How is the Warden now?

Gulnagel · September 2018

I've taken a break and planning on returning. And want to get back on my warden DPS, thinking of doing a stamina build. Is warden still the worst DPS?

Turelus · September 2018

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Turelus · September 2018

Gulnagel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

From my understanding they've improved their non-bear damage, but lowered bear damage. This is to make the classes overall damage output less reliant on the bear. This is because the bear doesn't work well in most trials or end game content.

Gulnagel · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

pauli133 · September 2018

Gulnagel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

The goal is to have viable DPS builds that don't require the bear.

Glurin · September 2018

pauli133 wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

The goal is to have viable DPS builds that don't require the bear.

Just to expand a little on that, the idea is that if you use the bear, your damage should remain roughly right about where it is now. But if you don't use the bear, you should see a damage increase. At least, that's what they hope will happen.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

Stamwarden is now even more of a BIS god at PvP.
Especially in 1vX

Tryxus · September 2018

Stamina Wardens have some of the highest DPS parses for next update and are top tier in PvP as well
MagDen DPS on the other hand still lingers are the bottom for DPS

themaddaedra · September 2018

Safe and silent.

abigfishy · September 2018

Magica Wardens are the worst DPS class by far and ZOS just too a giant dump on them to make them even worse with this bear nerf.

Warden Tanks and Warden Healers are ok and probably 3rd best and 2nd best in those roles. I don't have a Stam Warden DPS so not sure about that.

Zathras · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

From my understanding they've improved their non-bear damage, but lowered bear damage. This is to make the classes overall damage output less reliant on the bear. This is because the bear doesn't work well in most trials or end game content.

So, in other words, the change was made to appease the 1% of endgame players. Not that Wardens were overpopulating trials and leaderboards, or that cries were filling the forums for bear nerfs.

What it does do, for the rest of the players in PvE who liked the bear (you know, the iconic animal they marketed the Warden on), is nuke their viability by a 30% decrease.

Imagine if the Sorc's Matriarch were nerfed by 30%. Yeah. Oh, but wait, they increased something else by 1-2% to make up for it. For the Warden, you will only see an overall dps increase if you load your bar with animals (beetles, flies, and the bird). If you play a Warden, then you know that isn't the best setup by any stretch. So, again, what were they thinking.

It's all well and good to keep parroting what Gina said. It's not that great of a change outside of words.

The Warden didn't need to be spanked, especially for the marginal usage of a few players at the highest tier of the game.

Goratesque · September 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

Safe and silent.

Thank Arkay's beard!

NoTimeToWait · September 2018

Tryxus wrote: »

Stamina Wardens have some of the highest DPS parses for next update and are top tier in PvP as well
MagDen DPS on the other hand still lingers are the bottom for DPS

@Tryxus
Any sources? What kind of parses? Other classes (stamsorc, magplar) easily parse 45-48k dps without effort next patch.
I doubt that Stamden gets 50k dps (or even 45k for that matter)

Zathras · September 2018

(double post. sorry)

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Stamina Wardens have some of the highest DPS parses for next update and are top tier in PvP as well
MagDen DPS on the other hand still lingers are the bottom for DPS

@Tryxus
Any sources? What kind of parses? Other classes (stamsorc, magplar) easily parse 45-48k dps without effort next patch.
I doubt that Stamden gets 50k dps (or even 45k for that matter)

You should check out YouTube and sort by upload date. You'd be surprised

mague · September 2018

Zathras wrote: »

So, in other words, the change was made to appease the 1% of endgame players. Not that Wardens were overpopulating trials and leaderboards, or that cries were filling the forums for bear nerfs.

What it does do, for the rest of the players in PvE who liked the bear (you know, the iconic animal they marketed the Warden on), is nuke their viability by a 30% decrease.

Wait, the bears damage was lowered. The bears damage is a base value like 1150/5550 that is turned down to 800/3890

He still gets buffed by many things and, as far as i know, gets +1% per animal from Advanced Species. I dont see many using the Falcon. But now its a passive of 8% damage and the falcon is a slotted animal. I didnt play on PTS but i think the bear will be almost the same. Give or take a few. Plus he will be a cheap escape and/or source of heal throught the change of Nature's Grasp. And those changes work for stam and mag wardens.

RomanCaesar · September 2018

I have seen roughly a thousand decrease on my Breton Magicka Warden from PS4 live to PTS week 2 on my parses. I went from 35.5 to 36.5K area to 34.5 to 35.5K area. I have my PTS character set up exactly the same as my live character.

Reasons i believe i am parsing lower are:
#1 i am using elemental weapon on live and the cast cost was increased on PTS. Birds has been the better DPS play for me on PTS actually. The decrease is more than above if i use elemental weapon on PTS.

#2 The bear nerf. That said i do still hit higher with the bear then with fiery rage, or using northern storm, etc.

#3 Lowering the netch 20% (60 to 40) from week 1 PTS to week 2 PTS was also a factor from being a bit lower than last weeks PTS parses for me.

I do not use birds of prey for the minor berserk, as i wouldn't slot it otherwise. Healers combat prayer does the same buff.

Disclaimer. I play magsorc and nightbades alot more often than the magden. But thought i would share some observations i had.

Turelus · September 2018

Zathras wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

From my understanding they've improved their non-bear damage, but lowered bear damage. This is to make the classes overall damage output less reliant on the bear. This is because the bear doesn't work well in most trials or end game content.

So, in other words, the change was made to appease the 1% of endgame players. Not that Wardens were overpopulating trials and leaderboards, or that cries were filling the forums for bear nerfs.

What it does do, for the rest of the players in PvE who liked the bear (you know, the iconic animal they marketed the Warden on), is nuke their viability by a 30% decrease.

Imagine if the Sorc's Matriarch were nerfed by 30%. Yeah. Oh, but wait, they increased something else by 1-2% to make up for it. For the Warden, you will only see an overall dps increase if you load your bar with animals (beetles, flies, and the bird). If you play a Warden, then you know that isn't the best setup by any stretch. So, again, what were they thinking.

It's all well and good to keep parroting what Gina said. It's not that great of a change outside of words.

The Warden didn't need to be spanked, especially for the marginal usage of a few players at the highest tier of the game.

If you were not doing end game trials or dungeons then then bears damage decrease isn't really going to matter. If you were doing those things the bear probably wasn't applying all the damage any way.

Prabooo · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

If you were not doing end game trials or dungeons then then bears damage decrease isn't really going to matter. If you were doing those things the bear probably wasn't applying all the damage any way.

Then why nerf it? Everywhere I see a justification for the nerf, I find the same contradiction

Sparr0w · September 2018

@Turelus @Gulnagel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKsfSM1H4x0

Turelus · September 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

Turelus Gulnagel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKsfSM1H4x0

Might need more to go with than just a video.

If it's just about the parse numbers then Warrden can do great on a dummy, but try applying the same in trials where the bear is constantly under CC or dead (or in the case of AA not even following you to the boss platforms without resummoning).

Prabooo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

If you were not doing end game trials or dungeons then then bears damage decrease isn't really going to matter. If you were doing those things the bear probably wasn't applying all the damage any way.

Then why nerf it? Everywhere I see a justification for the nerf, I find the same contradiction

Because they didn't want it to be that strong in the cases you can use it, I don't have all the answers for you. I can only say what we know and how we know it functions.

Sparr0w · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Turelus Gulnagel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKsfSM1H4x0

Might need more to go with than just a video.

If it's just about the parse numbers then Warrden can do great on a dummy, but try applying the same in trials where the bear is constantly under CC or dead (or in the case of AA not even following you to the boss platforms without resummoning).

Prabooo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

If you were not doing end game trials or dungeons then then bears damage decrease isn't really going to matter. If you were doing those things the bear probably wasn't applying all the damage any way.

Then why nerf it? Everywhere I see a justification for the nerf, I find the same contradiction

Because they didn't want it to be that strong in the cases you can use it, I don't have all the answers for you. I can only say what we know and how we know it functions.

Since the bear got nerfed and the class in general got a buff you will only pull slightly lower running the typical dawny/ballista combination.

I ran 2 parses on a magden and parsed identical with and without the bear.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · September 2018

Yeah, I mean the more I think about it, the more I'm okay with the Warden changes.

Bottom line, pet AI isn't there yet. Pets still behave very stupidly in MMOs, and that's just across the board. They're fun, and cool for RP / casual purposes, but they are rarely good in endgame because of how unreliable and unpredictable they are.

So it sucks that bear gameplay got a nerf, but I think it is for the greater good. People who want to still get that "animal companion" style gameplay can do so, albeit with slightly less dps, while those of us who want to do better dps in endgame with other ultimates can now do so. No more need to worry about whether or not our bears are on the right target / alive.

I think stamina warden is still ahead of magicka by a good margin, but overall both are getting buffs if you ignore the bear so I think this class *gazes at my magsorc and sighs* is heading in the right direction.

POps75p · September 2018

like crap. a worthless move on my part to even create one, wo is me

Turelus · September 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Turelus Gulnagel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKsfSM1H4x0

Might need more to go with than just a video.

If it's just about the parse numbers then Warrden can do great on a dummy, but try applying the same in trials where the bear is constantly under CC or dead (or in the case of AA not even following you to the boss platforms without resummoning).

Prabooo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

If you were not doing end game trials or dungeons then then bears damage decrease isn't really going to matter. If you were doing those things the bear probably wasn't applying all the damage any way.

Then why nerf it? Everywhere I see a justification for the nerf, I find the same contradiction

Because they didn't want it to be that strong in the cases you can use it, I don't have all the answers for you. I can only say what we know and how we know it functions.

Since the bear got nerfed and the class in general got a buff you will only pull slightly lower running the typical dawny/ballista combination.

I ran 2 parses on a magden and parsed identical with and without the bear.

Thanks, sorry wasn't able to stream it well from here so was looking at snippets and the final parse.

Cadbury · September 2018

From what I am hearing, Magdens now potentially out-dps Magsorcs by a very small margin on PTS.

I'm sceptical to this, personally.

Glurin · September 2018

Zathras wrote: »

Imagine if the Sorc's Matriarch were nerfed by 30%. Yeah. Oh, but wait, they increased something else by 1-2% to make up for it. For the Warden, you will only see an overall dps increase if you load your bar with animals (beetles, flies, and the bird). If you play a Warden, then you know that isn't the best setup by any stretch. So, again, what were they thinking.

Won't argue that, but as far as what they are thinking, well, if you look at some of the other changes it becomes fairly clear.

Animals are DPS, plants are heals, and frost is tanks. Period. End of story.

Can't say I'm fond of the idea myself, but that's the direction they are pushing with these changes.

max_only · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Zathras wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

It's probably still not competitive with some other classes if you're trying to play it as the best, but it's getting some buffs in the next update and doing better each time they buff it.

Outside of leaderboard trials it's fine to play now, and after Murkmire will be better.

Why are they nerfing the bear? It doesn't seem like a buff ☹

From my understanding they've improved their non-bear damage, but lowered bear damage. This is to make the classes overall damage output less reliant on the bear. This is because the bear doesn't work well in most trials or end game content.

So, in other words, the change was made to appease the 1% of endgame players. Not that Wardens were overpopulating trials and leaderboards, or that cries were filling the forums for bear nerfs.

What it does do, for the rest of the players in PvE who liked the bear (you know, the iconic animal they marketed the Warden on), is nuke their viability by a 30% decrease.

Imagine if the Sorc's Matriarch were nerfed by 30%. Yeah. Oh, but wait, they increased something else by 1-2% to make up for it. For the Warden, you will only see an overall dps increase if you load your bar with animals (beetles, flies, and the bird). If you play a Warden, then you know that isn't the best setup by any stretch. So, again, what were they thinking.

It's all well and good to keep parroting what Gina said. It's not that great of a change outside of words.

The Warden didn't need to be spanked, especially for the marginal usage of a few players at the highest tier of the game.

If you were not doing end game trials or dungeons then then bears damage decrease isn't really going to matter. If you were doing those things the bear probably wasn't applying all the damage any way.

No one complains about that slow, inaccurate, constantly missing Pooh-bear doing too much damage.
I purchased this extra thing for the bear.
It’s an ultimate. On both bars.
It needs to be buffed if anything. He needs to be a big badaboom bear. Make him maul less often if it gets too much but decrease his damage?

Mediocre!

The Elder Scrolls Online

How is the Warden now?

Best Answers