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Fake role ***....and an idea on how to deal with it
notyuu
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Today I have tried to get my random daily dungeon done...17 times...and yet every single time it has been rendered not possible due to one [or more] pricks showing up in as fake role [on vet mind you..like..wtf] as you can picture it is frustrating to no end...but..all is not lost, I have an idea on how to fix it...introducing
ROLE EFFECTS: when you are in a dungeon under a certain role you are given certain buffs [and debuffs] to make you suitable for your *** job
Healer: -80% damage done, +30% major/minor buff duration on self and targets +15% healing done
Tank: -50% damage done, +10% less damage taken, +taunt on all heavy attacks, +60% more resources gained on heavy attack
DPS: +5% damage done, +tether [basically a synergy that can be used to drag them back to the rest of the group in the event t hey run off past all the mobs...like an ***]
result: Unless you are suited for the role you queue as, you're just going to get slapped with debuffs and have a bad time [to the point where you might as well not bother]
if you guys can think of a method that's a little less heavy handed while also being this effective at keeping the fakes way, then lets hear it.
ROLE EFFECTS: when you are in a dungeon under a certain role you are given certain buffs [and debuffs] to make you suitable for your *** job
Healer: -80% damage done, +30% major/minor buff duration on self and targets +15% healing done
Tank: -50% damage done, +10% less damage taken, +taunt on all heavy attacks, +60% more resources gained on heavy attack
DPS: +5% damage done, +tether [basically a synergy that can be used to drag them back to the rest of the group in the event t hey run off past all the mobs...like an ***]
result: Unless you are suited for the role you queue as, you're just going to get slapped with debuffs and have a bad time [to the point where you might as well not bother]
if you guys can think of a method that's a little less heavy handed while also being this effective at keeping the fakes way, then lets hear it.
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jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hate fake roles but I'd hate this even more. Sorry.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job38 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hate fake roles but I'd hate this even more. Sorry.
Ok, and what do you hate about it? the fact that it would make fake roles suffer horribly while not really effecting those that are doing the role proper? or the fact that it won't let you dart off in a dungeon? I mean I did state quite clearly that said effects would only be applied to you WHILE YOU ARE IN THE DUNGEON1 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't PUG. Instead do your daily random with friends/guildies that fit the roles you actually want (some do want 3 DPS and 1 healer/tank). As far as trying to fix the current random PUG'ness, these proposed changes would make the content so much easier. Tanks would never die because healers are really OP and increase buffs, while DPS would do even more damage. And the tether thing is just a D move.5 -
reprosal✭✭✭✭✭Healers shouldn’t be penalized for being able to assist with DPS. There is just too many healers out there who don’t know how to play offensively as well in a 4 man.13
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notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healers shouldn’t be penalized for being able to assist with DPS. There is just too many healers out there who don’t know how to play offensively as well in a 4 man.
Yeah, but the number of fake healers faaar outweighs the number of healers who would really suffer from a dps loss in a dungeon like this...but that aside, what's your suggestion for removing the fake *** from the queue?1 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate fake roles but I'd hate this even more. Sorry.
I agree with jr here. I mean, are we going to check tanks for Ebon before we let them queue?
Not saying this isn't a problem but the reasons why a game attracts thoughtless human fragments is largely due to ESO being a massively single player game with some multiplayer features.6 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭Well, I came up with the perfect compromise. So as we all know, age verification on websites is the most effective content blockers in existence. All because of this known fact: nobody lies on the internet. Therefore, we can make the user enter their role when they try to select the role they want. So If I clicked healer, this would appear:
Enter your role to proceed:
And BAM, now they must tell the truth and enter their true role!Edited by codestripper on October 2, 2018 6:59PMSince everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]12 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I cant imagine the debuffs on the healer and tanks damage helping groups who's DPS is already low.
A -80% debuff on a healer if they're doing only 15k damage is a bigger loss in DPS than the 5% buff on 2 x 20k DDs.
The tether is pretty funny though. As much as I'd like to see that, I could also see our short-winded brethren and sisters being snatched toward a group as they arrive at a chest or doing a quest.Edited by Agenericname on October 2, 2018 7:03PM1 -
weedgenius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wish I knew. I main a healer and I've definitely seen my fair share of fake tanks from the group finder. I just leveled a tank and queued for a pledge last week and had my first experience with a fake healer. Wondering to myself why I'm struggling with sustain and why I haven't gotten any heals. Then one of the dps up and leaves the group without saying a word. Start wondering to myself why he did that... only then do I look at the group and realize the healer is a 780 mag sorc. Hm okay, he could just be a bad healer... but now I'm suspicious. I start paying more attention and yep. He's just a dps. He doesn't even have a resto staff slotted on his back bar FFS.
One of the (real) dps is 780 but the other is like 200 cp and not putting out a ton of damage. I mean, he's doing fine, but not enough that we're going to easily burn through this vet dungeon without heals. I said something to the dude in text chat like "yay fake healer" and he starts going off "lol l2p u dont need a healer for this" and "if u cant clear this without a healer u should quit." We get to the final boss and ....can you predict what happens? Of course we wipe. Both (real) dps drop group immediately and now it's just me and the fake healer standing there. This dude has the nerve to write "lol"PS4 NA
Better Homes & Gardens1 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agenericname wrote: »I cant imagine the debuffs on the healer and tanks damage helping groups who's DPS is already low.
A -80% debuff on a healer if they're doing only 15k damage is a bigger loss in DPS than the 5% buff on 2 x 20k DDs.
The tether is pretty funny though. As much as I'd like to see that, I could also see our short-winded brethren and sisters being snatched toward a group as they arrive at a chest or doing a quest.
it's less that and more "fake healer McactuallyaDD" can't show up and just DD things as per normal...instead they will be slapped with a dps debuff...which won't effect a healer..as they will be..ya know..healing....and buffing....
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codestripper✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »I cant imagine the debuffs on the healer and tanks damage helping groups who's DPS is already low.
A -80% debuff on a healer if they're doing only 15k damage is a bigger loss in DPS than the 5% buff on 2 x 20k DDs.
The tether is pretty funny though. As much as I'd like to see that, I could also see our short-winded brethren and sisters being snatched toward a group as they arrive at a chest or doing a quest.
it's less that and more "fake healer McactuallyaDD" can't show up and just DD things as per normal...instead they will be slapped with a dps debuff...which won't effect a healer..as they will be..ya know..healing....and buffing....
The thing is though, healers still need to assist with group damage. A decent healer can do 10-20% of the damage in a normal group.Since everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]6 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭codestripper wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »I cant imagine the debuffs on the healer and tanks damage helping groups who's DPS is already low.
A -80% debuff on a healer if they're doing only 15k damage is a bigger loss in DPS than the 5% buff on 2 x 20k DDs.
The tether is pretty funny though. As much as I'd like to see that, I could also see our short-winded brethren and sisters being snatched toward a group as they arrive at a chest or doing a quest.
it's less that and more "fake healer McactuallyaDD" can't show up and just DD things as per normal...instead they will be slapped with a dps debuff...which won't effect a healer..as they will be..ya know..healing....and buffing....
The thing is though, healers still need to assist with group damage. A decent healer can do 10-20% of the damage in a normal group.
no they don't NEED to... a half decent group burns things down fast enough...plus if the healer is managing 20% of the group dps...then eaither something is very wrong, or the group has very *** dps.6 -
SakuraRush✭✭✭Or we could be given an "avoid this player" option and the game will no longer match them with you. You'll still get fakes but after a short while of everyone avoiding them they'll be unable to pug.9 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SakuraRush wrote: »Or we could be given an "avoid this player" option and the game will no longer match them with you. You'll still get fakes but after a short while of everyone avoiding them they'll be unable to pug.
Now THAT is a good idea6 -
mobicera✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer 3 DPS 1 tank runs and often use que finder in a preformed group why should we be punished in our prefered group setting because some idiot fake ques solo. Zos basically designs dungeons without the need for a healer not our fault if we choose not to run with one. In short horrible and one sided idea.4 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭codestripper wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »I cant imagine the debuffs on the healer and tanks damage helping groups who's DPS is already low.
A -80% debuff on a healer if they're doing only 15k damage is a bigger loss in DPS than the 5% buff on 2 x 20k DDs.
The tether is pretty funny though. As much as I'd like to see that, I could also see our short-winded brethren and sisters being snatched toward a group as they arrive at a chest or doing a quest.
it's less that and more "fake healer McactuallyaDD" can't show up and just DD things as per normal...instead they will be slapped with a dps debuff...which won't effect a healer..as they will be..ya know..healing....and buffing....
The thing is though, healers still need to assist with group damage. A decent healer can do 10-20% of the damage in a normal group.
no they don't NEED to... a half decent group burns things down fast enough...plus if the healer is managing 20% of the group dps...then eaither something is very wrong, or the group has very *** dps.
This whole discussion is aimed at PUG groups, therefore yes, many groups it is very normal for the healer to pull that kind of damage. It's rare to find good DPS in the dungeon finder. My healer does about 12k DPS, if we assume both DPS can pull 30k, that adds up to 72k. that's about 16.7% of the group's damage. Like I said, this is perfectly normal in PUG groups.
Edit: That's also assuming the other 2 DPS can pull 30k....which....ha good luck with that.Edited by codestripper on October 2, 2018 7:16PMSince everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]4 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's a terrible idea, sorry. You will effectively be removing any kind of flexibility from group composition shoohorning the players into STRICTLY performing that role only. Other MMO's does that yes, but the flexibility for roles and build is almost a trademark of ESO, so no thank you.
I don't even think this drastic proposal would solve it, those fake role people will still sign up relying on the other members to do the job; but then they will just be even more useless than they are now.6 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer 3 DPS 1 tank runs and often use que finder in a preformed group why should we be punished in our prefered group setting because some idiot fake ques solo. Zos basically designs dungeons without the need for a healer not our fault if we choose not to run with one. In short horrible and one sided idea.
On normal..eh whatever they are comically easy to the point of being boring so anything works on those
but on vet..doubly so for DLC dungeons I prefer runs that don't end with everybody dying because it decided to pick bloodroot forge and there's no healer so everybody melts into a puddle of molten death0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healers shouldn’t be penalized for being able to assist with DPS. There is just too many healers out there who don’t know how to play offensively as well in a 4 man.
I used to run with a few DPS skills. But now I just provide a metric a$$ ton of buffs, lol.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
mobicera✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer 3 DPS 1 tank runs and often use que finder in a preformed group why should we be punished in our prefered group setting because some idiot fake ques solo. Zos basically designs dungeons without the need for a healer not our fault if we choose not to run with one. In short horrible and one sided idea.
On normal..eh whatever they are comically easy to the point of being boring so anything works on those
but on vet..doubly so for DLC dungeons I prefer runs that don't end with everybody dying because it decided to pick bloodroot forge and there's no healer so everybody melts into a puddle of molten death
I was speaking of vet most notably vet dlc, sorry should have clarified, than again I rarely pug anymoreEdited by mobicera on October 2, 2018 7:21PM0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭SakuraRush wrote: »Or we could be given an "avoid this player" option and the game will no longer match them with you. You'll still get fakes but after a short while of everyone avoiding them they'll be unable to pug.
Now THAT is a good idea
Nope, this will be abused for all sorts of chenanigans that has nothing to do with fake roles. Bad idea.
though with a modification to this suggestion I may be in favor: if the "avoid player" option means that the player selecting the option is the one being left out of the group matching. That way it wont be able to be misused.Edited by Jayman1000 on October 2, 2018 7:28PM0 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭My only suggestion in this is for 4-man dungeons to actually require the roles. Dungeons like vDC II, does not require a tank. Most of the non-DLC dungeons, does not require a healer. The reason why most DLC dungeons normally would have people in "not fake" roles is because you actually need a healer and tank for these dungeons. I think it is unwise to put buffs and debuffs on certain roles, due to the fact that people in this game play differently. There are healers that are pure support, or healers that are purely all heals (I don't know why you would, but I've seen a few), or healers that actually does damage. I think when instances are done so that players understand why they need "x" role to complete the dungeon/pledge/trial, then people will queue properly."We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]0 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »That's a terrible idea, sorry. You will effectively be removing any kind of flexibility from group composition shoohorning the players into STRICTLY performing that role only. Other MMO's does that yes, but the flexibility for roles and build is almost a trademark of ESO, so no thank you.
I don't even think this drastic proposal would solve it, those fake role people will still sign up relying on the other members to do the job; but then they will just be even more useless than they are now.
Exactly that. The type of human scum that sign up for fake roles don't care that they are not performing, that's the whole crux of their thinking, they just want to be carried and get the XP at the end. So being further penalised will mean nothing to these vermin who deserve to be killed in a fire, it will simply penalise the genuine players in the group. The simple solutions are best.
Vote kick and doing content with chums and guildies.
Edited by FlyingSwan on October 2, 2018 7:31PM1 -
firedrgn✭✭✭✭✭Well sometimes you have to fake it. But its agreed upon first.
Sometimes u just need cannon fodder so u can run the dungeons.
Sometimes you get a great group.
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are two extremely good solutions to fake roles (or any problem member really) already in place
1. Vote to kick. Failing that, you are somehow in the minority. Leave the group and try again, unfortunately with penalty.
2. Group with known people. Guilds, friends, zone and don't worry about fake roles
Don't expect the queue system to be a replacement for a premade or even partial premade group.4 -
Hateanthem✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »Jayman1000 wrote: »That's a terrible idea, sorry. You will effectively be removing any kind of flexibility from group composition shoohorning the players into STRICTLY performing that role only. Other MMO's does that yes, but the flexibility for roles and build is almost a trademark of ESO, so no thank you.
I don't even think this drastic proposal would solve it, those fake role people will still sign up relying on the other members to do the job; but then they will just be even more useless than they are now.
Exactly that. The type of human scum that sign up for fake roles don't care that they are not performing, that's the whole crux of their thinking, they just want to be carried and get the XP at the end. So being further penalised will mean nothing to these vermin who deserve to be killed in a fire, it will simply penalise the genuine players in the group. The simple solutions are best.
Vote kick and doing content with chums and guildies.
My goodness that anger and ego.
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SakuraRush✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »There are two extremely good solutions to fake roles (or any problem member really) already in place
1. Vote to kick. Failing that, you are somehow in the minority. Leave the group and try again, unfortunately with penalty.
2. Group with known people. Guilds, friends, zone and don't worry about fake roles
Don't expect the queue system to be a replacement for a premade or even partial premade group.
Vote doesn't work when the fake is part of a duo.
The leave penalty punishes the legitimate player.
Group finder exists so one isn't reliant on known players. It is poorly set up so as to allow selfish players ruin things for others.4 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you solo PUG, the best tool to use is your own judgement. It usually takes less than 15 mins to determine what you're signing up for with your group and if it's viable.Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SakuraRush wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »There are two extremely good solutions to fake roles (or any problem member really) already in place
1. Vote to kick. Failing that, you are somehow in the minority. Leave the group and try again, unfortunately with penalty.
2. Group with known people. Guilds, friends, zone and don't worry about fake roles
Don't expect the queue system to be a replacement for a premade or even partial premade group.
Vote doesn't work when the fake is part of a duo.
The leave penalty punishes the legitimate player.
Group finder exists so one isn't reliant on known players. It is poorly set up so as to allow selfish players ruin things for others.
Yes, it can be a pain sometimes. That's why I suggested leaving the group if your vote to kick doesn't stick. The person likely wouldn't have fun with that group anyway. Yes, the penalty is unfortunate and could probably be removed or shortened significantly, but this game and the difficulty of the content associated with the queue system (vet and vet DLC mostly) is just not appropriate for a random queue type system. The content is balanced against elite premades in some cases, but the queue system can't take that into consideration by design. It works well enough for random normal, but even that breaks down when you get DLC normal and you are 60% of the group dps.
Is it a fault of the queue system? Partly. I see it more as a fault in the difficulty of the content compared to the skill level of those that use the queue system. It doesn't sync up most of the time. You can alter the rules of the queue over and over, but if the content is scaled out of reach for a majority, the groups will still struggle.0
