A warning for ESO? Another 2014 MMO turning off it's servers next month....

zaria · October 2018

siddique wrote: »

A flash game by Kabam called Edgeworld stayed on longer I think. All you had to do in that game was to build your base by purchasing items from the store. They even stopped changing graphics of buildings for higher levels eventually.

If that turd of a game can survive I think ESO has a hell lot of time to go. I love this game.

I stopped playing two years ago because I got married and busy traveling and going out of the house (I know I know), however, I am back and this time on PS4 and I am in love.

Been playing since Morrowind days and I just can't stop playing.

it don't cost much to keep an game on, just keep power on the old server and an part time position for some to look after it.

Wildstar has an publisher who is well known to killing MMO who don't do well rather than having the run as legacy.

Rukia541 · October 2018

[snip] The 'hardcore' playerbase is small and very niche playstyle that most of us don't enjoy anymore because we grew up to have busy lives.

It was ok in its combat, until you got to a battleground or dungeon and its a literal light show.. if you didn't have epilepsy before playing wildstar, well you do now. Bright circles and lines EVERYWHERE. Google one of their raids its insane.

There was just too much wrong with that game, it was also competing with the much more successful GW2 which had similar combat with a better product.

ESO is fine, it is its own thing which has a huge lasting potential. W* was doomed to die for years. I remember logging on a while ago sitting in queue for 2 hours to find out the playerbase was literally in the hundreds. Not thousands, hundreds lol.

[edited for bashing]

LizziAS · October 2018

if you want to know about wildstar, bing it.

see what i did there?

myskyrim26 · October 2018

Every time I read "ESO is dying" thing, I want to inviti the author to Whailing Prison. Plenty of new players come every day - and it is easy to tell a very new player from somebody who creaated another alt.

Bam_Bam · October 2018

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Every time I read "ESO is dying" thing, I want to inviti the author to Whailing Prison. Plenty of new players come every day - and it is easy to tell a very new player from somebody who creaated another alt.

Who said ESO is dying?

russelmmendoza · October 2018

wildstar is that an anime?

Sylosi · October 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

Catering to hardcore raiders was a gamble that failed spectacularly.

Except it was never a gamble they really took, I mean for a supposed game aimed at hardcore raiders the number of raids and the time between new raids being added was laughable, meanwhile they went with other PvE content that was pretty casual in nature and "inspired" by games like GW2, they just ended up with a very confused game that outside of the odd individual element didn't really appeal or cater to many people in a coherent manner.

Bam_Bam · October 2018

russelmmendoza wrote: »

wildstar is that an anime?

Are you thinking of Fist of the North Star?

Danz_Macabre · October 2018

I loved Wildstar for a while. The humor and yes even the graphics. I thought the housing system was great. I remember finding a house item "a discarded bra". For some reason that was just awesome to me. All the random house items you would find throughout the world was great.
I raided for a while as a healer. Every raid I would be so nervous. There were no in combat rezzes so if a key player died, it usually meant a wipe and start over.
For me, I just got tired of doing the same thing. The content just wasn't dropping fast enough. And by fast enough, I mean, any content. There were 2 raids. Now I am kinda sad I didn't see it though and finish that second raid. My guild was stuck on the 4th boss I think it was, and when the guild broke up I just didn't have the desire to find another one.
It's sad. That game could have been so much more.

TheSkwee · October 2018

This is what happens when maintenance takes too long. Stay in school kids...

Imhotep71 · October 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

The console release didnt just help. If it werent for the consoles this game would be gone or on its way out as well.

PC players dont want to admit it but the console release saved this game.

eliisra · October 2018

Only good thing about Wildstar was the housing system though. So hardly a surprise they're shutting down.

ESO's main selling content is story, quests and the lore that comes with it.

Games with high focus on story+quests never really die. Just look at ancient games like Lord Of The Rings Online. Most certainly didn't age well that game. Look so bad it's laughable. Yet it still has a large enough population to keep going, because especially casuals loves to adventure in a gaming version of Middle Earth.

It's the same in ESO. Even if both PvP and competitive leaderboard PvE goes extinct, the game will stay up and pump out new story chapters.

zaria · October 2018

Imhotep71 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

The console release didnt just help. If it werent for the consoles this game would be gone or on its way out as well.

PC players dont want to admit it but the console release saved this game.

Console tripled the player count.
Game would still work without but on an much lower budget.

karekiz · October 2018

Wildstar

Proof that 40 man raiding is indeed a dead genre.

DanteYoda · October 2018

I think the op is saying this as a warning not to mismanage this game as you can see wildstar did and it was ruined, i do not consider these games similar in any way but mistakes and poor communication can destroy a game overnight.

Bam_Bam · October 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

I think the op is saying this as a warning not to mismanage this game as you can see wildstar did and it was ruined, i do not consider these games similar in any way but mistakes and poor communication can destroy a game overnight.

Thank you Dante.

FakeFox · October 2018

There were too many MMOs to even count that were released in 2014 or later and are already shut down. In my opinion ZOS understands very well how modern MMO management functions and this is why ESO is doing well despite its many problems.

Linaleah · October 2018

Imhotep71 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

The console release didnt just help. If it werent for the consoles this game would be gone or on its way out as well.

PC players dont want to admit it but the console release saved this game.

console release helped a lot. but what genuinely saved this game was One Tamriel update. IMO. becasue that marked a genuine turning point of this game being more like Elder scrolls game.

Bam_Bam · October 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

Imhotep71 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

The console release didnt just help. If it werent for the consoles this game would be gone or on its way out as well.

PC players dont want to admit it but the console release saved this game.

console release helped a lot. but what genuinely saved this game was One Tamriel update. IMO. becasue that marked a genuine turning point of this game being more like Elder scrolls game.

Agreed!

SHADOW2KK · October 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

Imhotep71 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

The console release didnt just help. If it werent for the consoles this game would be gone or on its way out as well.

PC players dont want to admit it but the console release saved this game.

console release helped a lot. but what genuinely saved this game was One Tamriel update. IMO. becasue that marked a genuine turning point of this game being more like Elder scrolls game.

Yup, sorry console players

UrQuan · October 2018

Imhotep71 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

The console release didnt just help. If it werent for the consoles this game would be gone or on its way out as well.

PC players dont want to admit it but the console release saved this game.

Not exactly. There are 3 major things that reversed ESO's initial downward trajectory.

The change from a purchase + subscription only model to a buy to play with optional subscription and crown store model
Console release
The One Tamriel update

If none of those had happened ESO might not have survived (or might have survived but only in maintenance mode rather than still getting updates). Take any one or two of those away and the game would likely still be chugging along, but with a far less healthy playerbase and almost certainly much fewer updates.

HowellQagan · October 2018

theyancey wrote: »

I hope that they don't come here.

Yeah, I'm fine with how casual ESO is. You can solo some group content even if you aren't a super good player. We definitely don't need more elitists.

Hateanthem · October 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

A poor excuse for what? I didn't make an excuse for anything.

The number of Twitch or YouTube livestreaming viewers isn't a good indication of population for any MMO.

I would also say that ESO has one of the larger roleplaying player bases. I doubt an RP'er is going to sit there and watch a stream of some random player do PvP and talk crap the entire time. And then there are a lot of people just like me, who think it's ridiculous that people are willing to sit there and watch someone enjoy the game instead of enjoying it themselves.

Sorry. Maybe streamer views are a good indication of population for MOBA's and FPS games, but I just don't see it being a good indicator for an MMO.

I see. So essentially none of this applies to the other mmos that have more viewers than ESO. Especially WoW, a game that actually has millions of players and currently has 10 streamers with more viewers than all of ESO.

Twitch and youtube viewership are the best possible indicatives of a game's popularity. Denial isn't going to change that.

WoW PvP is an E-Sport. That's why there are so many Twitch and YouTube viewers.

It also happens to be the most popular MMO of all time. You cannot come to any conclusions whatsoever about player base size by comparing ESO to WoW. WoW has so many more players than any other MMO, that if you were to compare WoW against anything other game, than you would come to the conclusion that said game would be closing their office doors tomorrow.

zaria · October 2018

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

A poor excuse for what? I didn't make an excuse for anything.

The number of Twitch or YouTube livestreaming viewers isn't a good indication of population for any MMO.

I would also say that ESO has one of the larger roleplaying player bases. I doubt an RP'er is going to sit there and watch a stream of some random player do PvP and talk crap the entire time. And then there are a lot of people just like me, who think it's ridiculous that people are willing to sit there and watch someone enjoy the game instead of enjoying it themselves.

Sorry. Maybe streamer views are a good indication of population for MOBA's and FPS games, but I just don't see it being a good indicator for an MMO.

I see. So essentially none of this applies to the other mmos that have more viewers than ESO. Especially WoW, a game that actually has millions of players and currently has 10 streamers with more viewers than all of ESO.

Twitch and youtube viewership are the best possible indicatives of a game's popularity. Denial isn't going to change that.

WoW PvP is an E-Sport. That's why there are so many Twitch and YouTube viewers.

It also happens to be the most popular MMO of all time. You cannot come to any conclusions whatsoever about player base size by comparing ESO to WoW. WoW has so many more players than any other MMO, that if you were to compare WoW against anything other game, than you would come to the conclusion that said game would be closing their office doors tomorrow.

Yes, e-sport give lots of views, I only watch gaming either if its fun or interesting. Interesting is mostly about mechanics or changes for ESO, fun is people goofing around

Peekachu99 · October 2018

I mean you’re comparing apples and peanuts. ZOS have years of screwups to do and a truckload of IP-attachment and consumer confidence to waste before ESO is ever in danger of closure. One of the reasons I play ESO is because I’m convinced it will be around for good while. No indicators would suggest otherwise.

srfrogg23 · October 2018

Lake wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

A poor excuse for what? I didn't make an excuse for anything.

The number of Twitch or YouTube livestreaming viewers isn't a good indication of population for any MMO.

I would also say that ESO has one of the larger roleplaying player bases. I doubt an RP'er is going to sit there and watch a stream of some random player do PvP and talk crap the entire time. And then there are a lot of people just like me, who think it's ridiculous that people are willing to sit there and watch someone enjoy the game instead of enjoying it themselves.

Sorry. Maybe streamer views are a good indication of population for MOBA's and FPS games, but I just don't see it being a good indicator for an MMO.

I see. So essentially none of this applies to the other mmos that have more viewers than ESO. Especially WoW, a game that actually has millions of players and currently has 10 streamers with more viewers than all of ESO.

Twitch and youtube viewership are the best possible indicatives of a game's popularity. Denial isn't going to change that.

I'm on Twitch all the time.

If you went by Twitch popularity (a terrible gauge), you'd think the only active MMO was World of Warcraft.

I mean, look at the average viewership on Twitch for traditional MMOs throughout October:

WoW - 43k
OG Runescape - 6.3k
Black Desert - 3.1k
Lineage II - 2.9k
MapleStory 2 - 2.4k
FFXIV - 1.4k
ESO - 1.4k
Tibia - 1.2k
World of Warships - 800
Runescape 2+ - 700
GW2 - 550

Makes it look like every other MMO not called WoW should pack it up, including FFXIV & GW2.

Well, some games are more fun to watch than they are to play. I agree. Twitch viewership is a terrible gauge.

I personally prefer to play ESO as opposed to watching it. WoW bored the heck out of me when I played it, but I'll watch someone play occasionally.

At the end of the day, Zos gets my money, not Blizzard. I'm not going to pay Blizzard just to watch someone else play WoW on Twitch.

Bam_Bam · October 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I mean you’re comparing apples and peanuts. ZOS have years of screwups to do and a truckload of IP-attachment and consumer confidence to waste before ESO is ever in danger of closure. One of the reasons I play ESO is because I’m convinced it will be around for good while. No indicators would suggest otherwise.

Are you the same Peekachu who used to PvP in The Secret World??

Rain_Greyraven · October 2018

Zenimax has already addressed this.

See, unlike Carbine the developer of Wildlysucks, Zenimax was intellegent enough not to promote ESO as a love letter to the elitism of the burning crusade players, they also didn't double down telling "Filthy Casuals" they basically weren't wanted in the game, then after crashing and burning financially start an ass-kissing campaign trying to win over that demographic (because they are the ones who actually have things like jobs and money) So I don't think Zenimax needs to worry at all....they just aren't that incredibly stupid.

However the complete failures that created Wildstar should worry about their futures in the industry, because they have proven just how out of touch they are with reality.

olsborg wrote: »

ESO-PvE might be fine. ESO-PvP however is looking more grim by every month that goes by. This is just my own experience (and my guildies) that there are fewer and fewer players in pvp and the only time that its full is when theres also so much lagg that you have no option, but to log out.

Zenimax realizes that focusing on PVP as end game was a mistake, they have done a very good job playing to the PVE TES base and making the very intelligent move of making the game basically Skyrim with friends.

The writing's on the wall that Camelot unchained will be the big PVP MMO and will attract most of that base, PVP will become more and more of an afterthought for ESO and I expect them to just switch to a, TES Arenaesque traveling gladiator system with 2v2 and 4v4 battles instead of huge sieges, The imperial city will probably be repurposed to a very large PVE expansion in the near future.

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

MMO's come and go.

Some stay on life support for extended periods.

[snip]

I'll just explain a little thing. ESO was a great launch, it was playable and stable on Day 1. Wow still isn't playable or stable on Day1 of expansion (and patches). If you raided in Wow, you mostly cancelled raids for the first week of a content patch as the game was unstable, the servers would crash and you would be wasting your time. It was mostly the same in most other MMO's... launches and major patches are not ready to play day1. Eso has been ready to play day1, to a degree that's actually quite impressive.

Now I'm not saying bug free or glitch free... Those are things that rarely exist in computer gaming. But ESO vanilla was both playable and stable Day -5 (early access), Day1, Patch1 day1, Every expansion day 1, Every chapter day 1. Some might have forgotten the old problems of other MMO's with instability or servers crashing and/or being down for extended periods during launch/patches/expansions. ESO has been exemplary at this.

Perfection isn't reality. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

rynth · October 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

The hype around Wildstar was pretty significant when it was released and I remember a big bunch of various guildies quitting ESO to switch to Wildstar.

But next month, it is shutting down. Hopefully, ESO will scoop up some of the departing players?

But I would encourage ZoS to take note of how fast things can go bottoms up....

https://www.pcgamer.com/wildstar-is-shutting-down-on-november-28-carbine-plans-special-events-to-see-it-off/

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-07-wildstar-developer-carbine-studios-is-shutting-down

https://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2018-09-26-wildstar-signing-off-november-28/

There is no comparison to the two Wildstar failed from the get go and in a few months went F2P and then continued to struggle downward. Hell even TOR is going on and that game sucked from the start only thing it had was that it was Star Wars and could use and abuse a solid fan base. And ESO is nothing like either game and is still going strong with population, content, and changes.