts the price to gold out jewelry right in line with buying it from the golden. Id be okay with it being cheaper, sure, but it doesn't need to be.

Edit- to the op's point though something needs to be done about jewelry crafting writs for sure. The amount of vouchers gained simply needs to be brought in line with the cost:voucher ratio of other equipment crafting writs.

lagrue · October 2018

No (other reason

tmbrinks wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Not since they cut it back to be in line with the other Crafting.
.

Except that really never happened. No matter how you try to approach it.

Let's take an example, we'll choose Metal because it is the one material that can be used the absolute most in a build (9 pieces). We're going to look at this both in context of single item, and full build requirements. Due to the fact that grains share drop rarity with other golden materials like Temper we also need to compare them to eachother, and disregard platings, for the most accurate data.

It's really basic
Temper Single Item: 8 Alloy Required
Temper Total Build: 72 Alloy Required

Jewelery Single Item: 40 Grains Required
Jewelery Total Build: 120 Grains Required

As you can see Jewlery is just shy of double the investment per build any other material is... and five times more per single item. So please enlighten me to how they have cut it back anywhere close to in line with the other crafting materials. Please. The math shows that's a blatant miscalculation or ignorance of the fact on your part.

Requirements in the magnitudes of 200% and 500% more than the most used crafting tree are nowhere near "in line." Even if you halved the plating requirements again, and thereby grain requirements again - it would STILL take more investment than any other crafting tree.

I"ll respect your opinion about right now being enough -but please don't try to drown yourself, and by extension us, in lies to back that opinion up.
.

You can use 11 metal in a build (double dual wield), which is where the 136% comes from (120/88 = 1.36 x 100% = 136%)

Thanks for doing the math, and proving the case, once again.

I think the discrepancy here is that I did not account for backbar

I really do hope they fix this, I have golded only one piece since Summerset dropped, and naturally as a Grand Master Crafter, you can imagine I'm used to grinding my nads off for materials. This grind though is wrong.

Maura_Neysa · October 2018

No (it feels fine)

lagrue wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Not since they cut it back to be in line with the other Crafting.
.

Except that really never happened. No matter how you try to approach it.

Let's take an example, we'll choose Metal because it is the one material that can be used the absolute most in a build (11 pieces). We're going to look at this both in context of single item, and full build requirements. Due to the fact that grains share drop rarity with other golden materials like Temper we also need to compare them to eachother, and disregard platings, for the most accurate data.

It's really basic
Temper Single Item: 8 Alloy Required
Temper Total Build: 88 Alloy Required

Jewelery Single Item: 40 Grains Required
Jewelery Total Build: 120 Grains Required

As you can see Jewlery is just shy of 33% more investment per build than any other material is... and five times more per single item. So please enlighten me to how they have cut it back anywhere close to in line with the other crafting materials. Please. The math shows that's a blatant miscalculation or ignorance of the fact on your part.

Requirements in the magnitudes of 133% and 500% more than the most used crafting tree are nowhere near "in line." Even if you halved the plating requirements again, and thereby grain requirements again - it would STILL take more investment than any other crafting tree.

I"ll respect your opinion about right now being enough -but please don't try to drown yourself, and by extension us, in lies to back that opinion up.
.

Jewelry traits are so figging OP that they should be rare. Honestly I wish they would just pull Jewelry crafting back out of the game. It has effed things up amazing.

Tai-Chi · October 2018

No (it feels fine)

Jewellery Crafting was never meant to be easy, so that Gold Jewellery becomes devalued. It should remain exclusive.

My all Crafts Master has enough Gold platings to take care of her own 'families' needs and do some Master Writs as well.

She has all necessary passives in every trade and the necessary CP allocation in the Green Tree. Her dps might be dreadful as a result but her Crafting, Harvesting and Deconstruction prowess is excellent.

We have had no need, so far, to delve into any of our JC Surveys; there are about 130 sitting in a chest. I am sure that there will be a fair few Gold and Purple grains from those, once we get around to cashing them in.

At last there is one Craft that is, in effect, only open to those who are true Masters of the trade.

Skullstachio · October 2018

No (other reason

What they should have done is made it so that refining dust would have a chance of gaining 2-4 Terne/Iridium/Zircon/Chronium Grains upon refining dust.

Jewellery Extraction

Improves the chances of extracting Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful Platings from raw materials. increases the amount of Terne/Iridium/Zircon/Chronium Grains gained from refining dust. (1-2 Grains.)
Greatly improves the chances of extracting Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful Platings from raw materials. Further increases the amount of Terne/Iridium/Zircon/Chronium Grains gained from refining dust. (1-3 Grains.)
Maximizes the chances of extracting Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful Platings from raw materials. Greatly increases the amount of Terne/Iridium/Zircon/Chronium Grains gained from refining dust. (2-4 Grains.)

Vanthras79 · October 2018

Yes (with current suggested 5 grains should refine into a plating)

I'll go half-way and comprimise. Grains okay, make them less to make a plating, and more abundant!

Linaleah · October 2018

No (other reason

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Not since they cut it back to be in line with the other Crafting.
.

Except that really never happened. No matter how you try to approach it.

Let's take an example, we'll choose Metal because it is the one material that can be used the absolute most in a build (11 pieces). We're going to look at this both in context of single item, and full build requirements. Due to the fact that grains share drop rarity with other golden materials like Temper we also need to compare them to eachother, and disregard platings, for the most accurate data.

It's really basic
Temper Single Item: 8 Alloy Required
Temper Total Build: 88 Alloy Required

Jewelery Single Item: 40 Grains Required
Jewelery Total Build: 120 Grains Required

As you can see Jewlery is just shy of 33% more investment per build than any other material is... and five times more per single item. So please enlighten me to how they have cut it back anywhere close to in line with the other crafting materials. Please. The math shows that's a blatant miscalculation or ignorance of the fact on your part.

Requirements in the magnitudes of 133% and 500% more than the most used crafting tree are nowhere near "in line." Even if you halved the plating requirements again, and thereby grain requirements again - it would STILL take more investment than any other crafting tree.

I"ll respect your opinion about right now being enough -but please don't try to drown yourself, and by extension us, in lies to back that opinion up.
.

Jewelry traits are so figging OP that they should be rare. Honestly I wish they would just pull Jewelry crafting back out of the game. It has effed things up amazing.

jewelry traits are 25k ap a month per character at a transmute station (or any other way you like to farm your transmute stones). they are not even remotely rare. its NOT about traits anyways, its about upgrade materials and how they affect BOTH jewelry AND furniture crafting

Linaleah · October 2018

No (other reason

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Jewellery Crafting was never meant to be easy, so that Gold Jewellery becomes devalued. It should remain exclusive.

My all Crafts Master has enough Gold platings to take care of her own 'families' needs and do some Master Writs as well.

She has all necessary passives in every trade and the necessary CP allocation in the Green Tree. Her dps might be dreadful as a result but her Crafting, Harvesting and Deconstruction prowess is excellent.

We have had no need, so far, to delve into any of our JC Surveys; there are about 130 sitting in a chest. I am sure that there will be a fair few Gold and Purple grains from those, once we get around to cashing them in.

At last there is one Craft that is, in effect, only open to those who are true Masters of the trade.

when has purple, blue and green jewelry has EVER been rare? and yet its STILl a major pain thanks to grains, when crafted.

STOP fixating solely on gold, folks. (and even then... WHY? WHY must it be rare?) and there is nothing particularly masterful about leveling jewelry crafting. its actualy faster to both level and research then any other craft.

DanteYoda · October 2018

Yes (give a suggestion of how much grains should be required to refine into a plating)

Yes it should be a quarter not half.