Will we ever see Maelstrom weapon alternatives? (It's 2018.....)

shiningforce · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

ImmortalCX wrote: »

shiningforce wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

THE WAY THE QUESTION WAS WORDED is designed to give the "yes" column more support.

The second option is that there should NEVER be any weapons that are greater power than VMA weapons. The question should have read "there should not be an alternate way to obtain VMA weapons."

Those are different things. To say that there should never be more powerful weapons than VMA imposes a limiting view on the future of the game. Maybe three or five years from now, something more powerful should be introduced. And of course most rational minded people would vote this way. But it doesn't address the question you asked.

The question you actually asked is about making VMA weapons obtainable through other sources. I think in the virtual NOW, in the forseeable future, VMA weapons should be most powerful.

Obviously a third alternative to your poll (that you forgot to ask) is that a more powerful weapon becomes available, but that you have to complete a new arena which is 5x harder than VMA. I'm pretty sure this is not what you want. I mean what good is making even more powerful weapons if the content is even harder?

If they make an arena that is 5x harder than VMA, that only the most elite players can achieve, then yes, there should be more powerful weapons.

You're thinking way to much into this..... It is a simple question, not a conspiracy theory.

I also never mention for "alternative ways to obtain VMA weapons". Try Alternative weapons just as good away from VMA weapons. Alternative does not mean the exact same.

No i did not say nor mean to get other Vma weapons from other sources. That was never the intent of this thread, if you read the other comments you would understand that. I said what was intended, no need to change my meaning and re-word it for me.

It has already been years with VmA, again I am looking towards wanting to see newer weapons that have the same power as VmA weapons and obtaining them with the same difficulty as VmA.

If I could sum up what you are asking, its to have weapons of the same power level as VMA through other sources. Yet the actual question was worded differently. Why can't people just say what they mean?

VMA is the only "enforced" difficult content in the game. Killing world bosses may be similar difficulty but you can group with others. Same with trials. If they made top-tier weapons available through trials, then everyone would have them farmed within a week, and most of those people would be carried.

My answer to you question is that if there are alternate weapons of equal or greater power, they need to be gated by content of equal or greater difficulty.

To your last answer first. There are only 2 pages in this thread thus far and I have already answered multiple times that Yes, I do agree with you; i have actually said this many times. To get equivalent gear/weapons it would have to be as hard as VmA.

I did say what I meant..... your perception may be different as comprehension is not always a grasped concept. Inquiring without asssuming....You're coming here only reading the first OP and responding. Comments within threads are meant to be read not skipped over. If you were to purchase a car, would you only read the article in the newspaper and purchase or would you go to the car lot and inquire more before making a decision?

People would like more harder content with gear other than to just achieve VmA, which many have Many Many...times. Again, been years would like more content with equivalent gear and not just more CP every other patch. Eventually if this keeps up VmA isnt even going to be worth it as the more CP the easier VmA gets.

" its to have weapons of the same power level as VMA through other sources" yes on this. which are just as hard as VmA.

shiningforce · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

ImmortalCX wrote: »

BTW, I haven't completed VMA yet, but its the carrot that keeps me playing and developing my character. At some point I will have enough CP / skill / gear that I will be able to farm it for my bow.

If they made an equivalent bow available through a trial, I guarantee I'd have it already (unless entry to that trial was "gated" by ownership of the VMA weapon).

Now that I think of it, its probably best that the most powerful weapons are outside of trials or else there would be more "carry politics" with people paying/maneuvering for runs to get the best gear.

But if you are just waiting for CP to go up to achieve farming the Bow in Maelstrom, you are not truly using skill at that point. Well not as much as originally intended; for that matter cp has gone up to the point where Maelstrom is easier and wasn't intended to be this easy as it is now even.

ImmortalCX · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

What % ofthe player base can complete VMA?

Videos I've watched claim it is much easier for mag classes.

shiningforce wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

BTW, I haven't completed VMA yet, but its the carrot that keeps me playing and developing my character. At some point I will have enough CP / skill / gear that I will be able to farm it for my bow.

If they made an equivalent bow available through a trial, I guarantee I'd have it already (unless entry to that trial was "gated" by ownership of the VMA weapon).

Now that I think of it, its probably best that the most powerful weapons are outside of trials or else there would be more "carry politics" with people paying/maneuvering for runs to get the best gear.

But if you are just waiting for CP to go up to achieve farming the Bow in Maelstrom, you are not truly using skill at that point. Well not as much as originally intended; for that matter cp has gone up to the point where Maelstrom is easier and wasn't intended to be this easy as it is now even.

I last tried VMA at CP290 as a Stamblade. It was too challenging for my gear/skill at the time. I'm at CP450 now and even with the same gear, the extra CP points in crit have increased my damage output and crit-proc survivability. Noticably. I also have a greater understanding of class abilities and gear setups.

My understanding is that it's much easier with shield-based toons and toons with reliable self heals.

I expect it will be a good challenge now, but I haven't wanted/needed to devote 20+ hours to learning it, then farming it. But neither do I demand another source of "same difficulty" for an equivalent weapon. I know its there if I put in the time/effort. Based on how my damage and survivability have increased, I'm more confident it can be done now. Before I just didn't have the sustain.

If someone is demanding another source of "equal difficulty", that means if they cant do VMA, then they won't be able to do the new challenge either. (Unless of course its a "different, equal difficulty" you are seeking, in which case its not the same difficulty.

shiningforce · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

shiningforce wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

BTW, I haven't completed VMA yet, but its the carrot that keeps me playing and developing my character. At some point I will have enough CP / skill / gear that I will be able to farm it for my bow.

If they made an equivalent bow available through a trial, I guarantee I'd have it already (unless entry to that trial was "gated" by ownership of the VMA weapon).

Now that I think of it, its probably best that the most powerful weapons are outside of trials or else there would be more "carry politics" with people paying/maneuvering for runs to get the best gear.

But if you are just waiting for CP to go up to achieve farming the Bow in Maelstrom, you are not truly using skill at that point.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I had a whole thread relating to this once upon a time. So the biggest argument against alternatives being thrown around here is the classic "if you aren't good enough to get VMA weapons, you don't need them". This is an incredibly false statement, for a number of reasons.

1) This game is not a solo game. VMA makes you really good in a solo environment, but it is the only endgame solo anything, trial dungeon or arena.

2) VMA does not teach you how to specialize in and excel at a certain role, which is a cornerstone of the MMO. It's why MMO exist, and why they're not just single player games. You work TOGETHER to accomplish a goal that cannot be accomplished alone.

3) This is anecdotal, but I run trials in pug / unorganized guild groups a lot. Many of those players have VMA clears. I've only cleared VMA a few times and struggle with it. In terms of overall trial performance (positioning correctly, doing mechanics, etc), I'm better than most of them. So I vehemently disagree with the notion that VMA skill strongly correlates to trial aptitude.

If I had to guess, most of the "VMA means you're good at the game" crowd is the same group who obsesses over Dark Souls and Bloodborne as the gospel on what makes a game good. They just want what they're familiar with, so they treat VMA as the highest honor and think of group content as an extension of it. Except it's not.

Thank you for your reply!

Yes I agree, now that you even mention it i do find it rather strange that in a multiplayer experience the "Best players" most people shout out you can be is finishing vMaelstrom. I have read a lot on here and other areas of the forums as well how people dont want great gear to drop from Hard move vet trials, they want it kept in Maelstrom but that is not the point of an MMO, its to work together to achieve such gear/items. Well said.

DjMuscleboy02 · October 2018

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I had a whole thread relating to this once upon a time. So the biggest argument against alternatives being thrown around here is the classic "if you aren't good enough to get VMA weapons, you don't need them". This is an incredibly false statement, for a number of reasons.

1) This game is not a solo game. VMA makes you really good in a solo environment, but it is the only endgame solo anything, trial dungeon or arena.

2) VMA does not teach you how to specialize in and excel at a certain role, which is a cornerstone of the MMO. It's why MMO exist, and why they're not just single player games. You work TOGETHER to accomplish a goal that cannot be accomplished alone.

3) This is anecdotal, but I run trials in pug / unorganized guild groups a lot. Many of those players have VMA clears. I've only cleared VMA a few times and struggle with it. In terms of overall trial performance (positioning correctly, doing mechanics, etc), I'm better than most of them. So I vehemently disagree with the notion that VMA skill strongly correlates to trial aptitude.

If I had to guess, most of the "VMA means you're good at the game" crowd is the same group who obsesses over Dark Souls and Bloodborne as the gospel on what makes a game good. They just want what they're familiar with, so they treat VMA as the highest honor and think of group content as an extension of it. Except it's not.

I disagree with this entirely. I have NEVER met a player who has top VMA scores that is unable to perform in an end game raid environment given the opportunity. VMA is an extremely good indicator whether a person has the ability to perform without support, and once given that support in raid they should only get better.

On the flip side of that, you do not have to be a VMA sweat to be good at the game. There are plenty of phenomenal players who don't have huge VMA scores. However, those players can most likely easily get completes under an hour in VMA and, given some time, would be able to put up very good scores.

So let me be clear. If you cannot beat VMA then, and no offense, you are not as good as you think you are. It's that simple. However, if you cannot beat VMA, then you do not NEED the weapons. Yes, they do make a big difference, but they are not necessary for the content you will be doing. In fact, you can do fine without VMA weapons in any content but the lack of VMA weapons demonstrates that you may not have the ability to perform under certain conditions.

Valrien · October 2018

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I had a whole thread relating to this once upon a time. So the biggest argument against alternatives being thrown around here is the classic "if you aren't good enough to get VMA weapons, you don't need them". This is an incredibly false statement, for a number of reasons.

1) This game is not a solo game. VMA makes you really good in a solo environment, but it is the only endgame solo anything, trial dungeon or arena.

2) VMA does not teach you how to specialize in and excel at a certain role, which is a cornerstone of the MMO. It's why MMO exist, and why they're not just single player games. You work TOGETHER to accomplish a goal that cannot be accomplished alone.

3) This is anecdotal, but I run trials in pug / unorganized guild groups a lot. Many of those players have VMA clears. I've only cleared VMA a few times and struggle with it. In terms of overall trial performance (positioning correctly, doing mechanics, etc), I'm better than most of them. So I vehemently disagree with the notion that VMA skill strongly correlates to trial aptitude.

If I had to guess, most of the "VMA means you're good at the game" crowd is the same group who obsesses over Dark Souls and Bloodborne as the gospel on what makes a game good. They just want what they're familiar with, so they treat VMA as the highest honor and think of group content as an extension of it. Except it's not.

Woah hey. Let's not insult Dark Souls here, and especially Bloodborne.

Specifically when both are way better than ESO

ImmortalCX · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

shiningforce wrote: »

Yes I agree, now that you even mention it i do find it rather strange that in a multiplayer experience the "Best players" most people shout out you can be is finishing vMaelstrom. I have read a lot on here and other areas of the forums as well how people dont want great gear to drop from Hard move vet trials, they want it kept in Maelstrom but that is not the point of an MMO, its to work together to achieve such gear/items. Well said.

What do you mean the point is "to work together to achieve such gear/items."

Do you realize how many things are done solo in this game? The leveling experience is solo. All of crafting is solo. 98% of the experience is solo.

The "this is an MMO, raids >> everything else" mentailty would diminish the ESO experience. One of the things many people like about ESO is that you can enjoy it solo. That is the problem with WOW endgame; progression is almost entirely gated by group performance, which often involves commitments and late nights playing that are not reasonable for adults. In ESO, endgame progression is not entirely gated by group activity. Its a balance of group, solo, and some pvp.

One of the great achievements in ESO for a solo player is getting the VMA weapons. If you make an equivalent weapon available through group activity, you have diminished the solo experience. That would significantly alter the character of the game.

It sounds like you should take the time to learn VMA. Nothing easy is every worthwhile.

Odovacar · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

Put me down as a NO. My maelstrom inferno staff still, is what gets me through my day, thinking I could be that lucky gets me every time, lol.

kylewwefan · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

What should replace them though? Asylum? Masters? Random Trial weapons? Dungeon weapons? Crafted? The New 4 man?

I could deck my toons out in BiS gear and still find myself far below Dummy Humpers standards, but go in on any toon and make them Stormproof because I learned that content to a degree. On all classes.

It don’t mean anything anymore though. It’s all about how much sweet Love you can make to the skeleton. So you want to take my one little nugget away. That’s fine. Let em drop on normal.

JiKama · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

Do VMA weapons give you a boost to DPS? Sure. People still mix up the Briarheart/Hundings/NMG/Spriggans/Leviathan sets and do fairly well if you have a good rotation. I finally completed VMA about a month ago and completed it about 5 more times that day. I had a rough time for the longest, but I figured it out eventually. I don't believe you should get the best weapons and armor for nothing

shiningforce · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

ImmortalCX wrote: »

shiningforce wrote: »

Yes I agree, now that you even mention it i do find it rather strange that in a multiplayer experience the "Best players" most people shout out you can be is finishing vMaelstrom. I have read a lot on here and other areas of the forums as well how people dont want great gear to drop from Hard move vet trials, they want it kept in Maelstrom but that is not the point of an MMO, its to work together to achieve such gear/items. Well said.

What do you mean the point is "to work together to achieve such gear/items."

Do you realize how many things are done solo in this game? The leveling experience is solo. All of crafting is solo. 98% of the experience is solo.

The "this is an MMO, raids >> everything else" mentailty would diminish the ESO experience. One of the things many people like about ESO is that you can enjoy it solo. That is the problem with WOW endgame; progression is almost entirely gated by group performance, which often involves commitments and late nights playing that are not reasonable for adults. In ESO, endgame progression is not entirely gated by group activity. Its a balance of group, solo, and some pvp.

One of the great achievements in ESO for a solo player is getting the VMA weapons. If you make an equivalent weapon available through group activity, you have diminished the solo experience. That would significantly alter the character of the game.

It sounds like you should take the time to learn VMA. Nothing easy is every worthwhile.

The fact will remain, this was built and sold as an MMO. There are solo'ing elements to the game yes, the leveling experience is not 100% solo, Quests such as the Harborage, Fighters and Mage's guild have solo elements but most everything else can be grouped just fine. Regardless of how you feel, others feel differently. The game is not solo, What does MMO mean to you? Your point is moot. It sounds like you are just here to argue at this point. If you would learn to actually read previous comments you would know i know VmA I have accomplished many times over VmA, I cannot force you to comprehend things nor actually read previous comments, yet its all there. ;You also do not know me so your last low statement is definitely not needed. If you did know me, you'd know I understand hard work pays off well. So once again, stop slandering here in the comments.

pelle412 · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

Maelstrom weapons are not required for completing end game content. Do they boost your DPS? Yes, by a little, but it won't make or break what you are trying to complete. If you want to run with competitive trial teams, struggling with vMA will the least of your problems.

SakuraRush · October 2018

You do not need VMA weapons to beat VMA. Otherwise no one would have ever finished it.

My first complete was using a one bar pet sorc. Overland sets and Maw monster set.

We need to stop the notion that people deserve rewards for tasks they can not complete. If you want VMA weapons you need to do VMA.

And let's be completely honest you don't care about the majority of them. You want the bow and two of the staffs. So when you finally complete it and Flurry set drops you can complain about RNG.

I'd say fix the current VMA weapons if anything. The weapons are fine but the game doesn't handle their mechanics properly in turn making the majority of them useless.

SakuraRush · October 2018

shiningforce wrote: »

OFFL1MIT wrote: »

No, it's hard to complete vma, but if u dedicate yourself and time to it, it's not that impossible. It's all about finding those skills u need to use at the right times, small mistake - you're dead. But once you get that muscle memory it all comes naturaly. It took me 3 months to grind it , Non stop, everyday 1-2 hours, to get the mechanics, to find a build, skills the right ones I needed. The first time I completed it I was soooo happy, it gave me not just a game experience, but a lifetime lesson, that if u dedicate yourself you can do anything and I was like you thinking that it's impossible to do.

If we get an easy alternative, there will be no point to do VMA , there will be no solo Hardcore mode in eso, that gives you reward, in this case weapons. Everything will be easy to get...

Hello, thank you for your reply.

I never said anything about an easier alternative. Even a trial HM vet mode where you would get a 10% chance on getting 1 piece of a weapon out of 100 needed before you could construct it would be fine by me. Not saying easier, just other alternative weapons just as good as Maelstrom in other just as hard as maelstrom arena / dungeons.

You mean allow players to be carried by others to these weapons.

Troneon · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

Careful what you wish for, ZOS will create a new solo trial with 1 million one shot mechanics and then leave it bugged out and throw in some heavy RNG on top, just for you.

idk · October 2018

The answer to OP's question is the top weapons will remain locked behind clearing the most challenging content.

This is clear as Zos has double downed on this by creating, for the first time, a substandard weapon/gear for awarded for clearing content at a lower difficulty lvl.

So, Zos may offer a vMA in normal someday, but there will be a better version, perfect version, available only via vet and possibly have a high bar than just a simple vet clear.

RusevCrush · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

VMA weapons are bis because you actually have to earn them. You can be carried through every other piece of content in the game. So I'm only cool with an alternative if it's from VMA2. Also please don't do the perfect imperfect thing. There better be a colossal gap between them if so. Not something weak like the difference in relequen.

emilyhyoyeon · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

the way the poll options are worded, I have to vote no. yes to other weapons that would fill in the gap between non-vMA weapons and vMA weapons. Weapons that would be stronger than vMA weapons would have to come from content that is harder than vMA, but it doesn't seem like the OP is talking about harder content

Mr_Walker · October 2018

Yes, but only because living in Australia, the tyranny of distance and the bad ping where I live often times means by the time I see the warning cues from enemies on the screen, the server has already decided my fate (with predictable results)....

Girl_Number8 · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Yes, BUT.....

When will we have special weapon sets that can be obtained through PvP activities???

There would be so many nerf threads on balance that they wouldn't last a month.

Uviryth · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

any better in dungeons o

shiningforce wrote: »

But if you are just waiting for CP to go up to achieve farming the Bow in Maelstrom, you are not truly using skill at that point. Well not as much as originally intended; for that matter cp has gone up to the point where Maelstrom is easier and wasn't intended to be this easy as it is now even.

Yeah yeah, and you can beat Dark Souls 3 at level with with only hitting a Bob-It! with your ***. We get it, yours is bigger.......

ccfeeling · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

We do need new weapons drop off VMA 2

Massive_Stain · October 2018

shiningforce wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'd say that some time down the road we will see something better, at least situationally better. It wouldn't make much sense for people to be farming 10+ year old content for endgame gear and never have to find anything better ever. I'm of the mind that all sets should be good under certain circumstances and that no one particular set should always be the best option. That limits choices.

Thank you for your reply!

I agree it will eventually happen, I think its about time to see newer weapons in other places in the game on hard mode that are just as good as Vmael. would love to see what the devs come up with, equivalent gear for certain situations in the stats. Also when you get all the VMael weapons, now what? They need to keep more weapons coming out. This is inevitable, for example cp 160 will not be the cap forever, it will obviously go higher in the future.

This is akin to mmo socialism. Why do you think people who work hard shouldn't be rewarded with the best? This idea has logical fallicy written all over it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but hard work should be rewarded, and people who just want it handed to them because they want in the end game community shouldn't be there anyway.

WeylandLabs · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

Nerf VMA weapons............again and after they nerf them again nerf them one more time just to be safe.

SoLooney · October 2018

I could see another solo content in the future that might offer weapons stronger than what the vma weapons offer, esp the staves and bows.

But can we seriously stop beating the dead horse? Why should the weapons be earned outside the arena? Why should people who never stepped in there, get the weapon without completing and earning it? This game is already catered to casuals. Just stop

If you cant beat vma, you dont need the weapons

Swomp23 · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

BiS equipment should always come from the hardest content possible. I think it's a very good thing the BiS backbar weapons for both stam and mag come from a place that you have to earn yourself. You can't be carried by stronger players.

For an example, when I got my Valkyn Skoria helm, I completly not deserved it. I got carried by max cp guildies when I was way too weak for this content. Was I happy to get it? Sure. But was I as proud as I was this weekend when I got Maelstrom bow for my stam toon? Never. I can't wait to get that inferno staff either.

That being said, I would love a new solo arena in the future dlcs. Then, if it's as hard as vMA, you can drop weapons just as strong.

Perwulf · October 2018

Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom

Random lags doesn't do VMA justice especially players playing outside NA. The only solution I've found is re-rolling to sorcerer class which is the only tolerable class on players with high latency.

Eyesinthedrk · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

Maelstrom makes you a better player. Learning how to work mechanics, prioritize spawns, manage resources and survive without a tank or a healer. That’s the real reward of VMA. The weapons aren’t going to make nearly the impact that learning how to play endgame content does. Any route to circumvent this is a disservice to players, wether they like it/know it or not. The weapons are just a little icing on the cake.

Anyone that can’t beat VMA has no business in vet trials. And of course if you’re not vet trial capable then you have no need for BIS gear.

Inarre · October 2018

"will we see" is very different from "what I want" so I'm not voting....

El_Borracho · October 2018

No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons

As much as I would love to get a suitable alternative to the vMA bow (As I do not have one), I reluctantly say no. There has to be a price to pay for the best gear