Zos is making the same mistakes with ESO as Bungie did with Destiny 2

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

@rfennell_ESO @NewBlacksmurf

Anyway, DFC was the immediate predecessor to DAoC and I’m sure it shared many of those same similarities. DFC servers stuck around until sometime in 2004 when the EA fiasco happened and they were shuttered for good. DAoC might have got a reboot, but my beloved DFC is now just a Wikipedia entry and a Facebook support group for alumni of the game.

In conclusion, I don’t care why Mythic failed, but I do know it cost me my favorite pc game of all time, and I still harbor hard feelings for whomever caused its demise.

Sorry for that little trip down memory lane, but. All this reference to DAoC just triggered the past.

I never experienced DFC, but most of that made it into DAOC.

They even added a dungeon (an expansive huge pve dungeon) that was called Darkness Falls. It was controlled by one of the 3 factions at a time, when one of the other factions triggered (taking keeps, relics.. I don't recall exactly) it would cut you off from it and allow them in. It wouldn't kick you out... but stop you from respawning or zoning in while the other faction came in to hunt you down.

A whole lot of DFC/DAOC did make it into ESO.

The funny thing about Mythic was that they settled on Dark Age of Camelot because there was no licensing fees to use King Arthur and Camelot. What did them in was licensing Warhammer and just never getting the servers under control long enough for the game to succeed.

I didn't realize how much Firor was behind DAOC, I knew he was a lead dev.. but that Mark Jacobs guy sort of took all the attention. Now he's got that Camelot Unchained thing going and lol... well, let's just say that under a different handle I once trolled him by posting on the IGN forums (that's where they communicated officially) that their server hardware was so expensive that the game was going to be a 39.99 monthly sub and he had to respond saying what the sub was actually going to be... Not realizing that I was nothing but a troll trying to force him to reveal the actual sub price. Afterwards I pm'ed him about getting a beta invite and he responded in all caps "NOT ON A COLD DAY IN HELL". ;p

Salvas_Aren · October 2018

Would it count as an adult, sound and informed decision to blame everything on Wrobel?

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2018

Destiny 2 is in no way shape or form comparable to ESO. Im not a fan of the way ZOS goes about balancing the game and think there are better methods of approaching the issues they create. But their methods has been a thing since day one and we have been through almost 5 years of this. If ZOS was making the same mistakes as Bungie the game would have been dead a long time ago.

From my perspective this is just a differently flavored DOOM thread. Implying that ESO is going the direction of Destiny 2 by attempting to compare the handling of that game with this one.

Snipress · October 2018

I'm a fan of both games. They're the two games I play on a daily basis. Destiny 2 did have a pretty bad launch, and it took them a while to even get things somewhat right, but I still love it so much. The recent Forsaken DLC is so good, and they're actually listening to feedback. When I played ESO for the first time, I was so confused and stopped playing it. I ended up giving it another chance and tried my best to learn its mechanics (which I'm still learning and need help with, especially when it comes to builds). I really love ESO now, too. The PvP is so different. D2 can be annoying sometimes, but that's just because of all the overpowered weapons and supers people are taking advantage of. I've never done too much PvP in ESO, so I can't say much. I'm more of a PvE player in most games.

swirve · October 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The worst thing a community can do is blame other parts of the same community for issues with a game, or decisions a developer makes.

The Destiny franchise, has one of the nastiest trollish and downright mean spirited gaming communities on the planet, I don't think that is what Zenimax wants ESO community to be, I know many new players that were ran off because they didn't fit in the box of the uber elite players, and that is another reason Warframe is eating Destiny 2's lunch... anyone can play and enjoy it.

It's idiotic ( I'm talking about imaging the most ignorant group you can conceive and taking them down 30 intelligence points) in the extreme, to blame other players for anything Zenimax does.

No ones opinion on the forums is ever heard, the GF is on autopilot, because it's basically a playpen for the proles to vent in. So stop tearing at your own community and focus on the actual cause of these decisions the developers not understanding their own product.

Destiny has the community it deserves, in part due to the idiocy of the lead designer. Mechanics and graphics in Destiny are great, but the game decisions they implement are far far worse than ZoS.

SenorCrouch · October 2018

While the gameplay between the two games is vastly different, there are growing similarities between the studios on community relationship.

With Bungie's community, it was a daily struggle to fight with the dev team to try and get them to understand that the direction the team was taking the game was slow, mundane, and un-fun. People were asking, "Where are you taking Destiny?" and "What's the vision?" But the studio remained ever silent, holding things very close to the vest so much so they were extremely isolated from the community. As a sort of PR stunt the studio hired a couple well known, well respected members of the community to be go-betweens between community and dev team. But in the end it didn't matter, Bungie did what Bungie wanted despite community concerns. By the time Destiny 2 rolled out people were done, "You nerfed weapon slots, class abilities, and time to kill, wtf!? No one asked for any of this!" People went as far as beginning a boycott of the Eververse store until their concerns were actually being heard and addressed, "We pay you all this money only for you to ignore our concerns, fine we will just stop paying you."

Some of that sound familiar to anyone? And this is my concern. Cause for all the screw ups Bungie did that led to the Destiny 2 disaster, all of it had to start somewhere. "What's ZoS's vision of ESO?", "Unsubbing.", "Cast timers on damage shields!?", "Stop nerfing everything!", "I used to look forward to the patch notes."

Now I am not saying that both studios will walk the same path, just merely concerned that ZoS appears to be standing in a similar spot Bungie once did.

SenorCrouch · October 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The worst thing a community can do is blame other parts of the same community for issues with a game, or decisions a developer makes.

Agreed, but it is not surprising in Bungie's case. The problem with Bungie is they tried to forcefully attempt to marry PvP and PvE together and balance them as a set. Which is not possible. Why? Cause on the PvP side of things, people want balance and harmony. They want to have similar advantages no matter what gun they are using or ability they have slotted. On the PvE side, people want nuclear explosions, abilities that go BOOM and decimate an entire map. They want unlimited power and chaos. They want to be One Punch Man. If both factions were people, how in the hell would those two individuals be compatible?

To exacerbate the problem further, Bungie was always soooooooo silent on issues and the community at large became so enraged and whipped up into a mad frenzy that eventually the community turned on each other blaming PvEers or PvPers for the nightmare Destiny was going. Like a bull seeing red and no handler to calm it.