Cloak as magicka dodge

rafaelcsmaia · October 2018

Like seriously, someone gotta do something about this BS.

NBs can dodge basically ANY projectile by timing cloack, even those already on the way.

Is this behaviour expected? I doubt so

usmcjdking · October 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Like seriously, someone gotta do something about this BS.

NBs can dodge basically ANY projectile by timing cloack, even those already on the way.

Is this behaviour expected? I doubt so

Yes, this was instituted because NBs couldn't cloak off multiple people when literally anything with a travel time (to include melee attacks) would pull you out of stealth.

Savos_Saren · October 2018

Ah yes. Good ol' cloak. It can make undodgable attacks "miss" and make the caster invulnerable to previously applied DOTs. Is it broken? A little bit.

Here's the problem, though: ZOS hasn't figured out a way to allow a NB to take DOT damage without being pulled out of cloak. If ZOS would make our NBs take previously applied DOT damage- you wouldn't have NBs constantly reengaging a fight.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2018

The only was to make a real nerf to cloak is to have a strong class shield 🛡

Gilvoth · October 2018

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

anatole1234 · October 2018

If you dodge DB by cloaking you actually take the damage but your hp doesnt update and you g et massive hp desync

IZZEFlameLash · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

You did not help anyone but your own bow light attack spam build. I mean, Sload's fit well with your bow build still I believe.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ah yes. Good ol' cloak. It can make undodgable attacks "miss" and make the caster invulnerable to previously applied DOTs. Is it broken? A little bit.

Here's the problem, though: ZOS hasn't figured out a way to allow a NB to take DOT damage without being pulled out of cloak. If ZOS would make our NBs take previously applied DOT damage- you wouldn't have NBs constantly reengaging a fight.

Yeah. ZOS might never figure it out.

Emma_Overload · October 2018

What makes me angriest about this is that they still won't make it so Ball of Lighting can be used reactively to catch a projectile that's already in flight.

Strider__Roshin · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

Did you not state that you want the maximum shield strength reduced to 10%?

Oh and I'm fine with Cloak being reasonably nerfed.

~A Stamblade

UppGRAYxDD · October 2018

What What! Someone can dodge something without dodgeroling? @ZoS fire up the nerf-mobile....

Biro123 · October 2018

I suspect with the upcoming dodge change, and reduction in mark duration, cloak is about to get comparatively stronger.
Only downside compared to dodge is that its reliant on the cool down and doesn't cancel you current animation to fire instantly.

Maryal · October 2018

People won't be happy until Nightblades have been renamed Nerfblades.

Nerfing cloak will only break it to the point where it's useless. No, it would have to be replaced rather than nerfed. I know, cloak will be replaced with clock ... an ability, that when cast, lets us roll back (our) time and position in 5 second increments ... it will be an instant cast with a 1 second cool-down ... tick toc tick toc tic toc. Or, we might get a 'flash' skill (instant cast) that temporarily blinds all enemies within a 5 meter radius for 2 seconds. Or, we could get a teleport skill (without the shade) that lets us teleport anywhere within a 28 meter radius of where we are standing (instant cast). Or, maybe a jump skill ... casting the skill propels us up and over in a huge arching jump in any direction we choose up to 28 meters away (allowing us to jump across water, players, trees, etc. ). When you think of what we could get as a cloak replacement, maybe cloak isn't so bad. After all, people keep saying that NBs are ZOS's 'golden child'. Sound crazy? Think again .... (/whisper: "golden child").

Biro123 · October 2018

Maryal wrote: »

People won't be happy until Nightblades have been renamed Nerfblades.

Nerfing cloak will only break it to the point where it's useless. No, it would have to be replaced rather than nerfed. I know, cloak will be replaced with clock ... an ability, that when cast, lets us roll back (our) time and position in 5 second increments ... it will be an instant cast with a 1 second cool-down ... tick toc tick toc tic toc. Or, we might get a 'flash' skill (instant cast) that temporarily blinds all enemies within a 5 meter radius for 2 seconds. Or, we could get a teleport skill (without the shade) that lets us teleport anywhere within a 28 meter radius of where we are standing (instant cast). Or, maybe a jump skill ... casting the skill propels us up and over in a huge arching jump in any direction we choose up to 28 meters away (allowing us to jump across water, players, trees, etc. ). When you think of what we could get as a cloak replacement, maybe cloak isn't so bad. After all, people keep saying that NBs are ZOS's 'golden child'.

I always said that about shields, and we all know where that went!

Cloak was fine, dodge was fine, shields were fine. Cloak WILL be stronger, relatively, but it shouldn't be nerfed, imho.

Heimpai · October 2018

Yeah they seriously need to fix it..when i click it it sometimes takes several seconds to activate oh and aoe spam shouldn’t pull you out of cloak unless aoe completely strips shields off too

rafaelcsmaia · October 2018

To all the whiners, this is not a nerf request, its a FIX request.

Cloak is not supposed to dodge, simple as that.

susmitds · October 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

To all the whiners, this is not a nerf request, its a FIX request.

Cloak is not supposed to dodge, simple as that.

The Original Cloak back in 2014 need not dodge any abilities. They added the pseudo-dodge around the removal of softcaps, as Cloak became unreliable to work against more than one enemy with out forcing a miss. So, it is not a bug. It is an intended effect of Cloak.

Gilvoth · October 2018

susmitds wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

To all the whiners, this is not a nerf request, its a FIX request.

Cloak is not supposed to dodge, simple as that.

The Original Cloak back in 2014 need not dodge any abilities. They added the pseudo-dodge around the removal of softcaps, as Cloak became unreliable to work against more than one enemy with out forcing a miss. So, it is not a bug. It is an intended effect of Cloak.

Exactly.
whats happen here is sorcs got a nerf to thier shields (kinda) and they are retaliate and want to nerf and hurt other classes out of spite and call it balance.

Gilvoth · October 2018

Daus wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

Did you not state that you want the maximum shield strength reduced to 10%?

that statement you quoted is out of a longer context, and not related to the current thread.
and, your "Quote" is out of sinc and out of false accusation, and also not telling the entire "quote" from whence it came.
in other words ...

"your quote is misworded"

idk · October 2018

What I find interesting is OP mentioned nothing about the several counters to cloak that we do have. Without that it does seem that OP has room to grow.

rafaelcsmaia · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

To all the whiners, this is not a nerf request, its a FIX request.

Cloak is not supposed to dodge, simple as that.

The Original Cloak back in 2014 need not dodge any abilities. They added the pseudo-dodge around the removal of softcaps, as Cloak became unreliable to work against more than one enemy with out forcing a miss. So, it is not a bug. It is an intended effect of Cloak.

Exactly.
whats happen here is sorcs got a nerf to thier shields (kinda) and they are retaliate and want to nerf and hurt other classes out of spite and call it balance.

So if I point out an nb issue i must be a sorc then? Wow

idk wrote: »

What I find interesting is OP mentioned nothing about the several counters to cloak that we do have. Without that it does seem that OP has room to grow.

I use other potions other than detect you know, there is not that much counter to cloak aside that and aoe

susmitds · October 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

To all the whiners, this is not a nerf request, its a FIX request.

Cloak is not supposed to dodge, simple as that.

The Original Cloak back in 2014 need not dodge any abilities. They added the pseudo-dodge around the removal of softcaps, as Cloak became unreliable to work against more than one enemy with out forcing a miss. So, it is not a bug. It is an intended effect of Cloak.

Exactly.
whats happen here is sorcs got a nerf to thier shields (kinda) and they are retaliate and want to nerf and hurt other classes out of spite and call it balance.

So if I point out an nb issue i must be a sorc then? Wow

idk wrote: »

What I find interesting is OP mentioned nothing about the several counters to cloak that we do have. Without that it does seem that OP has room to grow.

I use other potions other than detect you know, there is not that much counter to cloak aside that and aoe

Issue? It was an issue to YOU. Deal with it or maybe run AOE?

mojomood · October 2018

Really? Every AoE damage skill, half the damage procs plus a number of skills and pots that all pull NBs out of cloak. Stamblades have mobility and will just dodge but magblades dont have cost reduction passives to dodge roll or the max stam.

Just another "nerf what I couldn't kill this one time so I get more kills" thread.

Ragnarock41 · October 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

???

What is this? Class alliance?

MooseKnuckles88 · October 2018

Nothing to see here, just another bitter pvp player requesting nerfs. Shocker.

Strider__Roshin · October 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

???

What is this? Class alliance?

Negative

https://youtu.be/8OhrwsmMZ-Q

brandonv516 · October 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ah yes. Good ol' cloak. It can make undodgable attacks "miss" and make the caster invulnerable to previously applied DOTs. Is it broken? A little bit.

Here's the problem, though: ZOS hasn't figured out a way to allow a NB to take DOT damage without being pulled out of cloak. If ZOS would make our NBs take previously applied DOT damage- you wouldn't have NBs constantly reengaging a fight.

False.

Casting Healthy Offering on teammates creates a self DoT on the NB. If you cloak, it does NOT pull you from stealth but it also does not make the DoT miss.

Ragnarock41 · October 2018

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we helped you and stood with you Guys about the shield nerf, asking to stop the 1 second delay on shields and the devs listened.
in turn, you guys ask for our defense to be ruined.

in addition to that, you Guys keep spamming this forum with nerf requests.

???

What is this? Class alliance?

Negative

https://youtu.be/8OhrwsmMZ-Q

Oh man. Now I have to watch LOTR all over again.

Joosef_Kivikilpi · October 2018

Can we please stop with the Nightblade cloak witch hunts? Please. Consider your own class specialty defensive skills you uniquely have and realize you each have your own strengths when using skills tactically, so PLAY to it. You CHOSE your class in the beginning. YOU did. No one else. Each one is unique and has a special flavor of play that no other can provide in the same manner. Accept your choice, study on other builds, discover your strengths and weaknesses, discover opposing class strengths and weaknesses, and play accordingly.

Nightblades --> Cloak --> Positioning, Escape, DoT mitigation, and Evasion Skill.
Templars --> Cleansing Ritual --> Mass AOE Self and Group Purge Skill
Dragonknight --> Dragon Wings --> Skill which reflects projectiles and can remove/purge snares.
Sorcerers --> Hardened Ward & Streak & Dark Deal --> Powerful Class Shield, with the ability to stack with other shields (which this Update is gutting the skill - I really do feel for you guys, even when I hated you on the Rune Cage combos when it was super broken) & Escape or Engage skill which can stun or absorb projectiles & Fantastic Resource Restore
Wardens --> Shimmering Shield & Ice Fortress & Permafrost & Betty Netch --> Absorbs projectiles, giving major heroism & AoE buff providing caster with ~16% damage reduction & provides AoE Major Protection and Damage etc etc (not even to mention other healing defensive skills) & free purge and resource restoration skill.

I honestly believe too many people cry out for nerfs without really having dedicated time to understanding their class and other classes. There is decent balance. It isn't perfect, but it is there. Examples include: Dragonknights Dragon Wings don't defend well against Melee builds, but then they have Petrify up close. Nightblades are great burst, but lay down a secure area where they can't stealth, taking away that ability and defense (plenty of skills to do so), and you'll gain the upper hand in most fights. With so many shields and magicka drain, using Oblivion damage or resource drain poisons cripple them. Templars... defile those fools for days because it's going to be purged multiple times - wear them down. Wardens - dodge their Shalks combos - I haven't had enough experience fighting them so I need to learn to fight them more. I understand their attack combos, though, and know when to watch out for their burst.

There will be differences, but that is the name of the game we're playing. Some classes have their glory days and are difficult to fight against, but we CAN adapt to fight that specific class or style with our own. We make choices and we have to live with the consequence, whether we like those consequences or not. We need to learn to play with what we have been given.

Biro123 · October 2018

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

Can we please stop with the Nightblade cloak witch hunts? Please. Consider your own class specialty defensive skills you uniquely have and realize you each have your own strengths when using skills tactically, so PLAY to it. You CHOSE your class in the beginning. YOU did. No one else. Each one is unique and has a special flavor of play that no other can provide in the same manner. Accept your choice, study on other builds, discover your strengths and weaknesses, discover opposing class strengths and weaknesses, and play accordingly.

Nightblades --> Cloak --> Positioning, Escape, DoT mitigation, and Evasion Skill.
Templars --> Cleansing Ritual --> Mass AOE Self and Group Purge Skill
Dragonknight --> Dragon Wings --> Skill which reflects projectiles and can remove/purge snares.
Sorcerers --> Hardened Ward & Streak & Dark Deal --> Powerful Class Shield, with the ability to stack with other shields (which this Update is gutting the skill - I really do feel for you guys, even when I hated you on the Rune Cage combos when it was super broken) & Escape or Engage skill which can stun or absorb projectiles & Fantastic Resource Restore
Wardens --> Shimmering Shield & Ice Fortress & Permafrost & Betty Netch --> Absorbs projectiles, giving major heroism & AoE buff providing caster with ~16% damage reduction & provides AoE Major Protection and Damage etc etc (not even to mention other healing defensive skills) & free purge and resource restoration skill.

I honestly believe too many people cry out for nerfs without really having dedicated time to understanding their class and other classes. There is decent balance. It isn't perfect, but it is there. Examples include: Dragonknights Dragon Wings don't defend well against Melee builds, but then they have Petrify up close. Nightblades are great burst, but lay down a secure area where they can't stealth, taking away that ability and defense (plenty of skills to do so), and you'll gain the upper hand in most fights. With so many shields and magicka drain, using Oblivion damage or resource drain poisons cripple them. Templars... defile those fools for days because it's going to be purged multiple times - wear them down. Wardens - dodge their Shalks combos - I haven't had enough experience fighting them so I need to learn to fight them more. I understand their attack combos, though, and know when to watch out for their burst.

There will be differences, but that is the name of the game we're playing. Some classes have their glory days and are difficult to fight against, but we CAN adapt to fight that specific class or style with our own. We make choices and we have to live with the consequence, whether we like those consequences or not. We need to learn to play with what we have been given.

/Agree.

It was exactly the same with all the 'just remove shieldstacking' posts. I mean that would leave every light-armour build BUT sorcs able to shield AND use an effective class defence (eg, purge, cloak, wings etc.)… sigh..

DeadlyRecluse · October 2018

I honestly think it's a mechanical issue that isn't that simple to fix.

IMO, the best way for cloak to function would be that you still take damage (from dots and incoming projectiles) but get guaranteed stealth for .25 seconds or so before it can be broken. But every time the interactions between damage (incoming and outgoing) and cloak is adjusted, it takes months to really smooth out and work as intended.

Feanor · October 2018

Cloak - the skill that remains as it is regardless of balance because adjusting it would break it again for months. I wish my Sorc skills were like that.

Well, let them cloak. I guess it’s a good thing that at least one class is fun to play still. The rest just has to decide whether it’s worth it or not any longer.