Summon Unstable Clannfear - incorrect cost for heal

LioraValkyrie · October 2018

At rank 4, summoning cost and tooltip for Summon Unstable Clannfear is 3423 magicka (wearing 7 heavy armour with no cost reductions). However, the cost of activating the clannfear to heal you is 6926 magicka which is a little over double the tooltip value! No other skill of similar effect, e.g. Dragon Blood, has such a huge cost, so one can only imagine that the bug is the cost and not the tooltip. As you are overhauling sorc pets in the next patch, this could be an ideal time to resolve this issue.

Shadowshire · October 2018

@LioraValkyrie : Please add the platform and megaserver on which you play TESO to your signature. ZOS cannot investigate the problem which you report without that information. (See Guidelines For Bug Report Forum.)

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

At rank 4, summoning cost and tooltip for Summon Unstable Clannfear is 3423 magicka (wearing 7 heavy armour with no cost reductions). However, the cost of activating the clannfear to heal you is 6926 magicka which is a little over double the tooltip value! No other skill of similar effect, e.g. Dragon Blood, has such a huge cost, so one can only imagine that the bug is the cost and not the tooltip. As you are overhauling sorc pets in the next patch, this could be an ideal time to resolve this issue.

Hmmm.... one of my sorcerers summons the Unstable Clannfear for healing, and I've never noticed the Magicka cost per se after ordering the familiar to use its healing ability. Not that I doubt the accuracy of your report, and it certainly does appear to be the result of a "bug".

Thanks for the heads-up on "overhauling sorc pets" in the next patch. That would make at least the third time that the developers have decided to "fix" something which is not broken -- instead of finding the bugs in the features and functions which are known to be broken, and fixing them instead. Guess which task is more fun? Which task requires more professional acumen and puzzle-solving ability? (I know the answers, I've been there and done that.)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2018

You are confuseing 2 different costs. The 3k is for summoning the clanfear. The 7k is for the heal. Not that this matters, next patch is lowering the cost of the heal to match the summoning, so this is a non-issue.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Shadowshire wrote: »

@LioraValkyrie : Please add the platform and megaserver on which you play TESO to your signature. ZOS cannot investigate the problem which you report without that information.

Give it a rest @Shadowshire ....
Are you getting paid to just post the obvious and the unnecessary?

The cost in magicka is the same across all platforms. This is actually a known issue with the clannfear pet, and you can see the magicka value when you have the pet summoned in the skill window when you highlight the skill to bring up the tooltip.
This is a relic from a long time ago where they thought a 35% heal was too powerful unless it cost a ton, especially when they thought pets would be better than they are.

It's not a bug, just old intended effects which should be rethought and changed.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You are confuseing 2 different costs. The 3k is for summoning the clanfear. The 7k is for the heal. Not that this matters, next patch is lowering the cost of the heal to match the summoning, so this is a non-issue.

What? Where? When? Why?
....no need for who and how.

That's good news.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You are confuseing 2 different costs. The 3k is for summoning the clanfear. The 7k is for the heal. Not that this matters, next patch is lowering the cost of the heal to match the summoning, so this is a non-issue.

What? Where? When? Why?
....no need for who and how.

That's good news.

Summon Unstable Clannfear (morph): Decreased the cost of the special attack from this morph by approximately 33%.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435633/pts-patch-notes-v4-2-0

So maybe not 3k, going by your numbers, it would be around 5.3k. still less.

LioraValkyrie · October 2018

I tested on PTS, the tooltip remains 3423 and is correct for the initial summon. The heal now costs 4617, which is indeed roughly 67% of the live cost of 6926. The cost of Green Dragon Blood is 4320, so the Clannfear heal is now in the same ballpark at least.

It appears the bug may actually be the tooltip (unfortunately).

Ahzek · October 2018

The bug is that when checking the skill cost from the skill menu it keeps showing you the cost for summoning the clannfear even when it is already summoned.
To check the tooltip for the heal summon the pet, enable your cursor and hover over the skill in your skillbar.

Shadowshire · October 2018

@Mystrius_Archaion : Please read the Guidelines For Bug Report Forum.

ZOS doesn't actually "need" to know the platform and megaserver on which the player plays TESO. However, without that information a considerable amount of time and effort (co$t) would be required just to determine whether it occurs on any of the eight combinations of platform and/or megaserver at all. So, the combination with which the player plays TESO is the one which they need to investigate. If they cannot find it there, they probably won't be able to find it anywhere else, so they quite likely won't look anywhere else.

The assumptions which underlie your criticism and comments are wrong. Evidently you don't know anything about confirming whether there are bugs in a complex software system, do you? Enough said?

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

I tested on PTS, the tooltip remains 3423 and is correct for the initial summon. The heal now costs 4617, which is indeed roughly 67% of the live cost of 6926. The cost of Green Dragon Blood is 4320, so the Clannfear heal is now in the same ballpark at least.

It appears the bug may actually be the tooltip (unfortunately).

Not a bug. It's intended. They want that 35% heal to cost a lot, more than other 35% heals like Dark Cloak for nightblades.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Shadowshire wrote: »

@Mystrius_Archaion : Please read the Guidelines For Bug Report Forum.

ZOS doesn't actually "need" to know the platform and megaserver on which the player plays TESO. However, without that information a considerable amount of time and effort (co$t) would be required just to determine whether it occurs on any of the eight combinations of platform and/or megaserver at all. So, the combination with which the player plays TESO is the one which they need to investigate. If they cannot find it there, they probably won't be able to find it anywhere else, so they quite likely won't look anywhere else.

The assumptions which underlie your criticism and comments are wrong. Evidently you don't know anything about confirming whether there are bugs in a complex software system, do you? Enough said?

So it's already posted at the top of the forums in a sticky so why do you need to repost it in every thread you post in?

Is this that "definition of insanity" stuff?

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Ahzek wrote: »

The bug is that when checking the skill cost from the skill menu it keeps showing you the cost for summoning the clannfear even when it is already summoned.
To check the tooltip for the heal summon the pet, enable your cursor and hover over the skill in your skillbar.

The skill bar in the skill menu, at the top, shows the correct tooltip and cost for the heal.
The skill LINE tooltip is the original clannfear summon tooltip.

LioraValkyrie · October 2018

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Because 35% of your health is a lot to have on demand, most tanks have around 35k health, that is a ~13k health, on demand. For green dragon blood to heal that much you have to be missing almost all of your health, as it heals for 33% of your missing heath. Nightblades dark cloak, that is 32% over 3 seconds, or 4 ticks of 8%. Wardens artic wind in 15% upfront and 5 ticks of 2%. Templars do not have a percentage based heal, the closest thing would be repentance, it heals for a flat ~3k per dead body. You can see the problem with that one though, it is either feast or famine.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Because 35% of your health is a lot to have on demand, most tanks have around 35k health, that is a ~13k health, on demand. For green dragon blood to heal that much you have to be missing almost all of your health, as it heals for 33% of your missing heath. Nightblades dark cloak, that is 32% over 3 seconds, or 4 ticks of 8%. Wardens artic wind in 15% upfront and 5 ticks of 2%. Templars do not have a percentage based heal, the closest thing would be repentance, it heals for a flat ~3k per dead body. You can see the problem with that one though, it is either feast or famine.

Nightblade's Dark Cloak heal actually ranks up also. I believe it goes to 35%, but the cost is still cheaper by far than the clannfear heal for no logical reason since 3 seconds isn't that long. The Dark Cloak cost is 3280 magicka at rank 4 according to uesp.net.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Because 35% of your health is a lot to have on demand, most tanks have around 35k health, that is a ~13k health, on demand. For green dragon blood to heal that much you have to be missing almost all of your health, as it heals for 33% of your missing heath. Nightblades dark cloak, that is 32% over 3 seconds, or 4 ticks of 8%. Wardens artic wind in 15% upfront and 5 ticks of 2%. Templars do not have a percentage based heal, the closest thing would be repentance, it heals for a flat ~3k per dead body. You can see the problem with that one though, it is either feast or famine.

Nightblade's Dark Cloak heal actually ranks up also. I believe it goes to 35%, but the cost is still cheaper by far than the clannfear heal for no logical reason since 3 seconds isn't that long. The Dark Cloak cost is 3280 magicka at rank 4 according to uesp.net.

according to this, http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Shadow_Cloak, it is 32%, they always list the rank IV of the skill on that page. what changes about the skill ranking up is the cost going down, not the perscentage of the heal. see here- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoSkills?&id=36351&skillname=Dark%20Cloak&skillline=&level=66&health=8744&magicka=7958&stamina=7958&spelldamage=1037&weapondamage=1037&showall=1

even if it did rank to 35%, it would still be 4 ticks. just at 8.75% of your health per tick instead of just 8%. much different then a instant 35% heal.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Because 35% of your health is a lot to have on demand, most tanks have around 35k health, that is a ~13k health, on demand. For green dragon blood to heal that much you have to be missing almost all of your health, as it heals for 33% of your missing heath. Nightblades dark cloak, that is 32% over 3 seconds, or 4 ticks of 8%. Wardens artic wind in 15% upfront and 5 ticks of 2%. Templars do not have a percentage based heal, the closest thing would be repentance, it heals for a flat ~3k per dead body. You can see the problem with that one though, it is either feast or famine.

Nightblade's Dark Cloak heal actually ranks up also. I believe it goes to 35%, but the cost is still cheaper by far than the clannfear heal for no logical reason since 3 seconds isn't that long. The Dark Cloak cost is 3280 magicka at rank 4 according to uesp.net.

according to this, http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Shadow_Cloak, it is 32%, they always list the rank IV of the skill on that page. what changes about the skill ranking up is the cost going down, not the perscentage of the heal. see here- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoSkills?&id=36351&skillname=Dark%20Cloak&skillline=&level=66&health=8744&magicka=7958&stamina=7958&spelldamage=1037&weapondamage=1037&showall=1

even if it did rank to 35%, it would still be 4 ticks. just at 8.75% of your health per tick instead of just 8%. much different then a instant 35% heal.

Actually, that site is not always up to date. It still has old values for other skills that have completely changed.
Many skills do update how much they heal with increased ranks, like Siphoning Strikes from the nightblade skills going from 1321 to 1452 on their site data. Some skills don't change cost either or anything apparently in game as I have noticed, which is strange and likely a bug.

Either way, the clannfear heal is WAY over the cost it should be. It's too expensive.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Because 35% of your health is a lot to have on demand, most tanks have around 35k health, that is a ~13k health, on demand. For green dragon blood to heal that much you have to be missing almost all of your health, as it heals for 33% of your missing heath. Nightblades dark cloak, that is 32% over 3 seconds, or 4 ticks of 8%. Wardens artic wind in 15% upfront and 5 ticks of 2%. Templars do not have a percentage based heal, the closest thing would be repentance, it heals for a flat ~3k per dead body. You can see the problem with that one though, it is either feast or famine.

Nightblade's Dark Cloak heal actually ranks up also. I believe it goes to 35%, but the cost is still cheaper by far than the clannfear heal for no logical reason since 3 seconds isn't that long. The Dark Cloak cost is 3280 magicka at rank 4 according to uesp.net.

according to this, http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Shadow_Cloak, it is 32%, they always list the rank IV of the skill on that page. what changes about the skill ranking up is the cost going down, not the perscentage of the heal. see here- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoSkills?&id=36351&skillname=Dark%20Cloak&skillline=&level=66&health=8744&magicka=7958&stamina=7958&spelldamage=1037&weapondamage=1037&showall=1

even if it did rank to 35%, it would still be 4 ticks. just at 8.75% of your health per tick instead of just 8%. much different then a instant 35% heal.

Actually, that site is not always up to date. It still has old values for other skills that have completely changed.
Many skills do update how much they heal with increased ranks, like Siphoning Strikes from the nightblade skills going from 1321 to 1452 on their site data. Some skills don't change cost either or anything apparently in game as I have noticed, which is strange and likely a bug.

Either way, the clannfear heal is WAY over the cost it should be. It's too expensive.

that site does not apply passives, like Soul Siphoner , which increases your healing done by 3% for each Siphoning ability slotted, nor does it take champion points into consideration. it just show the BASE stats of a skill, the ones before any percentage changes or passives kick in.

also everything that you dont agree with a bug?

LioraValkyrie · October 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Shadowshire I'm on PC/EU. I'll try to remember to mention this if posting a bug report in future.

@Ahzek Thanks for this insight. I'll check it out when I log on.

So it seems like this topic is closed, it is simply a tooltip bug. Thank you for all your comments and helping me to understand the clannfear situation. Due to the shield nerfs, I decided to change my petsorc DD into a petsorc tank, and was (understandably?) confused when confronted with the anomalously high cost for this health-scaling heal.

The real question becomes why this double-barred heal skill should currently cost 6900+ magicka, and will still cost more than any other class's comparable single-barred heal skill, even after next patch's cost reduction is taken into account.

Because 35% of your health is a lot to have on demand, most tanks have around 35k health, that is a ~13k health, on demand. For green dragon blood to heal that much you have to be missing almost all of your health, as it heals for 33% of your missing heath. Nightblades dark cloak, that is 32% over 3 seconds, or 4 ticks of 8%. Wardens artic wind in 15% upfront and 5 ticks of 2%. Templars do not have a percentage based heal, the closest thing would be repentance, it heals for a flat ~3k per dead body. You can see the problem with that one though, it is either feast or famine.

That's a fair point about the clannfear healing a flat amount, and not being based on missing health. Coupled with unkillable pets, that might justify the cost next patch in my mind. This patch, however, that cost is just too OP.