ZOS nerfing Annulment was bad for Sorcs and NBs but I think if they nerfed either the Sorc shield or Annulment but left the other the way it was then I think others would be less angry about the nerfs. On top of that Magicka NBs got hit pretty hard with the 35% healing nerf to their main spammable DPS heal and then the cast time nerf to Annulment. I think if ZOS just nerfed Annulment but left the NB heal and Sorc shield alone till they had a good idea for a change not a nerf the player base would have been far more receptive than just an all out nerf to both classes.

Interesting idea. In the lore most wards start out instantly but with little protection and it ramps up to full after a bit. They also tend to drain magicka when hit and maintaining the ward while not being hit does inflict a cost but not a super duper high one.

Zoal_AUG wrote: »

Should zenimax move away from cast time and in order to put shields in pair with other defensive mechanics remove recovery from shields like roll dodging blocking mist form.etc
Like when u have a shield active u cannot have magicka recovery.

I'd say they should just increase the cost of the spell. For example, Annulment is 4,000+ Magicka. Make it 10k. Can't spam too great if the spells cost too much to cast. 3 shields and you are basically out of mana.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire honestly. Also, cloak has way less penalties than shields ever had but whatever.

idk wrote: »

Pole is to limiting. It is as poorly thought out as Zos' solution for shields.

A debuff that persists until 4 seconds after the shield dissipates or is destroyed would be an effective choice, hinder shield stacking while rewarding those that strategically use shields.

A 6 second (more so a 9 second) penalty on everything for using a shield is poorly thought out. After all the example of blocking only lasts as long as the player holds up block. We do not have the same control with shields.

It's a troll. Pretty easy to see that

kathandira wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Zoal_AUG wrote: »

Should zenimax move away from cast time and in order to put shields in pair with other defensive mechanics remove recovery from shields like roll dodging blocking mist form.etc
Like when u have a shield active u cannot have magicka recovery.

I'd say they should just increase the cost of the spell. For example, Annulment is 4,000+ Magicka. Make it 10k. Can't spam too great if the spells cost too much to cast. 3 shields and you are basically out of mana.

And Cloak, Scales, Shimmering Shield, and Breath of Life all follow suit, yes?

If any of those are given a new cast time, then i'd vote to just increase the cost.

And if you think any of these, including damage shields, deserve either thing then I'd recommend you actually play the game before posting on the forums.

kathandira wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Zoal_AUG wrote: »

Should zenimax move away from cast time and in order to put shields in pair with other defensive mechanics remove recovery from shields like roll dodging blocking mist form.etc
Like when u have a shield active u cannot have magicka recovery.

I'd say they should just increase the cost of the spell. For example, Annulment is 4,000+ Magicka. Make it 10k. Can't spam too great if the spells cost too much to cast. 3 shields and you are basically out of mana.

And Cloak, Scales, Shimmering Shield, and Breath of Life all follow suit, yes?

If any of those are given a new cast time, then i'd vote to just increase the cost.

And if you think any of these, including damage shields, deserve either thing then I'd recommend you actually play the game before posting on the forums.

Thanks, good talk.

Yup. Hope you eventually figure out that after Morrowind no one, not even Nightblades, can eat a 10k magicka cost. People can barely sustain the 4k

kathandira wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Zoal_AUG wrote: »

Should zenimax move away from cast time and in order to put shields in pair with other defensive mechanics remove recovery from shields like roll dodging blocking mist form.etc
Like when u have a shield active u cannot have magicka recovery.

I'd say they should just increase the cost of the spell. For example, Annulment is 4,000+ Magicka. Make it 10k. Can't spam too great if the spells cost too much to cast. 3 shields and you are basically out of mana.

And Cloak, Scales, Shimmering Shield, and Breath of Life all follow suit, yes?

If any of those are given a new cast time, then i'd vote to just increase the cost.

And if you think any of these, including damage shields, deserve either thing then I'd recommend you actually play the game before posting on the forums.

Thanks, good talk.

Yup. Hope you eventually figure out that after Morrowind no one, not even Nightblades, can eat a 10k magicka cost. People can barely sustain the 4k

Point

---

Your head.

I understand your point. Your point is that you'd rather make the game equally unplayable but at least not have cast times.

I’m tired of the endless nerfs ZOS throw out patch after patch after patch.

My characters feel weaker and less fun to play at nearly 900cp than they did when my first character dinged 50 during the first new year double exp celebrations.

Sustain is in such a terrible place right now, I don’t think any class could sustain shielding up consecutively a la streak if costs were to be increased.

I get that shield stacking may have been an issue to some I n pvp and an issue making *some* healers in pve feel neglected; but a cast time of 1 second plus latency in a fast paced combat game where telegraphs for enemy abilities sometimes require F1 driver reaction times simply cannot be justified. There has to be a better way.

Ps; I’m a filthy casual Stam DK main.

idk wrote: »

Pole is to limiting. It is as poorly thought out as Zos' solution for shields.

A debuff that persists until 4 seconds after the shield dissipates or is destroyed would be an effective choice, hinder shield stacking while rewarding those that strategically use shields.

A 6 second (more so a 9 second) penalty on everything for using a shield is poorly thought out. After all the example of blocking only lasts as long as the player holds up block. We do not have the same control with shields.

and see, I cannot answer the poll because I either have to agree with Zos or OP. All those answers only say those two things.

This is a step in the right direction, but I think it won't work out too well - what if there's just 1k shield left and there's a big burst coming? This is just putting more and more strain on magicka builds' resources when it really isn't necessary.

Slight detour. A shield gives all of its mitigation up front, riiiight at the start and then disappears after 6 sec, whereas (say) vigor may have a similar tooltip to shields (factoring in crits etc), but mitigates incoming damage over time. Vigor can then be layered over a lot of other defenses in order to give the player a window to attack. Shields on the other hand can only be layered with each other (and lately armor res), and have much more clearly defined windows of attack and defense.

So, why not decrease shield strength by...I don't know, 25%. This is just off the top of my head, so bare with me. 12k shield becomes 9k. The 3k lost becomes 6k and is allocated out to the magicka build like a HoT over a duration. This will allow 'em to have more interaction with their health bar and benefit from various heals available, instead of being in a state of 'Are shields up? Proceed. Are shields down? Get them up immediately', which would then make it difficult to layer shields on top of healing-based defenses, as you etiher didn't take damage to your health or....when you did, it was pretty massive and you're gonna use healing ward/burst defense skill, and spamming some layered defense (MUtagen, for example) would get you killed.

Back to 9k shield and 6k allocated out over a duration. This would make shields less strong when spammed, and slightly less strong if recast back to back (25% reduction can be adjusted as ya like, of course it'd require some mathing out and this is just an example). But AFTER a certain point, you'd be getting more shield than before, resulting in some nice risk/reward.

This will also allow shield users' health pool to be touched more often, but in a way that isn't 'Oh god I'm about to die', so they can make use of heals and stuff where previously, it was either shields completely covering their health and if the shields fell off you get 'em back up immediately, then went back to offense.

This would also reward your opponent for applying enough pressure to force the sorc to recast before the point where there'd be a net gain of shielding compared to before. My beef with your suggestion is that it seems rather...'screw you' to the mag build, like just a direct nerf to a defense that was balanced but not mechanically interesting. There needs to be a give/take, and slapping an increasing cost onto every magicka user who is facing someone competent is a totally unneeded nerf. With your suggestion, the BEST any mag build could do is break even, defensively, with the previous patch. There'd be no way to benefit at all - you either suffer or, if your opponent is bad, break even. I'm not okay with something that's either a nerf or not a nerf to something that doesn't need nerfing - if there's going to be a nerf, it needs to fall in line with the whole 'this is a nerf if 'x', but a buff if 'y''.

And of course the percentage, how long the shield last, when that point would be where recasting before is a loss and casting after is a gain, would need to be figured out.

Remove cast time.

I think that an appropriate change would be one that allows for emergency shields and pre combat shields, but nerfs shield spamming and stacking as a strategy. A shield here or there can save your life in a pinch, but perhaps that's exactly what ZOS is trying to stop. Maybe they don't like the idea that light armor magicka builds can absorb such massive hits that would rightfully one shot them otherwise. I'm not sure as they haven't been completely clear as to what exactly it is that they are trying to stop with the cast time implementation.

Increasing costs while spamming could have been an appropriate nerf while still allowing for instant cast one shot shields when needed. When the pressure is on and you need to shield repeatedly or die, you will die as you find your resource pool quickly drained. It's much better than a cast time which is very prohibitive.

ezio45 wrote: »

They need to revert the changes but I dont want to see them buffed once reverted. some other buffs to light/ mag would be good tho

Absolutely. IMO, the #1 way to balance PvP is to balance armor around mobility

Light should have the highest mobility, not dodge rolling/break free but movement should be the best. Is someone faster in gym shorts or swat gear?

75% snare reduction, 75% reduced cost of sprinting, change the penetration to a damage percentage equal to or greater than medium. The number one way to kill a magic player is to pressure their stam, that won't change. If they are sprinting, they aren't casting either.

Medium should have the highest acrobatics. Dodge/break free should be cheaper, damage should be higher

Heavy should have 50% buff to heavy attack damage, but speed cap reduction of 50%.

Magicka players will be able to kite and shield but not stack/spam without a massive cost increase. They will be glass cannons or great healers.
Stam players will be able to kite and dodge but not without a massive cost increase. They will also be glass cannons, but not as squishy as light.
Heavy should have powerful, slow attacks. But they should not have the same access to speed that light and medium have.

There will still be ways to play all three very strong and they will be unique. And they will make sense instead of a Fury/Seventh Stam Warden at speed cap.

Well, stam recovery now stops when blocking. Perhaps reduce mag recovery to zero when a damage mitigation shield is in effect? Ehh, I think just increased cost for repeated casts within a certain timeframe are good.

idk wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pole is to limiting. It is as poorly thought out as Zos' solution for shields.

A debuff that persists until 4 seconds after the shield dissipates or is destroyed would be an effective choice, hinder shield stacking while rewarding those that strategically use shields.

A 6 second (more so a 9 second) penalty on everything for using a shield is poorly thought out. After all the example of blocking only lasts as long as the player holds up block. We do not have the same control with shields.

It's a troll. Pretty easy to see that

Even if it is a troll poll it still is pretty poor.

Agreed