CP and Battlegrounds
kypranb14_ESO
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I know many people do not like CP, but I also know that many people do like CP.
Battlegrounds have been CP enabled, and CP disabled. I've seen people angry because CP was enabled, and seen people angry because it was disabled. You can't please everyone... Or can you?
I suggest making CP a Seasonal thing in Battlegrounds. (It could change monthly, weekly, or quarterly, even every three days. It doesn't matter) The point is though, that there would be enough people to play all the time, the meta would change with CP being enabled/disabled, which would artificially increase diversity, while maintaining enough of the population to keep Battlegrounds active.
I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks. I, personally, preferred CP enabled Battlegrounds, but have since adapted to Non-CP Battlegrounds and enjoy them too.
Edited by kypranb14_ESO on October 4, 2018 8:36PM Battlegrounds have been CP enabled, and CP disabled. I've seen people angry because CP was enabled, and seen people angry because it was disabled. You can't please everyone... Or can you?
I suggest making CP a Seasonal thing in Battlegrounds. (It could change monthly, weekly, or quarterly, even every three days. It doesn't matter) The point is though, that there would be enough people to play all the time, the meta would change with CP being enabled/disabled, which would artificially increase diversity, while maintaining enough of the population to keep Battlegrounds active.
I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks. I, personally, preferred CP enabled Battlegrounds, but have since adapted to Non-CP Battlegrounds and enjoy them too.
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Arthalion1✭✭✭No. It's great with no CP.
Battlegrounds work around objectives. With CP some players were just too tanky and made the game modes pointless.
I think no CP is great for battlegrounds.17 -
Jerdeh✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »I know many people do not like CP, but I also know that many people do like CP.
Battlegrounds have been CP enabled, and CP disabled. I've seen people angry because CP was enabled, and seen people angry because it was disabled. You can't please everyone... Or can you?
I suggest making CP a Seasonal thing in Battlegrounds. (It could change monthly, weekly, or quarterly, even every three days. It doesn't matter) The point is though, that there would be enough people to play all the time, the meta would change with CP being enabled/disabled, which would artificially increase diversity, while maintaining enough of the population to keep Battlegrounds active.
I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks. I, personally, preferred CP enabled Battlegrounds, but have since adapted to Non-CP Battlegrounds and enjoy them too.
Well there could always be non CP battlegrounds for those who prefer that and also CP enabled battlegrounds for those who would like that more. Players could decide that way which one they want to play.Been playing since betas 20149 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »
I agree, but the argument from people regarding this matter so far has been "there aren't enough people interested in battlegrounds to support both CP AND Non-CP Battlegrounds options".
My solution invalidates that argument, and allows for the best of both worlds even IF low population is a real problem.1 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Arthalion1 wrote: »No. It's great with no CP.
Battlegrounds work around objectives. With CP some players were just too tanky and made the game modes pointless.
I think no CP is great for battlegrounds.
I think no CP is great for PvP in general.6 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've always PvPed in CP cyrodiil. The other day I tried battlegrounds and it was a lot of fun - no lag and other players seem easier to kill.
I don't see anything wrong with current BG, so see no reason to change it.2 -
Qwazzy✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »Arthalion1 wrote: »No. It's great with no CP.
Battlegrounds work around objectives. With CP some players were just too tanky and made the game modes pointless.
I think no CP is great for battlegrounds.
I think no CP is great for PvP in general.
YES!Smallscale/Solo player on multiple servers
PC North America - CharactersAD Sorcerer - PvP 16
AD Templar - PvP 33
AD Nightblade - PvP 17
AD Dragonknight - PvP 19
AD Necromancer - PvP 22
EP Sorcerer - PvP 20
EP Templar - PvP 21
EP Nightblade - PvP 20
DC Sorcerer - PvP 16
DC Templar - PvP 24
DC Nightblade - PvP 18Xbox North America - CharactersAD Sorcerer - PvP 32
AD Sorcerer - PvP 20
AD Sorcerer - PvP 14
AD Templar - PvP 41
AD Templar - PvP 16
AD Templar - PvP 14
AD Warden - PvP 29
AD Nightblade - PvP 27
AD Dragonknight - PvP 18
AD Necromancer - PvP 14Xbox Europe - CharactersAD Sorcerer - PvP 42
AD Templar - PvP 36
EP Sorcerer - PvP 161 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is twofold:
1. You can't split BGs without making the population of both smaller. That means a longer queue and premades will have a bigger impact. There's not a huge influx of players that will come for CP BGs, we already saw that. So, do you really want to sit in the extra long queue to fight a smaller pool of players? That's what will happen if we have both types.
2. CP BGs have a high TTK and disporpotionately favor tanky builds. CP allows for tanky builds and tank/healer pairs that are very hard to kill in a 4v4v4 environment. Problem is, those tanky builds are pretty well balanced in CP Cyrodiil where they have to fight lots more players - so ZOS can't just rebalance them for BGs.
So CP was removed from BGs because it was too hard to balance with CP Cyrodiil and because the preponderance of tanky builds made matches slower with fewer deaths. ZOS (and many players) preferred the faster pace of No CP BGs where tanky builds didnt overperform in a 4v4v4 environment.5 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »
I think no CP is great for PvP in general.
I do too, however I also enjoy CP PVP. I'll be honest though, I've grown away from Cyrodiil PVP. The long horse rides, the drawn out keep battles, sitting around ganking people on their way to said keep battles.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »Arthalion1 wrote: »No. It's great with no CP.
Battlegrounds work around objectives. With CP some players were just too tanky and made the game modes pointless.
I think no CP is great for battlegrounds.
I think no CP is great for PvP in general.
Some people really enjoy No CP, and that's fine. I prefer it in Battlegrounds.
For Cyrodiil, I far prefer CP PVP in Vivec.0 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The problem is twofold:
1. You can't split BGs without making the population of both smaller. That means a longer queue and premades will have a bigger impact. There's not a huge influx of players that will come for CP BGs, we already saw that. So, do you really want to sit in the extra long queue to fight a smaller pool of players? That's what will happen if we have both types.
2. CP BGs have a high TTK and disporpotionately favor tanky builds. CP allows for tanky builds and tank/healer pairs that are very hard to kill in a 4v4v4 environment. Problem is, those tanky builds are pretty well balanced in CP Cyrodiil where they have to fight lots more players - so ZOS can't just rebalance them for BGs.
So CP was removed from BGs because it was too hard to balance with CP Cyrodiil and because the preponderance of tanky builds made matches slower with fewer deaths. ZOS (and many players) preferred the faster pace of No CP BGs where tanky builds didnt overperform in a 4v4v4 environment.
The first part of this comment is void because my solution isn't to split the queue, but to make all of Battlegrounds seasonally CP enabled/disabled.
The second part makes a good point, though I did not personally encounter this issue. However, September 2017 I swapped from Xbox to PC and entered the phase of regrinding game completion, CP, achievements, etc. So I may have simply missed the CP-Tank meta. (I did play BGs from the release of Morrowind until September on Xbox though.)0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »The problem is twofold:
1. You can't split BGs without making the population of both smaller. That means a longer queue and premades will have a bigger impact. There's not a huge influx of players that will come for CP BGs, we already saw that. So, do you really want to sit in the extra long queue to fight a smaller pool of players? That's what will happen if we have both types.
2. CP BGs have a high TTK and disporpotionately favor tanky builds. CP allows for tanky builds and tank/healer pairs that are very hard to kill in a 4v4v4 environment. Problem is, those tanky builds are pretty well balanced in CP Cyrodiil where they have to fight lots more players - so ZOS can't just rebalance them for BGs.
So CP was removed from BGs because it was too hard to balance with CP Cyrodiil and because the preponderance of tanky builds made matches slower with fewer deaths. ZOS (and many players) preferred the faster pace of No CP BGs where tanky builds didnt overperform in a 4v4v4 environment.
The first part of this comment is void because my solution isn't to split the queue, but to make all of Battlegrounds seasonally CP enabled/disabled.
The second part makes a good point, though I did not personally encounter this issue. However, September 2017 I swapped from Xbox to PC and entered the phase of regrinding game completion, CP, achievements, etc. So I may have simply missed the CP-Tank meta. (I did play BGs from the release of Morrowind until September on Xbox though.)
The first part is more a problem for the people saying "Well, just offer both!" I used to be in that camp myself, until ZOS went to CP BGs, and I experienced the 2nd point and the balance issues that went with it.
If you do play CP PVP in Cyrodiil and you want to experience what CP BGs were like, find a resource where there's a couple tanky players farming PUGs. That's pretty much what it was like - frustrating attempts with random teams to try to take down tanky players working together. In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call more players to clear out the farm group. Not so much in BGs.1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »kypranb14_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »The problem is twofold:
1. You can't split BGs without making the population of both smaller. That means a longer queue and premades will have a bigger impact. There's not a huge influx of players that will come for CP BGs, we already saw that. So, do you really want to sit in the extra long queue to fight a smaller pool of players? That's what will happen if we have both types.
2. CP BGs have a high TTK and disporpotionately favor tanky builds. CP allows for tanky builds and tank/healer pairs that are very hard to kill in a 4v4v4 environment. Problem is, those tanky builds are pretty well balanced in CP Cyrodiil where they have to fight lots more players - so ZOS can't just rebalance them for BGs.
So CP was removed from BGs because it was too hard to balance with CP Cyrodiil and because the preponderance of tanky builds made matches slower with fewer deaths. ZOS (and many players) preferred the faster pace of No CP BGs where tanky builds didnt overperform in a 4v4v4 environment.
The first part of this comment is void because my solution isn't to split the queue, but to make all of Battlegrounds seasonally CP enabled/disabled.
The second part makes a good point, though I did not personally encounter this issue. However, September 2017 I swapped from Xbox to PC and entered the phase of regrinding game completion, CP, achievements, etc. So I may have simply missed the CP-Tank meta. (I did play BGs from the release of Morrowind until September on Xbox though.)
The first part is more a problem for the people saying "Well, just offer both!" I used to be in that camp myself, until ZOS went to CP BGs, and I experienced the 2nd point and the balance issues that went with it.
If you do play CP PVP in Cyrodiil and you want to experience what CP BGs were like, find a resource where there's a couple tanky players farming PUGs. That's pretty much what it was like - frustrating attempts with random teams to try to take down tanky players working together. In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call more players to clear out the farm group. Not so much in BGs.
Good point, I have seen those people who farm pugs in Cyrodiil. So I do know what you're talking about now. Thank you.0 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I know it sounds like a lot to handle, but i think in the long run it would make the CP lovers happy, while allowing the CP haters to keep their 50%, without harming the overall health of battlegrounds.0
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Latios✭✭✭✭✭Why limit it? Just leave both modes enabled. I'd never play CP battlegrounds, but why can't people enable it if they want to do so?The Eon Pokémon.0 -
webrgesner✭✭✭✭Keep battleground active? First of all. HOW BOUT REMOVING THE MMR.
I got bored on my pve healer so i qued for BG then BOOM instant que.
I get on my stamplar ill be in que for 30 min and wasting my arteum food waiting on que.
My only pvp character cant even play BG cuz i have a high MMR. WHICH IS BS!
Now im stuck playing PvP in cyroddil where DC dont even have a keep and just filled with red zergs. The only decent pvp for me, when dc are gated (which is almost all the time on xbox vivec) is BG which i cant even get a que for. And when i do its all a bunch of premades whooping my team. How bout removing MMR?
I havent been playing BG like i use to because of that reason... waiting for que... Its almost as bad as queing as a dps for a vet dungeon.
And to be honest with you my homie and i just play other games now. Were burnt on eso with the BSEdited by webrgesner on October 4, 2018 10:38PM1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Why limit it? Just leave both modes enabled. I'd never play CP battlegrounds, but why can't people enable it if they want to do so?
I made this post as a compromise to the people who are claiming that Battleground population isn't high enough to support having both modes enabled simultaneously.webrgesner wrote: »Keep battleground active? First of all. HOW BOUT REMOVING THE MMR.
I got bored on my pve healer so i qued for BG then BOOM instant que.
I get on my stamplar ill be in que for 30 min and wasting my arteum food waiting on que.
My only pvp character cant even play BG cuz i have a high MMR. WHICH IS BS!
Now im stuck playing PvP in cyroddil where DC dont even have a keep and just filled with red zergs. The only decent pvp for me, when dc are gated (which is almost all the time on xbox vivec) is BG which i cant even get a que for. And when i do its all a bunch of premades whooping my team. How bout removing MMR?
I havent been playing BG like i use to because of that reason... waiting for que... Its almost as bad as queing as a dps for a vet dungeon.
And to be honest with you my homie and i just play other games now. Were burnt on eso with the BS
This comment isn't related to my post at all.0 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zenimax knows the answer for this question themselves, i think you have noticed it also, when they enabled CP, the number of players in BGs dropped to an extreme1 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd really rather ZOS completely overhaul the CP system so that their endgame progression system doesn't have to be excluded from certain content.1 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »I'd really rather ZOS completely overhaul the CP system so that their endgame progression system doesn't have to be excluded from certain content.
This please.
No-CP PvP content is horribly balanced but CP content is unaccessible for anyone who's played the game for less than a year. Rework the entire system.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CP is more balanced because of Proc sets. Address the proc sets, and I'll be fine with non-CP, but as it is now I prefer CP.0 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭CP is more balanced because of Proc sets. Address the proc sets, and I'll be fine with non-CP, but as it is now I prefer CP.
True but I don't think it's just proc sets, it's set bonuses in general. One of my builds has no proc sets but can absolutely delete people in BGs if I get a good crit. CP gradually diminishes the influence of gear and in doing so slightly slows down the time to kill (which is a good thing).
If they're not going to completely rework CP system, they need to look at adjusting Battlespirit to mimic CP combat in no-CP. I quick and dirty fix would be to just increasing the health it provides. Diminishes the effectiveness of both healing and damage and buffs the effectiveness of positioning and avoidance.Edited by lucky_dutch on October 5, 2018 2:29PM0 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭CP is more balanced because of Proc sets. Address the proc sets, and I'll be fine with non-CP, but as it is now I prefer CP.
Yeah, proc sets are much more annoying in non-CP.lucky_dutch wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I'd really rather ZOS completely overhaul the CP system so that their endgame progression system doesn't have to be excluded from certain content.
This please.
No-CP PvP content is horribly balanced but CP content is unaccessible for anyone who's played the game for less than a year. Rework the entire system.
In response to this, I think that CP is pretty balanced at the moment. I think what causes the issues is that, for CP to work well in a 4v4v4 environment, premades are pretty much mandatory.
A person who defiles would need lots of points into the CP that increases Defile effectiveness.
A person who heals is going to want some points into blessed, so on so fourth.
It's all about having dedicated rolls, similar to PVE. I understand that this pretty much excludes most of the playerbase, because they simply refuse to socialize long enough to create a team. However, that is a player problem, not a CP problem.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I dislike CP BGs is because you can get paired with 200 something CP players against 4 780s.
Ugh to that.
No wonder I haven't seen gesner lately. 2nd top tier player I know of that isn't playing ESO anymore
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SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »I know many people do not like CP, but I also know that many people do like CP.
Battlegrounds have been CP enabled, and CP disabled. I've seen people angry because CP was enabled, and seen people angry because it was disabled. You can't please everyone... Or can you?
I suggest making CP a Seasonal thing in Battlegrounds. (It could change monthly, weekly, or quarterly, even every three days. It doesn't matter) The point is though, that there would be enough people to play all the time, the meta would change with CP being enabled/disabled, which would artificially increase diversity, while maintaining enough of the population to keep Battlegrounds active.
I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks. I, personally, preferred CP enabled Battlegrounds, but have since adapted to Non-CP Battlegrounds and enjoy them too.
Or why not have both much like cyrodil let it run for a dlc cycle (3 months) and then close down the meat popular
Same with cyrodil campaigns
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Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why not a toggle? I don’t understand the feast vs. famine logic behind ZoS design. Give players options, the more the merrier and they’ll be delighted.0 -
RD065✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Why not a toggle? I don’t understand the feast vs. famine logic behind ZoS design. Give players options, the more the merrier and they’ll be delighted.
My take is high CP players can enjoy non CP battlegrounds. But low CP players won't enjoy CP battlegrounds.2
