Night Mother's Gaze Set
FlyingSwan
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Came back to ESO after an 18 month break about 3 weeks back, only to find that my favourite group set - NMG - had been nerfed. Instead of it providing a group wide pen buff, it now gives Major Fracture, a debuff that is available in a squillion forms throughout Tamriel.
I realise that the term 'developer thinking', is an oxymoron in the case of the ZOS development team, but does anyone know what on Earth drove the devs to make that change? ESO is a game that's crying out for more group interaction and collaboration, and they make this totally uncalled for nerf of a unique set, turning NMG into what is essentially a single-player overland only suit of armour. And it's not like overland is hard and needs the debuff anyway, but trials certainly did benefit from the 'correct' implementation of NMG.
Do the devs actually understand the game? Every video I see of a developer playing ESO makes me chuckle at just how bad they are, and when I see things like this, I just have to assume they don't even understand that it's supposed to be a multiplayer game.
I realise that the term 'developer thinking', is an oxymoron in the case of the ZOS development team, but does anyone know what on Earth drove the devs to make that change? ESO is a game that's crying out for more group interaction and collaboration, and they make this totally uncalled for nerf of a unique set, turning NMG into what is essentially a single-player overland only suit of armour. And it's not like overland is hard and needs the debuff anyway, but trials certainly did benefit from the 'correct' implementation of NMG.
Do the devs actually understand the game? Every video I see of a developer playing ESO makes me chuckle at just how bad they are, and when I see things like this, I just have to assume they don't even understand that it's supposed to be a multiplayer game.
2
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Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Couldn't tell if this thread was an actual inquiry about the nature of the nerf, or merely a means to bash the devs in disguise.3 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Couldn't tell if this thread was an actual inquiry about the nature of the nerf, or merely a means to bash the devs in disguise.
Humans respond to incentives: Ineptitude should always be 'bashed' and competence should always be rewarded.
But yes, it's a genuine enquiry, it's such a bizarre move, and not one that even the PvP whiners will have driven.2 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Couldn't tell if this thread was an actual inquiry about the nature of the nerf, or merely a means to bash the devs in disguise.
Why not both?"Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm1 -
Sparr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭@FlyingSwan Both NMG and Sunderflame got nerfed so all stam just run the Lover.
No developer notes stated as far as I can see:- Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.
- Night Mother’s Gaze: This item set now applies Major Fracture to the enemy when you deal Critical Damage, instead of reducing their Physical Resistance by 2580.
- Prisoner’s Rags: This item set now requires that you are both Sprinting and moving to obtain its bonuses.
- Sunderflame:
- This item set now applies Minor Breach and Minor Fracture to the enemy when you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, instead of reducing their Physical Resistance by 3440.
- Increased the bonus Flame Damage dealt with a fully-charged Heavy Attack to 4000 from 774.
Edited by Sparr0w on October 8, 2018 3:12PM@Sparr0w so I get the notification
Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+DD: All Mag + StamPC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
Tank: NB | DK | Warden
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GHDD: All Mag + Stam
Heal: Templar | Sorc
Tank: DK | NB
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS0 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭@FlyingSwan Both NMG and Sunderflame got nerfed so all stam just run the Lover.
No developer notes stated as far as I can see:- Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.
- Night Mother’s Gaze: This item set now applies Major Fracture to the enemy when you deal Critical Damage, instead of reducing their Physical Resistance by 2580.
- Prisoner’s Rags: This item set now requires that you are both Sprinting and moving to obtain its bonuses.
- Sunderflame:
- This item set now applies Minor Breach and Minor Fracture to the enemy when you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, instead of reducing their Physical Resistance by 3440.
- Increased the bonus Flame Damage dealt with a fully-charged Heavy Attack to 4000 from 774.
Ok, thank you.
Perhaps I am biased, but that seems like a surefire way to reduce build diversity, when the devs ostensibly want to increase it.4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At the time the change was described as an attempt to tone down the damage of well organized raid groups without hurting less organized ones (read: Craglorn pugs) too much. The old "raise the floor, lower the ceiling". Nowdays it seems like ZOS has abandoned that idea.1 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭At the time the change was described as an attempt to tone down the damage of well organized raid groups without hurting less organized ones (read: Craglorn pugs) too much. The old "raise the floor, lower the ceiling". Nowdays it seems like ZOS has abandoned that idea.
Devising a game that punishes good organisation and rewards cretins is an interesting concept. I levelled a warden when I came back. I killed Dosha in about 5 hits and I'm thinking, "is this actually the same game I bought nearly 5 years back??"
It's small wonder one reads so much invective towards the devs nowadays. It plays like Neverwinter.0 -
danger241✭✭NMG is still a viable set in PvP for group battles or solo stamplars.
One caltrops can debuff the zerg down. Much more reliable than the dk's breath.1 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It was nerfed so they could sell more Summerset expansions, which has the Relequen set and is required for top end DPS.
I still use my NMG for vMA on stamplar and stam sorc, but it is a niche set now.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »Couldn't tell if this thread was an actual inquiry about the nature of the nerf, or merely a means to bash the devs in disguise.
Humans respond to incentives: Ineptitude should always be 'bashed' and competence should always be rewarded.
But yes, it's a genuine enquiry, it's such a bizarre move, and not one that even the PvP whiners will have driven.
Well, I think you have the order of operations wrong.
First find out what the reasoning was before blaming them for incompetence.
I too had my main set nerfed, but understood that the reasons were "meta". It definietely requires stacking more penetration, which if you are low -CP you will definitely feel as a lack of damage output.0 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As I recall from discussions at the time, trial groups had evolved to the point where three players could negate nearly all of the resistance of bosses. This set and Sunderflame were key. The result was that most or all of the mechanics of a boss fight could be avoided. Unfortunately, I can't point you to a source for my recollection.
As an example, in many pug groups of competent players in which I participated, we did not bother with runners for Rakkat in normal MoL. Rakkat simply could not survive long enough to spawn that mechanic.
It made farming for desirable set weapons and jewelry far too easy as we could blow through nMoL several times in an hour or so. It also made the content boring.
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SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭It was nerfed so they could sell more Summerset expansions, which has the Relequen set and is required for top end DPS.
I still use my NMG for vMA on stamplar and stam sorc, but it is a niche set now.
still stronger then nerved TFS -.^PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭As I recall from discussions at the time, trial groups had evolved to the point where three players could negate nearly all of the resistance of bosses. This set and Sunderflame were key. The result was that most or all of the mechanics of a boss fight could be avoided. Unfortunately, I can't point you to a source for my recollection.
As an example, in many pug groups of competent players in which I participated, we did not bother with runners for Rakkat in normal MoL. Rakkat simply could not survive long enough to spawn that mechanic.
It made farming for desirable set weapons and jewelry far too easy as we could blow through nMoL several times in an hour or so. It also made the content boring.
srsly, resistances in a Trial should always go towards 0. There are more then enough tools to achieve this. (major, minor breach / fracture, Roar of Alkosh, infused Crusher, CP, Destro Passive, Light armor Passive)
Stamina had to run SF and NMG because they didnt have passives which reduced Resiistances by 5k for free.
They got arround 5-6k pen from wearing these 2 sets, and everybody else could profit, while 2 players sacrified 1 5pcs setbonus each.
It was a fair tradeoff IMO...now everybody runs relequen Advancing, or Relequen ravager...no more diversity on stamina players.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer2 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »It was a fair tradeoff IMO...now everybody runs relequen Advancing, or Relequen ravager...no more diversity on stamina players.
There wasn't much diversity for Stamina before the change, nor is there much diversity for Magicka builds, either.
Diversity of builds isn't necessarily desirable in trials groups. When 11 other players depend on you for performance, that's a strong incentive to run the most ideal sets for your role. It's more about maximizing individual performance for the benefit of the group rather than running an individual's preferred build, rotation, or playstyle.
Running NMG and Sunderflame weren't examples of diversity; they were examples of sacrificing individual preferebcefor the benefit of the group.
*shrugs* Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. I run trials for the teamwork, not to showcase theorycrafting.
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FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »As I recall from discussions at the time, trial groups had evolved to the point where three players could negate nearly all of the resistance of bosses. This set and Sunderflame were key. The result was that most or all of the mechanics of a boss fight could be avoided. Unfortunately, I can't point you to a source for my recollection.
As an example, in many pug groups of competent players in which I participated, we did not bother with runners for Rakkat in normal MoL. Rakkat simply could not survive long enough to spawn that mechanic.
It made farming for desirable set weapons and jewelry far too easy as we could blow through nMoL several times in an hour or so. It also made the content boring.
srsly, resistances in a Trial should always go towards 0. There are more then enough tools to achieve this. (major, minor breach / fracture, Roar of Alkosh, infused Crusher, CP, Destro Passive, Light armor Passive)
Stamina had to run SF and NMG because they didnt have passives which reduced Resiistances by 5k for free.
They got arround 5-6k pen from wearing these 2 sets, and everybody else could profit, while 2 players sacrified 1 5pcs setbonus each.
It was a fair tradeoff IMO...now everybody runs relequen Advancing, or Relequen ravager...no more diversity on stamina players.
I must say, it does sound counter to good game design to limit build diversity because people were finding *normal* content easy. Normal content in this game is easy by design, vMoL would still be a challenge for a co-ordinated team with an NMG wearer.
It seems quite blatant that ZOS have adopted a cash grab mentality (Crown Store tat), so I'm more inclined to believe the poster who says it's to sell the new Summerset set. It's how ESO has proceeded so far, so one would imagine it works for them.
Thank you all for the replies.
Edited by FlyingSwan on October 8, 2018 6:54PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »Came back to ESO after an 18 month break about 3 weeks back, only to find that my favourite group set - NMG - had been nerfed. Instead of it providing a group wide pen buff, it now gives Major Fracture, a debuff that is available in a squillion forms throughout Tamriel.
I realise that the term 'developer thinking', is an oxymoron in the case of the ZOS development team, but does anyone know what on Earth drove the devs to make that change? ESO is a game that's crying out for more group interaction and collaboration, and they make this totally uncalled for nerf of a unique set, turning NMG into what is essentially a single-player overland only suit of armour. And it's not like overland is hard and needs the debuff anyway, but trials certainly did benefit from the 'correct' implementation of NMG.
Do the devs actually understand the game? Every video I see of a developer playing ESO makes me chuckle at just how bad they are, and when I see things like this, I just have to assume they don't even understand that it's supposed to be a multiplayer game.
While I do tend to agree that the change to the set was unnecessary, I am not sure you get to take an 18 month break and then complain about crap this old when you decide to come back. Just my 2 gold pieces, which thanks to rampant inflation in this game, aint worth all that much...Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on October 8, 2018 6:58PM2 -
TroodonsBite✭✭I still use it for vMA or other solo stuff. Or so it can poke a dummy for me for a dps test lmao 😒0 -
boombazookajd✭✭✭✭✭It's gold on a leveling toon. Hundings/NMG training gear and I blow through solo crap with ease. Not saying it's necessarily the best thing ever, but it works wonders soloDrathus Delenu- Dunmer magDk: Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Stormproof, Peak Scaler, Clockwork Confounder, Orderly, Master Wizard, Cloudrest Hero, Undaunted, Dragonstar Arena Champion
Thoronir Rolston- Breton petsorc: Stormproof
Zaakazha-Redguard stamblade: Boethia's Scythe, Clockwork Confounder, Maelstrom Arena Champion, Dragonstar Arena Champion
Scrubs:
Justinius Maximus Decimus- Altmer magblade
Agronak gro'Mashul- Orc DK Tank
Valerya Hawkcroft- Breton healer
Zaaka- Imperial stamDK/crafter
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