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Could PvE and PvP not be balanced separately?
ThumbtackJake
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So say, you have your abilities. Morphed, unmorphed, doesn't matter. They are what they are in Overlands, Dungeons, Trials, whatever PvE content. Then, when you join a BG or go to Cyrodiil, the numbers would just change to their "PvP Versions". Add a "view PvP numbers" toggle option in the skills menu.
That way neither group would be affected by changes to the other. Is there a reason this can't be done?
That way neither group would be affected by changes to the other. Is there a reason this can't be done?
Long term filthy casual.
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Enemy-of-Coldharbour✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would only be possible (IMO) if PVE and PVP had their own separate skill lines and ran on separate servers.
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Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Battlespirit already does some of that but the balance problem isn't just raw damage/healing numbers.
The pvp/pve balance issues are most pronounced when you have a skill that is essential and balanced in pve but is super op in pvp or visa versa."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Given what little they have said about how the game runs on their end the answer would be no, it’s hard coded into the game for it to be a single unified system.... so no, not realistic (but lord almighty do I wish that it was)Edited by Integral1900 on October 11, 2018 5:34PM0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvE and PvP are already seperated to an extent. They dont need seperate servers unless they would use a different engine for PvP. There are already different skill lines for PvP than for PvE, although you can use them in both areas.
Making skill lines that would only be useable in Cyrodiil is certainly doable. It woild just take some work.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a programmer (Coming up on 40 years of work experience, many of which were spent in the gaming industry) i can tell you that this would not be hard to implement at all.
ZOS is already doing this to some extend (Battlespirit is a more obvious example) and they could easily add more functionality that is unique to either PvP or PvE.
This ain't rocket science (yeah, worked on that too) ...
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FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭They could be but I suspect the development team would have to do some proper coding. And let's be honest, whenever they move outside of their 'reskinning over-priced tat for the cash shop' comfort zone, they tend to make a pig's ear of it.
Plus PvP players would still whine about some infinitesimal detail or other that 'was totally OP and must be nerfed immediately or I am going to cry and cry until I soil myself'.Edited by FlyingSwan on October 11, 2018 5:43PM3 -
DCanadianBacon✭✭✭It is 100% possible to balance them separately, but ZoS shot themselves in the foot by not making it a part of the game from the start of development.
Now, there would be a HUGE amount of work needed to actually do this post launch, especially 4 1/2 years in. Think about it, the now small coding team would have to add DOUBLE the amount of skills that are in the game currently, as well as double the gear sets (if the plan was to make everything perfectly balanced for PvP). They essentially need to create new skills that completely replace the PvE versions for PvP that not only have to work in Cyrodiil, IC, and BG's, but in duels as well (which can happen anywhere). Otherwise, you'd be piling more code to be layered on the old code, and that would kill performance harder than it already is. I suspect Battlespirit already has a large impact on performance and lag as it is.
As you can imagine, that's a huge undertaking for the small team that currently works on balance and gameplay. This really should have been done from the start, but they were naive enough to believe that they could keep things balanced over the years.
I wish they'd balance them separately as well, but honestly, the pragmatic side of me believes ZoS would never invest that much money and that many man-hours just to appease the hard core player base. Lets face it, the majority of casual players that buy a lot of crown store items probably don't even notice balance changes to begin with.
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p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What if they halved the proc chance of proc sets as part of Battle Spirit, since proc sets are being discussed as a "huge problem"?
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Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't know if they could, but it would sure benefit the game. The PVP whiners appear to be driving the nerf train, but PVE is a totally different gaming experience. To apply the same balancing (aka nerfing) to both is just dumb.3 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭They could and they should.
afaik, pve and pvp r like polar opposites atm. pve is dominated by ranged magicka based dot specs, while pvp is dominated by melee stamina based burstspecs.
it looks impossible to try and make the underdog spec more relevant in one area w/o completely effin over the other area. like if u buff burst specs by increasing dmg and reducing cost to make them a valid choice for trials, u'd hilariously overpower them in pvp. if u nerf dotspecs for pve, by reducing dmg and increasing cost, they go extinct in pvp.
pick one: increase player health to trial boss level or decrease trial boss health to player level. (otoh, kinda funny how long some players can stay alive vs a zerg of terribads compared to how fast the same group would burn thru a worldboss xD)3 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭What if they halved the proc chance of proc sets as part of Battle Spirit, since proc sets are being discussed as a "huge problem"?
Or just got rid of them
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MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WoW started doing this two expansions ago and it didn't change a thing. In fact PvP is worse now."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
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p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »
That's nearly every set in the game (we'd have to include sets that proc buffs on the wearer like BSW and Ravager, and all weapon glyphs, since those proc). Say goodbye to all monster sets and the entire Undaunted/Dungeon reward system. We'd be left with pen sets, flat dmg increase sets, and some of the sustain sets. That sounds like it would become really boring and one dimensional.PC/Xbox NA
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That would require ZOS to back down from several years of committment to balancing them together.
It could happen. I don't expect it to.Edited by VaranisArano on October 11, 2018 11:56PM0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No but you could actually separate PvE from PvP entirely and then balance.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on October 11, 2018 11:53PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes any mmorpg can, Guildwars showed it was possible, but most devs aren't interesed in the extra effort required to do it.WoW started doing this two expansions ago and it didn't change a thing. In fact PvP is worse now.
But pve hasn't become worse, that was the whole point..Edited by DanteYoda on October 12, 2018 12:35AM0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Could PvE and PvP not be balanced separately?
They already are
one patch balances around PvE, then the next rebalances around PvP
and so forth"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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firedrgn✭✭✭✭✭They already have passives and skill that only work in cyrodill. So just a few more.0
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Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭balance implies balance,ie buffs and nerfs, not nerf bat across the board
so probably not, 1 concept at a time, 2 is far too much for the poor hamster
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