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Will we ever see Maelstrom weapon alternatives? (It's 2018.....)
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MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weaponsredspecter23 wrote: »I'd say that some time down the road we will see something better, at least situationally better. It wouldn't make much sense for people to be farming 10+ year old content for endgame gear and never have to find anything better ever. I'm of the mind that all sets should be good under certain circumstances and that no one particular set should always be the best option. That limits choices.
it's more so what few select weapons do as well as the ability they alter.You ahve to realize they have already done the skills you would use for dps arena weapons.0 -
OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromSo long as vMA weapons remain useful, viable, and highly sought after, I see no reason not to introduce other sets that are equally as useful, viable, and highly sought after. I feel that one of the biggest weaknesses of this game is its lack of build diversity, especially in end-game content, and I'm all for increasing said diversity so long as it's not devaluing the time and effort others have already put into getting what came before. (For the record, I've never actually completed vMA, so I have no personal skin in the game. I just appreciate the time and effort and discipline that goes into mastering content like that, and I want to see that respected.)Edited by OrdoHermetica on October 6, 2018 12:30AM0 -
ResTandRespeC✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsHonestly i have problem with other weapons coming out and being better but the wording of the poll and the lead up is terrible. Making me feel like this is some how a nerf vMA thread lol. Most people who meed vMA weapons (aka end game vet pve content score pushing) can easily get them. Even people who don't "need" them but just want to have them are likely able to get them with some effort.0
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ResTandRespeC✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsAlso its totally possible to pull enough dps. Without vma weapons to progress in end game content now that we have the 2 piece bonus on 2h weapons. The staff adds about 2k dps and the bow 3-4k. That leaves approximately the same difference in dps from this patch to the last one which was plenty to complete the content then.0
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Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭In case you can't complete vma you are just bad enought to don't be in need of those weapons
vma is just a overall basic skill determinion - sustain, situation awareness etc
No stormproof? go back to your random normals
Flawless conquerer? you may be a person worthy to try playing with in endgame content
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Somewhere✭✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromYour poll is kind of strange, since the option is "we will get good ones" or "we shouldn't", not really sure those are opposites here. Should we have other options that are just as good? Maybe. Will we? No.
Problem is, most of the vMA weapons, actually not that impressive. But every magicka DD basically uses a staff, so they'll be using Elemental Blockade because it's a really good ground DOT. Most stamina DD can run bow on backbar because bow also has a really good ground based DOT, especially paired with vMA bow. While there's newer weapons that are better (some sorc builds will run Perfect Asylum staff on front bar because force pulse), something's gotta be extremely niche to replace vMA staff and bow, since most people don't actively use their backbar weapons.
So basically you have 2 skills most DD are already using, and you have a weapon that buffs them passively, and doesn't require you to have a 3 or 5 piece set. The only way you're gonna uproot vMA staff and bow is with another ability altering weapon. Asylum didn't do it, and neither will Blackrose. The final ability altering weapons are probably going to change things like Elemental Drain, Forward Momentum, Poison Injection. Of those I really only see maybe Poison Injection being altered enough to uproot vMA bow. If the Ele Drain one is good enough most people will just expect the healer to backbar it, since most raid groups have healer apply elemental drain.
So unless we get ability altering weapons for weapon ultimates to make them insanely good (doubtful) I think vMA weapons are here to stay.Edited by Somewhere on October 6, 2018 1:09AM2 -
OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromOf those I really only see maybe Poison Injection being altered enough to uproot vMA bow. If the Ele Drain one is good enough most people will just expect the healer to backbar it, since most raid groups have healer apply elemental drain.
So unless we get ability altering weapons for weapon ultimates to make them insanely good (doubtful) I think vMA weapons are here to stay.
Master's Bow already modifies Poison Injection (or, rather, adds a secondary effect to it), so I doubt that would be the one future items would modify.2 -
Monsieur✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsI kneejerked ‘no’, but thinking about it, I’d be happy to see some similar strength weapon sets as long as they’re gated behind equal or greater difficulty solo content.
I’m a strong believer that VMA makes you a better player. It forces you to play the game rather than just faceroll dps your way through everything avoiding mechanics.
Adding “imperfect” versions of the weapons or making them easier to obtain does nothing to improve the skill level of the player base in my opinion.2 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromESO is stale, and I've only been playing about a year...2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsHonestly, I would be fine with it, as long the content that gives it is equally hard as vMA or harder. Can't have farming scrubs running with BiS gear.2 -
Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromI definitely think we should get some new 1pc sets that are as good as the vMA weapons (the new Blackrose ones do not accomplish this), It would be nice to have a choice rather than using a vMA staff/bow in every build. I do think its good to have them in high lvl content like the arenas, but I also think it would be cool to put something like that in the game in a new way.
Something I thought of a few days ago was that it would be really cool to have some kind of artifact-type weapons that can be found rarely in treasure chests. Having the difficulty of the chest obviously effect the drop rate, simple lock being the lowest chance, treasure maps being the highest chance. It would also make all treasure maps actually valuable, and make overland players feel like they're getting something worthwhile out of their content.
(Note: Yes I have completed vMA, vDSA, and vAS and have a full set of all ability altering weapons. So I'm not just saying this because I "want it to be easy", I just think it would be nice to add something fun for overland content)1 -
llSRRll✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromMost MMO's replace the bis weapons after a while but this game has not. As a person who has ran VMA over 1000 times I know how frustrating it can be to run that arena and not see an Inferno. Out of the 1000+ run I have 3 Inferno's, 3 thats just stupid.2
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MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsOrdoHermetica wrote: »Of those I really only see maybe Poison Injection being altered enough to uproot vMA bow. If the Ele Drain one is good enough most people will just expect the healer to backbar it, since most raid groups have healer apply elemental drain.
So unless we get ability altering weapons for weapon ultimates to make them insanely good (doubtful) I think vMA weapons are here to stay.
Master's Bow already modifies Poison Injection (or, rather, adds a secondary effect to it), so I doubt that would be the one future items would modify.
like I said all useable pve class skills for dps have already been done0 -
grkkll✭✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromI voted yes in the interests of having alternative options but tbh now that 2 handed = 2 items I prefer to have 2 sets of 5 and monster H&S1
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shiningforce✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromYour poll is kind of strange, since the option is "we will get good ones" or "we shouldn't", not really sure those are opposites here. Should we have other options that are just as good? Maybe. Will we? No.
Problem is, most of the vMA weapons, actually not that impressive. But every magicka DD basically uses a staff, so they'll be using Elemental Blockade because it's a really good ground DOT. Most stamina DD can run bow on backbar because bow also has a really good ground based DOT, especially paired with vMA bow. While there's newer weapons that are better (some sorc builds will run Perfect Asylum staff on front bar because force pulse), something's gotta be extremely niche to replace vMA staff and bow, since most people don't actively use their backbar weapons.
So basically you have 2 skills most DD are already using, and you have a weapon that buffs them passively, and doesn't require you to have a 3 or 5 piece set. The only way you're gonna uproot vMA staff and bow is with another ability altering weapon. Asylum didn't do it, and neither will Blackrose. The final ability altering weapons are probably going to change things like Elemental Drain, Forward Momentum, Poison Injection. Of those I really only see maybe Poison Injection being altered enough to uproot vMA bow. If the Ele Drain one is good enough most people will just expect the healer to backbar it, since most raid groups have healer apply elemental drain.
So unless we get ability altering weapons for weapon ultimates to make them insanely good (doubtful) I think vMA weapons are here to stay.
The Description for the poll was:
Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as Maelstrom
No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weapons
You may have just read it wrong? I agree though, the Bow and Destruction staffs are the best weapons of Vmaelstrom. It would be nice to see even a newer arena with better passives for the other weapons that dont get such great buffs as the staffs. Most MMO's eventually make better weapons and gear, its inevitable. The more content they put in the higher level we will go and eventually VMA could possibly be obsolete. For now though 160 cp is here, inevitable change will occur; until then it would be nice for the devs to consider equivalent weapons or better passives on other gears which we could aquire from other hard mode vet (possibly) new arenas even.-- It is easy to be a Jerk Online; what do you win? Being Kind people remember you, help you, befriend you and you feel good too.0 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mister_DMC wrote: »For the thousandth time, if you can't beat VMA you don't need the weapons.
I have every maelstrom weapon in doubles, and I disagree. Just out of logic, if you can beat VMA then you probably dont need the weapons. However, those incapable of beating it could probably use the dps boost lol2 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lets get on to the real discussion of why I have to group for master weapons when no one runs VDSA anymore. It's like pulling teeth to find a group.1 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsTHE WAY THE QUESTION WAS WORDED is designed to give the "yes" column more support.
The second option is that there should NEVER be any weapons that are greater power than VMA weapons. The question should have read "there should not be an alternate way to obtain VMA weapons."
Those are different things. To say that there should never be more powerful weapons than VMA imposes a limiting view on the future of the game. Maybe three or five years from now, something more powerful should be introduced. And of course most rational minded people would vote this way. But it doesn't address the question you asked.
The question you actually asked is about making VMA weapons obtainable through other sources. I think in the virtual NOW, in the forseeable future, VMA weapons should be most powerful.
Obviously a third alternative to your poll (that you forgot to ask) is that a more powerful weapon becomes available, but that you have to complete a new arena which is 5x harder than VMA. I'm pretty sure this is not what you want. I mean what good is making even more powerful weapons if the content is even harder?
If they make an arena that is 5x harder than VMA, that only the most elite players can achieve, then yes, there should be more powerful weapons.0 -
shiningforce✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromImmortalCX wrote: »THE WAY THE QUESTION WAS WORDED is designed to give the "yes" column more support.
The second option is that there should NEVER be any weapons that are greater power than VMA weapons. The question should have read "there should not be an alternate way to obtain VMA weapons."
Those are different things. To say that there should never be more powerful weapons than VMA imposes a limiting view on the future of the game. Maybe three or five years from now, something more powerful should be introduced. And of course most rational minded people would vote this way. But it doesn't address the question you asked.
The question you actually asked is about making VMA weapons obtainable through other sources. I think in the virtual NOW, in the forseeable future, VMA weapons should be most powerful.
Obviously a third alternative to your poll (that you forgot to ask) is that a more powerful weapon becomes available, but that you have to complete a new arena which is 5x harder than VMA. I'm pretty sure this is not what you want. I mean what good is making even more powerful weapons if the content is even harder?
If they make an arena that is 5x harder than VMA, that only the most elite players can achieve, then yes, there should be more powerful weapons.
You're thinking way to much into this..... It is a simple question, not a conspiracy theory.
I also never mention for "alternative ways to obtain VMA weapons". Try Alternative weapons just as good away from VMA weapons. Alternative does not mean the exact same.
No i did not say nor mean to get other Vma weapons from other sources. That was never the intent of this thread, if you read the other comments you would understand that. I said what was intended, no need to change my meaning and re-word it for me.
It has already been years with VmA, again I am looking towards wanting to see newer weapons that have the same power as VmA weapons and obtaining them with the same difficulty as VmA.-- It is easy to be a Jerk Online; what do you win? Being Kind people remember you, help you, befriend you and you feel good too.0 -
shiningforce✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromThere is a reason i ask to discuss the topic underneath my post people, to get more information if you need it, please dont assume negatively right away or put words in my mouth, tyEdited by shiningforce on October 8, 2018 5:03PM-- It is easy to be a Jerk Online; what do you win? Being Kind people remember you, help you, befriend you and you feel good too.0
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Hateanthem✭✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromThe content is old and I don't like running it anymore. Time for something updated.
And while I'm here and vMA weapons kind of fall into this category....
Sideways progression sucks and the CP system is a colossal and epic FAIL. All of the people that cried, "I should always be able to progress!" and the employees at ZOS that listened to them should forever be banned from video games.0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom Weaponsshiningforce wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »THE WAY THE QUESTION WAS WORDED is designed to give the "yes" column more support.
The second option is that there should NEVER be any weapons that are greater power than VMA weapons. The question should have read "there should not be an alternate way to obtain VMA weapons."
Those are different things. To say that there should never be more powerful weapons than VMA imposes a limiting view on the future of the game. Maybe three or five years from now, something more powerful should be introduced. And of course most rational minded people would vote this way. But it doesn't address the question you asked.
The question you actually asked is about making VMA weapons obtainable through other sources. I think in the virtual NOW, in the forseeable future, VMA weapons should be most powerful.
Obviously a third alternative to your poll (that you forgot to ask) is that a more powerful weapon becomes available, but that you have to complete a new arena which is 5x harder than VMA. I'm pretty sure this is not what you want. I mean what good is making even more powerful weapons if the content is even harder?
If they make an arena that is 5x harder than VMA, that only the most elite players can achieve, then yes, there should be more powerful weapons.
You're thinking way to much into this..... It is a simple question, not a conspiracy theory.
I also never mention for "alternative ways to obtain VMA weapons". Try Alternative weapons just as good away from VMA weapons. Alternative does not mean the exact same.
No i did not say nor mean to get other Vma weapons from other sources. That was never the intent of this thread, if you read the other comments you would understand that. I said what was intended, no need to change my meaning and re-word it for me.
It has already been years with VmA, again I am looking towards wanting to see newer weapons that have the same power as VmA weapons and obtaining them with the same difficulty as VmA.
If I could sum up what you are asking, its to have weapons of the same power level as VMA through other sources. Yet the actual question was worded differently. Why can't people just say what they mean?
VMA is the only "enforced" difficult content in the game. Killing world bosses may be similar difficulty but you can group with others. Same with trials. If they made top-tier weapons available through trials, then everyone would have them farmed within a week, and most of those people would be carried.
My answer to you question is that if there are alternate weapons of equal or greater power, they need to be gated by content of equal or greater difficulty.
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mister_DMC wrote: »For the thousandth time, if you can't beat VMA you don't need the weapons.
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsBTW, I haven't completed VMA yet, but its the carrot that keeps me playing and developing my character. At some point I will have enough CP / skill / gear that I will be able to farm it for my bow.
If they made an equivalent bow available through a trial, I guarantee I'd have it already (unless entry to that trial was "gated" by ownership of the VMA weapon).
Now that I think of it, its probably best that the most powerful weapons are outside of trials or else there would be more "carry politics" with people paying/maneuvering for runs to get the best gear.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromThere should be something new, but it should also be in hard content. Not necessarily as grindy though to get the right piece. No need for the approach of finishing content 100 times. Then again, transmutation has done a lot to address that.
Solo arena is the best place for such gear because you can't pay for a carry.1 -
Giraffon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromI'm indifferent at this point because 2H count as 2 pieces and we have jewelry crafting, but I said yes to alternatives anyway because it has always bothered me that the wall these are hidden behind is for solo content when in fact this is an MMO.Giraffon - Beta Lizard - For the Pact!0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsNah. No way. Just have Maelstrom stuff drop from normal and vet.0 -
Marcusito✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsIf you can’t beat the arena you shouldnt have the benefits of the arena. If you can do it you are in a class of your own and should have gear that sets you a part.1 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭No, Other weapons should NEVER be as good as Maelstrom WeaponsWhat % ofthe player base can complete VMA?
Videos I've watched claim it is much easier for mag classes.0 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I would like to See New Alternative ( Just as Good ) Weapons as MaelstromI had a whole thread relating to this once upon a time. So the biggest argument against alternatives being thrown around here is the classic "if you aren't good enough to get VMA weapons, you don't need them". This is an incredibly false statement, for a number of reasons.
1) This game is not a solo game. VMA makes you really good in a solo environment, but it is the only endgame solo anything, trial dungeon or arena.
2) VMA does not teach you how to specialize in and excel at a certain role, which is a cornerstone of the MMO. It's why MMO exist, and why they're not just single player games. You work TOGETHER to accomplish a goal that cannot be accomplished alone.
3) This is anecdotal, but I run trials in pug / unorganized guild groups a lot. Many of those players have VMA clears. I've only cleared VMA a few times and struggle with it. In terms of overall trial performance (positioning correctly, doing mechanics, etc), I'm better than most of them. So I vehemently disagree with the notion that VMA skill strongly correlates to trial aptitude.
If I had to guess, most of the "VMA means you're good at the game" crowd is the same group who obsesses over Dark Souls and Bloodborne as the gospel on what makes a game good. They just want what they're familiar with, so they treat VMA as the highest honor and think of group content as an extension of it. Except it's not.3