Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
The perfect way to balance this game
Frawr
✭✭✭✭✭
In my opinion, the following simple change below would give everyone a roll on the battlefield
Scale healing strength and all damage shields on a player's health pool and spell/weapon damage.
I know that the following has been said countless times before.
Problem
Currently, stamina-based heals increase based on max stam and magicka-based heals scale based on max magicka. Damage also scales off those 2 stats. That means that players who invest in maximum damage also gain maximum healing. What? That, in my opinion, is the source of all of the trouble in balancing this game.
Solution
This game needs balance. In simple terms, balance = Rock / Paper / Scissors.
Rock = mitigation
Paper = healing
Scissors = damage
Paper and Scissors currently run on the same stats. The simplest way to make pvp more balanced is to split that up. Players which wish to go maximum into damage burst should be sacrificing on healing and mitigation, meanwhile, the tanky players who sacrifice magicka / stamina to increase their health pools sacrifice both damage and healing.
By scaling healing to a character's health pool:
- healers can go for a maximum health pool and weapon/spell damage. this will make them more effective healers but less effective damage dealers. They will survive longer and provide more benefit to their group but sacrifice their damage as a result.
- dps can go maximum stam / magicka. They will have still high burst damage but they will have less effective heals. They will still have healing but will (ideally) need a health-specced friend to really save them from sticky situations
- tanks can go maximum health and resistances, making them hard to kill because they have mitigation and healing, but, giving them low damage so that their roll is to focus attention but not do damage. In pvp, for example, a taunt could function that when a tank taunts a player, he/she then takes the damage from that player for 10 seconds. This would be epic because it would give the tank a real opportunity to be valuable and save his/her friends in sticky situation.
With these changes, you could then allow stamina regen when tanking again because the tanky player would not also have insane damage. This might mean that a tank can indeed tank a few players. That tank cannot kill those players but those players cannot kill that tank. Balance achieved
Edited by Frawr on September 24, 2018 10:12AM Scale healing strength and all damage shields on a player's health pool and spell/weapon damage.
I know that the following has been said countless times before.
Problem
Currently, stamina-based heals increase based on max stam and magicka-based heals scale based on max magicka. Damage also scales off those 2 stats. That means that players who invest in maximum damage also gain maximum healing. What? That, in my opinion, is the source of all of the trouble in balancing this game.
Solution
This game needs balance. In simple terms, balance = Rock / Paper / Scissors.
Rock = mitigation
Paper = healing
Scissors = damage
Paper and Scissors currently run on the same stats. The simplest way to make pvp more balanced is to split that up. Players which wish to go maximum into damage burst should be sacrificing on healing and mitigation, meanwhile, the tanky players who sacrifice magicka / stamina to increase their health pools sacrifice both damage and healing.
By scaling healing to a character's health pool:
- healers can go for a maximum health pool and weapon/spell damage. this will make them more effective healers but less effective damage dealers. They will survive longer and provide more benefit to their group but sacrifice their damage as a result.
- dps can go maximum stam / magicka. They will have still high burst damage but they will have less effective heals. They will still have healing but will (ideally) need a health-specced friend to really save them from sticky situations
- tanks can go maximum health and resistances, making them hard to kill because they have mitigation and healing, but, giving them low damage so that their roll is to focus attention but not do damage. In pvp, for example, a taunt could function that when a tank taunts a player, he/she then takes the damage from that player for 10 seconds. This would be epic because it would give the tank a real opportunity to be valuable and save his/her friends in sticky situation.
With these changes, you could then allow stamina regen when tanking again because the tanky player would not also have insane damage. This might mean that a tank can indeed tank a few players. That tank cannot kill those players but those players cannot kill that tank. Balance achieved
0
-
XxCaLxX✭✭✭✭✭A tank and healer shouldn’t be focused on damage either way. If healing was based on health then tanks and healers would never die in pvp and would make pve a hell of a lot more easier than wards ever did.1 -
Frawr✭✭✭✭✭If healing was based on health then tanks and healers would never die in pvp and would make pve a hell of a lot more easier than wards ever did.
that comes down to balancing damage and healing.
if a tank can tank 10 people then increase the effectiveness of damage or decrease the effectiveness of resistance.
If a tank cannot tank 1 person then increase the effectiveness of health / resistances.
With the current system, this type of balancing is impossible because if you increase damage, you also increase healing.
Edited by Frawr on September 24, 2018 10:10AM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭When you increase healing solelyvia health, won't that make high health tanks the better healers than medium health/ medium spell damage healers?Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 24, 2018 10:09AM0 -
Frawr✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »When you increase healing solelyvia health, won't that make high health tanks the better healers than medium health/ medium spell damage healers?
Yeah. I guess that it should be a mix of spell/weapon damage and health instead of spell/weapon damage & stam/mag.
I don't think it should be entirely health. It would just need tweaking to allow a tank to be tanky without having high damage.
Remember, if done properly then players could also potentially ignore tanks in pvp because they'd be no threat. Hence my suggestion of changing the pvp functionality of taunt.
Will edit.Edited by Frawr on September 24, 2018 10:13AM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's more about damage/sustain/resistance game. All we need is balancing around that triangle. You can have 2 of those maxed, never all of them. When I see some stamina builds that can have 5k weapon damage, 30k resists and still sustain pretty well that's bugs me a bit - these are not fake stats, I have a friend in my guild who creates such builds, he could kill tripple shieldstacking sorc on his stamDK pretty much just like that. The best part is his comment about this game:
"I like this game because I'm pretty bad player but in ESO I can be carried by EQ".I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's more about damage/sustain/resistance game. All we need is balancing around that triangle. You can have 2 of those maxed, never all of them. When I see some stamina builds that can have 5k weapon damage, 30k resists and still sustain pretty well that's bugs me a bit - these are not fake stats, I have a friend in my guild who creates such builds, he could kill tripple shieldstacking sorc on his stamDK pretty much just like that. The best part is his comment about this game:
"I like this game because I'm pretty bad player but in ESO I can be carried by EQ".
Let me guess: 7th legion, Blood Spawn, Bone Pirates?0 -
ayu_fever✭✭✭✭✭the single most effective way to balance ESO:
remove all pvp from the gamePS4 NA
all characters are members of the ebonheart pact master race
BLOOD FOR THE PACT
main character:
Rebekah Straight-Fire, breton templar healer: THE FATEBRINGER (dungeons, trials, pvp)
—MERIDIA’S LUSTRANT— 1100+CP; alliance rank 21 (major grade 1); Rebekah is the most devoted and loyal follower of the lady of infinite energies and the highest ascendant of meridia’s purified legion and was forged from meridia’s brilliant radiance of purity.
other meta toons-
Alexa Straight-Fire, breton warden healer: THE ALCHEMIST (dungeons, trials)
Sasha Straight-Fire, nord dragonknight tank: THE UNBREAKABLE (dungeons, trials)
Freyja Straight-Fire, nord warden tank: THE ICEBERG (dungeons, trials)
Ororo Straight-Fire, dark elf magsorc: THE SHOCKWAVE (dungeons, trials)
Michonne Straight-Fire, redguard stamDK: THE EVISCERATOR (dungeons, trials)
just for fun toons-
Rhea Straight-Fire, wood elf warden stam healer: THE RANGER
Shiva Straight-Fire, high elf warden ice mage: THE CRYOMANCER
Morgana Straight-Fire, dark elf necromancer solo play: THE DEATHSINGER
Lucille Straight-Fire, dark elf nightblade solo play: THE VOIDWALKER
Diana Straight-Fire, nord templar tank: THE CLERIC
Falsetto Straight-Fire, orc stamsorc werewolf: THE THUNDERHOWL1 -
ItsMeToo✭✭✭✭✭Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.
Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Edited by ItsMeToo on September 30, 2018 5:52AMFYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.
Balance is a "Bad" thing.Is the glass half full or half empty?
I say, "Get a smaller glass."2 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭separate pvp & pve or disable certain sets & abilities in pvp = balance, but the devs refuse = morons0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not a good idea. Results: Combo healer/tanks instead of combo healer/dps. In effect, you would push healers out of business. My healer would simply become a healer/tank.
Even more so, where is the problem? Who exactly is complaining that healers can do enough dps to survive? Perhaps what is needed is a few skills allowing tanks to have some damage abilities that are health based so soloing for them is not so tedious.Edited by AcadianPaladin on September 24, 2018 11:33AMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭agree about healing. My magplar deal 28k dps (more with some group buffs) and i actually don't like it.
Healers, like tanks, must deal 5-8k dps, not more! This will take away fake healers (like me, lol) and bring back:
- healer etiquette;
- low queue time
- in some DPS loss, ZOS can focus more on support buffs exclusively available to Resto.
But the real problem is - ZOS don't care about anything we talk here )0 -
Frawr✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »Not a good idea. Results: Combo healer/tanks instead of combo healer/dps. In effect, you would push healers out of business. My healer would simply become a healer/tank.
Even more so, where is the problem? Who exactly is complaining that healers can do enough dps to survive? Perhaps what is needed is a few skills allowing tanks to have some damage abilities that are health based so soloing for them is not so tedious.
As i said, the problem is that stats that buff DPS also buff survivability but stats that buff mitigation do not buff survivability.
My comments are about balancing PVP to make healers and tanks more valued, not less. It is about encouraging group play.
If you turn up in PVP as a healer/tank, the point of my proposal is that you'll do no damage. So i can ignore you and move on because you're no threat. Balance achieved. You can then interfere with DPS classes by taunting them to actually 'tank' them ! Now you have a role to play in PVP by saving your friends. WInner. In my opinion, at endgame in PVE and PVP, tanks don't need DPS. they need to be more tanky.
ZOS can balance the new player / leveling experience however they want. That part of the game has little bearing on the endgame activities because it is about a story experience not a min/max competitive experience.
I haven't worked out detailed calculations for how this would work and nor am I going to bother. The point is to find a way to make roles more relevant and reduce the prevalence of super high DPS who can also super heal themselves.
@Coatmagic i agree that some skills should work differently e.g. taunt skills forcing the tank to take the damage from the player that they taunted.separate pvp & pve or disable certain sets & abilities in pvp = balance, but the devs refuse = moronsagree about healing. My magplar deal 28k dps (more with some group buffs) and i actually don't like it.
Healers, like tanks, must deal 5-8k dps, not more! This will take away fake healers (like me, lol) and bring back:
- healer etiquette;
- low queue time
- in some DPS loss, ZOS can focus more on support buffs exclusively available to Resto.
But the real problem is - ZOS don't care about anything we talk here )
Agree to be honest.
I also do think that ZOS has an agenda of pushing sets rather than pushing abilities. I think that this is because they can put a set into a DLC to help sales.
This is itself a balancing issue though because for each time they make gameplay worse to put in their new set, they will lose players who dislike it as they gain players who pay for it.
Obviously they have numbers for players that unsub due to bad changes and one must assume that they actually look at that metric. I wonder how many sales they gain through this crappy Armour Set-based approach vs sales they lose through taking the skill out of gameplay to balance it.
I alone took a 2 year (ish) hiatus from the game and, in that time, didn't pay ESOplus. That's what, £240 that they didn't get from me due to their design decisions?Edited by Frawr on September 24, 2018 12:25PM0 -
ItsMeToo✭✭✭✭✭stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »
Thank you spell checker.FYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.Balance is a "Bad" thing.
Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.
Balance is a "Bad" thing.Is the glass half full or half empty?
I say, "Get a smaller glass."0
