A warning for ESO? Another 2014 MMO turning off it's servers next month....

UrQuan · October 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

@UrQuan

I also believe Wildstar was released only through Steam(???).

ESO launched on PC without steam way before it was on steam so those numbers arent reallly comparable either.
THe ESO playerbase on PC is much bigger than that.

Wildstar launched in 2014 but wasn't available on Steam until some time in 2016, so theoretically it should be somewhat comparable to ESO in that respect. Like I said in my comparison though, I was intentionally being very very favourable to Wildstar while being much less favourable to ESO, just to make the point that no matter how you slice it ESO is vastly more popular than Wildstar.

Sevn · October 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

A poor excuse for what? I didn't make an excuse for anything.

The number of Twitch or YouTube livestreaming viewers isn't a good indication of population for any MMO.

I would also say that ESO has one of the larger roleplaying player bases. I doubt an RP'er is going to sit there and watch a stream of some random player do PvP and talk crap the entire time. And then there are a lot of people just like me, who think it's ridiculous that people are willing to sit there and watch someone enjoy the game instead of enjoying it themselves.

Sorry. Maybe streamer views are a good indication of population for MOBA's and FPS games, but I just don't see it being a good indicator for an MMO.

I see. So essentially none of this applies to the other mmos that have more viewers than ESO. Especially WoW, a game that actually has millions of players and currently has 10 streamers with more viewers than all of ESO.

Twitch and youtube viewership are the best possible indicatives of a game's popularity. Denial isn't going to change that.

It's not denial, you are just misinformed. What makes ESO different is the fact it is an ELDER SCROLLS game 1st, you know a series that is well known for awesome ROLEPLAYING. The majority of ESO'S players aren't here for pvp, which is the content most streamed on those outlets.

Very few casual players, the bulk of ESO, are interested in watching some tryhard take on other players over and over. For what? Boring as all hell, and I like pvp, just not much of a fan of ESO'S attempt at it, too imbalanced around gear and affects PvE way more than it should. I'd watch a trial run on the same dungeon for the umpteenth time than watch a pvp stream.

That's what makes ESO different. As pointed out, going off of your gauge and those stats, WoW is the only MMO doing well, which we know for a fact to be false.

More on topic- ESO isn't overly focused on the hardcore and while there is some "hardcore" content it's a fraction of the rest, by design. Despite the repeated complaints about overland being too easy I believe Zos has the data to fully determine what is popular and what is not. I hope those players find a replacement, but not ESO. Last thing we need is more hardcore players asking for changes the vast majority aren't interested in, by the numbers.

Bhaal5 · October 2018

Isnt eso turning its servers off, one patch at a time?

jainiadral · October 2018

Wildstar and ESO have absolutely nothing in common aside from the year they were published and their overall genre (MMORPG).

I tried Wildstar right after it went F2P and while it had fun and whimsical art, the overall experience was jarring and painful. The game is constantly flashing numbers and effects in your face, the quests are boring fetch junk, and the narrator is always shouting right in your ear. Events and challenges pop at you every two seconds as you're trying to complete quests, and most of them used to be scaled for groups in a world where you're all alone. I lasted about three hours before I got stressed out.
It's a shame because I love sci-fi and whimsy is always entertaining.

Wildstar is a game of pure adrenaline, not exploration and immersion. ESO's the exact opposite.

stojekarcub18_ESO · October 2018

Wildstar was awful from the beginning...calling it now, Black Desert will be next... ESO is safe, it has no real competition in this niche.

stojekarcub18_ESO · October 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

Let it be known that a lot of players play the game, instead of watching youtube videos of the game, or twitch feeds of the game. Games ARE meant to be played, after all.

starkerealm · October 2018

Remember when you couldn't swing a dead cat in general without hitting six "Wildstar will kill ESO" threads? Me neither, what kind of a sicko sings dead cats around on forum boards? But, yeah, back in 2014, there were a ton of threads proclaiming that Wildstar would decimate ESO when it launched that fall. Which, didn't really happen.

Wildstar had some really great ideas mixed in, but the game, on a whole, did not measure up. It wanted to be a casual game for hardcore raiders.

My sympathy to the developers that spent years of their life making that world only to see players respond with a resounding, "meh." But, my understanding is that Wildstar never found its feet, and as a result couldn't get their new content out on schedule. No new content, no reason to stick around, and down it went.

Linaleah · October 2018

my personal measure of how well the MMO is doing is looking at how active addon community is. obviously, this doesn't apply to every MMO, since not every MMO has addons, but it does apply to the games that do.

by that yardstick - ESO is doing VERY well. addons get updated quickly, there are usually multiple options for an addon that has similar functionality, even Juggernaut like master merchant has alternative (and no, I'm not talking about TTC, though it does somewhat count)

meanwhile... wildstar addons, haven't updated in ages and selection is very... very... bad.

by those same metrics.... Secret world legends need to really pick up their game, becasue while they are not doing as badly as wildstar, their community is also floundering.

last but not least, and this one is also pretty important. even games that have no addons - are subject to this. general community resources. builds, etc. ESO might not have the resources of wowhead, but... we do have multiple websites dedicated to variety of content tracking and creation - which get UPDATED regularly as well. wildstar...... kinda went quiet a while ago and never recovered.

as for twitch... well.. ZoS is trying to break into that what with official streamers and all that crap, though honestly ZoS... you would have better success if twitch crate drops were guaranteed instead of a very low chance. IMO. still won't be anywhere near the top, but... it would certainly improve views.

RD065 · October 2018

I hated that game.

Arato · October 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

The hype around Wildstar was pretty significant when it was released and I remember a big bunch of various guildies quitting ESO to switch to Wildstar.

But next month, it is shutting down. Hopefully, ESO will scoop up some of the departing players?

But I would encourage ZoS to take note of how fast things can go bottoms up....

https://www.pcgamer.com/wildstar-is-shutting-down-on-november-28-carbine-plans-special-events-to-see-it-off/

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-07-wildstar-developer-carbine-studios-is-shutting-down

https://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2018-09-26-wildstar-signing-off-november-28/

Wildstar and ESO both had fairly bad launches. ESO was saved by a change in business model and launch on consoles. Wildstar never had such a "save" It went F2P and never bounced back. Wildstar's losses for a long time were being covered by revenue from GW2. Wildstar was a mess from the getgo, they tried to capitalize on nostalgia from TBC WoW but they picked the wrong things to transplant into the game like long attunement quests that nobody liked. It was a mess. I remember trying it in open beta and deleting it 5 hours later, fastest I've ever uninstalled an MMO until I tried Skyforge which lasted about as long.

I don't think ESO is in the same boat by a longshot.

Now when the next generation of consoles comes out and ESO loses its console playerbase? Then we might worry.

Arato · October 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

With the exception of arena style PVP, MMO's make very poor streaming/esports games. Yes some people do stream PVE , but I couldn't fathom for the life of me anyone who would ever bother watching it. It's boring to watch.

Perwulf · October 2018

You're late.

Nova Sky · October 2018

All I remember about Wildstar is that it was touted as the first ESO killer.

Well. How about that?

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · October 2018

I for one won't be hoping to another MMO.
As I do not like MMOs.

I started playing this game as elder elder scrolls game. Soon I found out it sucked arse at being an elder scrolls game.
I now play this game jut for its PvP, and cuz I'm sort of addicted to its build crafting.

Kayira · October 2018

What is really ironic is when ESO first came out and Wildstar was released shortly after, the entire Forum went on a rampage how Wildstar will destroy ESO and make ESO shut down...

MJallday · October 2018

never heard of Wildstar. even the name sounds ****

Radinyn · October 2018

ESO and BDO killed Wildstar.

Alcast · October 2018

ESO is in the top 3 MMOs....and they make so much profit with this game atm...why would it go bottoms up so soon, ZOS figured out a very good business model

SHADOW2KK · October 2018

Shrugs, no loss

Bam_Bam · October 2018

It's good to hear the love and support for the game. The thread was intended to get a discussion going - Mission accomplished!

Maybe now, people will stop banging on about balance and performance.

Mayrael · October 2018

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

A poor excuse for what? I didn't make an excuse for anything.

The number of Twitch or YouTube livestreaming viewers isn't a good indication of population for any MMO.

I would also say that ESO has one of the larger roleplaying player bases. I doubt an RP'er is going to sit there and watch a stream of some random player do PvP and talk crap the entire time. And then there are a lot of people just like me, who think it's ridiculous that people are willing to sit there and watch someone enjoy the game instead of enjoying it themselves.

Sorry. Maybe streamer views are a good indication of population for MOBA's and FPS games, but I just don't see it being a good indicator for an MMO.

So much this

I watch only game trailers, before launch gameplays etc. just to decide am I willing to buy a game or not. Everything else is just a waste of time IMHO.

FatFred · October 2018

mateosalvaje wrote: »

I've never heard of that game.

+65535， I've never heard of that game

GreenhaloX · October 2018

I'm surprise this thread is still running. Ha ha. I never heard of this Wildstar because it is not on PS4. Hence, I'm not a PC gamer. I probably would not touch ESO if it wasn't available to PS4. ESO is still thriving because it also has a huge following on consoles. Although, we have the reoccurring bugs, glitches and crashes, the game does improve. Sure there are certain nerfing that makes my and many other butts sore; however, the art, graphic and characters, and combat (at least for PvE) are just so vivid and enjoyable.

Overall, ESO is just an amazing MMO. I have never been on a single game this long in all my life. There are still many single player games I yet to get into, but cannot yet because there are so many things to do; particularly with leveling the toons in so many aspects. Sure, whenever ESO implode within sometimes in the future, then yeah, I would have time to get into those other games. Perhaps, they will have ESO 6 out by then.

Elsonso · October 2018

Arato wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Why is this a warning for Eso ? Eso has millions of players .

I seriously doubt that, just based on the low viewership both on twitch and youtube. Still ESO has a healthy population, i don't see it going away any time soon.

I seriously doubt that many ESO players use their time to watch other people play the video game instead of playing it themselves.

That's just a poor excuse. What makes ESO players different than players of any other game?

With the exception of arena style PVP, MMO's make very poor streaming/esports games. Yes some people do stream PVE , but I couldn't fathom for the life of me anyone who would ever bother watching it. It's boring to watch.

People will watch people play ESO doing stuff in the game that interests them. That could be PVP, but also PVE trials, dungeons, houses, guild stuff, achievements, etc. It can sometimes be just to hang out with people that are interested in the same things. It does not have to be exciting and action packed.

MJallday · October 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

It's good to hear the love and support for the game. The thread was intended to get a discussion going - Mission accomplished!

Maybe now, people will stop banging on about balance and performance.

haahahahaahaha

no

killahsin · October 2018

this is not a warning for ESO, ESO is doing extremely, extremely well.

RavenSworn · October 2018

Wildstar... Where do I start.

Wildstar came with much fanfare and was touted to be the wow killer. It had similar graphic style and game systems, from the attunements to the questing hubs. Wildstar also had one of the best of not the best housing systems ingame of any mmo. The creations of some of the houses ingame still astounds me till this day.

The combat system was more akin to rift, though the animations really reminded me of wow. The dungeon mechanics are also better than usual, telegraphs and cursor locked aim was something new, given how popular it is with ex wow players. Tab targeting seems dead with wildstar, eso and a few others using cursor locked.

But unfortunately, they were lacking in many other avenues. The storyline, while engaging, had too many side fetch and kill quest. If it's one thing about new ip, it's that you need an engaging storyline first, before anything else. You need to hook the player into the story with a more fleshed out background than what wildstar was.

The faction system was also not as good as it should be. This plays in the storyline part. People, no matter if they had wanted to play the bad guy, won't play a faction that promotes wanton destruction and outright imperialism. There has to be a 'good guy with bad actions' vs a 'bad guy with good intentions'. That gray area in a story promotes dividing opinions and henceforth 'sides'. That what makes eso so much better. The factions aren't black and white, you can't say that the Pact has more right than the dominion or if the covenant were to rule tamriel in a much better fashion.

Catering to hardcore raiders was a gamble that failed spectacularly. The devs had the right idea; grab a niche, core part of what makes an mmo excellent and make it the main reason. Problem was, they didn't account for the change in gamers attitude for 40man raids. They should have included smaller sized raids, perhaps, even 10-20man dungeons / raids that might have helped alleviate the problem. Focusing on ex wow raiders, who were getting on to their late 20s and early 30s, meant that these players simply don't have that much time to raid or to wait for the group to be set up for 40mans. Added to the fact that the newer players do not have the patience as well... It was a failed experiment imo.

Both eso and wildstar were going down after a year of launch but what eso had that wildstar didn't was ip support, a total revamp of their game ideals (not once but twice) and the fact that eso was much more friendlier to casuals than wildstar was. The console release, while it did helped, would not have taken off had not the game reinvent itself.

How carbine handled their staff is beyond me. It might have alluded to how the game will end up in the future but honestly, if a game is good enough, it can hold its own, with or without management support.

I've no issues with ZoS other than being incompetent in balancing pvp and pve but truthfully, the content has always been constant and engaging. And that's fine with me and the rest of the hundreds of players still playing this game.

DLM · October 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Wildstar was your hardcore MMO designed for hardcore players by a bunch of ex Blizzard employees who wanted anything BUT another wow.

I remember the release of Wildstar. I swear it was meant to be another messiah in the MMO genre for those who wanted WoW Vanilla back and I was labelled a hater only for saying that it couldn't work in 2014. Players have changed, the kids that were playing WoW back in the days have grown up and no longer have the time to farm hardcore raids and the new generation is much more into casual gaming.

They simply had their target wrong, if you aim your game to hardcore gamers you can only be a niche product today.

Nicko_Lps · October 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

The hype around Wildstar was pretty significant when it was released and I remember a big bunch of various guildies quitting ESO to switch to Wildstar.

But next month, it is shutting down. Hopefully, ESO will scoop up some of the departing players?

But I would encourage ZoS to take note of how fast things can go bottoms up....

https://www.pcgamer.com/wildstar-is-shutting-down-on-november-28-carbine-plans-special-events-to-see-it-off/

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-07-wildstar-developer-carbine-studios-is-shutting-down

https://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2018-09-26-wildstar-signing-off-november-28/

People left ESO becuase its laggy buggy and balanced according to forum [snip].

The only thing my FriendList tells me is people leaving ESO when murkmire hits simply becuase PvP'ers had enough from that tank zergs+smallscales running around spamming heals to each other and 5-6 focused dawnbreakers.

ZoS works for Blizzard, im pretty sure of it since they constantly send players back to WoW

[edited for baiting]

olsborg · October 2018

ESO-PvE might be fine. ESO-PvP however is looking more grim by every month that goes by. This is just my own experience (and my guildies) that there are fewer and fewer players in pvp and the only time that its full is when theres also so much lagg that you have no option, but to log out.