And when you're on it ban the kill bots in cyrodiil too. They get me every time😉

Hämähäkki wrote: »

kill bots in cyrodiil

How I wish the bots were in a PvP area...

Glurin wrote: »

Hämähäkki wrote: »

And when you're on it ban the kill bots in cyrodiil too. They get me every time😉

Killbots aren't that hard to deal with. Just send wave after wave of your own men against them until they reach their kill limit and shut down.

Yesterday I waved at them a couple of times. They never waved back 😢

A couple of days ago I've encountered a bot-train farming wolfs in Glenumbra. I reported them, and then started to run in front of them and kill wolfs so bots couldn't get any loot. I last only ~40 minutes, but at least I know they didn't get these 500 rubedo leather.

ruengdet2515 wrote: »

1 account = 1 bot = 59$
10 account = 10 bot = 590$
100 account = 100 bot = 5900$
1000 account = 1000 bot = .....
Why ban ?

They have to buy new accounts if they want to keep botting

1 bot = 1 account = 59$
10 bot = 10 account = 590$
100 bot = 100 account = 5900$
1000 bot = 1000 account = .....

Why aren't they banning?

@Skraticus but in theory they're doing that when players see and report them. I know it's the cool thing to say "it's not my job" these days but it's how MMO's have worked for many years.
We as players are online and in the game active much more than the GM teams can be, so if we actually bother to report bots then they should in theory be investigated and banned.

During some serious times they have had GM staff come online and sort issues. There was a thread within the last year I believe where someone filmed a GM online with their character.

Sadly ZOS is super tight lipped about their security teams. I've pestered them numerous times on the issues of bots and exploits but they won't really confirm much of how their internal team works. The most information I know is they do have a team and they do actively ban bots daily, but more replace them just as fast as they're banned.

I am not against ZOS hiring some more GM staff to actively battle bots, but at the same time if we all do our little bit it helps. We can also do our bit by making sure we're not supporting bots.
If anyone who has ever purchased gold or been involved in RMT complains about bots then I hope they understand that the bots are there because of people doing actions like they did.

Don't get involved in RMT, tell your friends not to get involved in it, report people you know involved in it.

Skraticus wrote: »

Turelus

I've been out of the loop for a few years now, so I don't know how they operate. Do they actually have to manually log in (either to the game or their systems) to ban individuals after "X" number of reports have been received, or is it automatic?

Seems like it might be beneficial to set up some kind of algorithm for automatic bans. One that would obviously be geared towards bots.

Either way, you're right. Players have to do their part both in reporting and NOT utilizing what the bots produce themselves. Unfortunately, I don't think that's ever going to happen because there are always cheaters. If there's a way, people will find it and do it. All the rules, safety precautions, and algorithms in the world can't make a jerk not be a jerk. Such is life, I'm afraid.

I'm fairly sure they can handle most things from outside of the game client. This would make sense for how they've handled exploit bans in the past as well.
They might however log in to check on bot trains reported or such though, not sure how much they can see from outside the client.

I am no programmer, at all by any means, but why can they simply not put some coding in which looks at player activity? Such as that if a player is standing still and light/heavy attacking for a certain period of time, then it gets flagged for ZOS to look into? From the bots I saw on PS4 one late night killed bears in Stormhaven, they were all stationary and light attacking, it just seems to me there should be some code which can flag this behavior as it differentiates between a bot and a real player. I have never stayed still for 10 minutes light attacking thin air until a bear re spawns. Then again like I said, I do not know programming, perhaps this is not doable, or a breech of privacy when tracking player movements.

qbit wrote: »

Sounds like a few really level-headed folks here willing to take on the burden of having final say in a permanent ban from the game.

I’ll be sure to logout when I go afk rather than stand next to a node for 10 minutes. Because if I’m not there to respond to the “are you a bot” question, I come back to my PC with a perma ban. Sounds legit.

So is it okay when I’m asked if I’m a bot and reply that I am? Because I really am. A new one with advanced AI programmed to also troll the forums to add to the realism.

But seriously, you can’t make bans based on the criteria you consider a bot. Ever. And the logic behind that is simple. Every single criteria you can list that you consider a bot, I can make an account and play with it in such a way that exhibits those without actually using any bot software. So the idea of banning someone without due process based on your own opinion is what we call tyranny. And I hope you stay off juries if you live in the US.

Not sure if you are responding to me, but I never said perma ban, or even ban, simply flagged to look into the behavior. Why would you sit still for 10 minutes light attacking thin air while there was nothing spawned?

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

@summitxho Some of those bots are more complicated. Those that I saw, for example, were running around and while overall route was the same there were slight deviations depending on the position of the surrounding mobs. This might be harder for an automated system to detect.

Probably the most efficient way so far for ZOS is to collect our reports. So if you see bots (and make sure those are really bots) - don't stay silent and report them. You can do that in game. Just chase them with pressed F button and choose Report Player option. Type detailed description why you report them and submit.

Fair enough, I do not know much about bots at all, just wish there was something more than relying on players to report.

qbit wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Sounds like a few really level-headed folks here willing to take on the burden of having final say in a permanent ban from the game.

I’ll be sure to logout when I go afk rather than stand next to a node for 10 minutes. Because if I’m not there to respond to the “are you a bot” question, I come back to my PC with a perma ban. Sounds legit.

So is it okay when I’m asked if I’m a bot and reply that I am? Because I really am. A new one with advanced AI programmed to also troll the forums to add to the realism.

But seriously, you can’t make bans based on the criteria you consider a bot. Ever. And the logic behind that is simple. Every single criteria you can list that you consider a bot, I can make an account and play with it in such a way that exhibits those without actually using any bot software. So the idea of banning someone without due process based on your own opinion is what we call tyranny. And I hope you stay off juries if you live in the US.

Not sure if you are responding to me, but I never said perma ban, or even ban, simply flagged to look into the behavior. Why would you sit still for 10 minutes light attacking thin air while there was nothing spawned?

I was responding to anyone that is now or has previously called for bans of people hey deem to be bots. And to answer your last question: I spam light attacks at nothing for 10 minutes because I can and it’s not a violation of TOS.

It’s really that simple.

The bot problem is a statistical analysis problem requiring data that only ZOS has. And it requires a lot of processing and storage to store the metrics needed to actually reliably detect it. Which is why you don’t see anything done about it. Humans simply cannot be reliable bot detectors. Given the emotion demonstrated by people that post about it and comments assuming only a bot would use a nonsensical name or spam an ability near a boss spawn at a dolmen, that’s tells me we definitely don’t need humans evaluating it.

Well you have much more free time than I then. But thank you for answering my question, I guess there are some people out there who like to sit still and spam light attacks, just because they can... Hey your cup of tea go for it.

Will a player who travels all across Summerset (almost every night) to the same places to steal and kill be considered a bot even when they use wayshrines and mounts to get around?

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I haven’t seen any bots yet along my travels, and I do occasionally go to Summerset to steal bc that’s where a bunch of items are that I know aren’t going to be too difficult to get (and that’s the only place I know that has anything decent).

qbit wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Sounds like a few really level-headed folks here willing to take on the burden of having final say in a permanent ban from the game.

I’ll be sure to logout when I go afk rather than stand next to a node for 10 minutes. Because if I’m not there to respond to the “are you a bot” question, I come back to my PC with a perma ban. Sounds legit.

So is it okay when I’m asked if I’m a bot and reply that I am? Because I really am. A new one with advanced AI programmed to also troll the forums to add to the realism.

But seriously, you can’t make bans based on the criteria you consider a bot. Ever. And the logic behind that is simple. Every single criteria you can list that you consider a bot, I can make an account and play with it in such a way that exhibits those without actually using any bot software. So the idea of banning someone without due process based on your own opinion is what we call tyranny. And I hope you stay off juries if you live in the US.

Not sure if you are responding to me, but I never said perma ban, or even ban, simply flagged to look into the behavior. Why would you sit still for 10 minutes light attacking thin air while there was nothing spawned?

I was responding to anyone that is now or has previously called for bans of people hey deem to be bots. And to answer your last question: I spam light attacks at nothing for 10 minutes because I can and it’s not a violation of TOS.

It’s really that simple.

The bot problem is a statistical analysis problem requiring data that only ZOS has. And it requires a lot of processing and storage to store the metrics needed to actually reliably detect it. Which is why you don’t see anything done about it. Humans simply cannot be reliable bot detectors. Given the emotion demonstrated by people that post about it and comments assuming only a bot would use a nonsensical name or spam an ability near a boss spawn at a dolmen, that’s tells me we definitely don’t need humans evaluating it.

Well you have much more free time than I then. But thank you for answering my question, I guess there are some people out there who like to sit still and spam light attacks, just because they can... Hey your cup of tea go for it.

I don't do that. That would be stupid. But we can't ban those that want to do that without first making it a violation of the TOS. And that wouldn't make a lot of sense to say that you face a ban if: you stand near crafting nodes and harvest them, have random character name, carry a great sword, run the same route all day long, spam light attacks or abilities at dolmen boss spawns, don't respond to chat, move towards bear traps when people lay them down, etc., etc., etc.

There is already an line in the TOS against using bots. So why would you take these reasonable (albeit ridiculous) actions in game and make them bannable offenses? Who has the right to define which actions are considered botting besides ZOS? And why would they ban accounts without solid and unbiased statistical evidence to prove it?

Well, those were rhetorical questions. And you will continue to have a bot problem until ZOS can afford to process, store, and analyze such data on every account like travel routes for the last 24 hours and input action timing (simple examples, because those can all have artificial entropy introduced by bot authors to hide from algorithmic detection).

It's a very complex problem to solve technically without creating a legal and PR nightmare when they do ban an account falsely in a court jurisdiction that frowns upon that kind of thing.

But I never said ban. I said flagged, gotta get ban off your brain if your responding to me as I never said that. An employee looks into flagged accounts deeper to see if they have tendencies which match up with bot patterns. If they see that account has only been in Stormhaven in that similar spot through the entire accounts life, then it gives more credence to the fact this could be a bot. Its a process, not a be all end all decision of a ban. Regardless, as pointed out earlier, it would not work on more complex bots.