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Should DPS be nerfed across the board in PVE?
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Eyesinthedrk✭✭✭✭✭NoThe problem, in my opinion, is how all new dungeons are designed. Stupid high boss health and dumb one shot mechanics. In both cases a healer can’t do anything about it other than toss out resources.
Most new dungeons are more about where you stand than how your group is composed. Back in the day (about 300 cp ago) running the OG vet fungle or vet dark shades without a healer was a death sentence. High ticking damage phases that needed to be healed through.
What kills the group now? fang Hm? One shot ghost walls, one shot bone colossus. One shot bug spawns. Scale caller? One shot poisons zones. Bloodroot? Not DPSing fast enough before lava fills the room. falkreath? One shot shouts and poor pillar management.
Your new content has made healers less important. Not balance issues.
Edited by Eyesinthedrk on September 24, 2018 2:05PM1 -
royo✭✭✭YesI would like no CP PvE content to be offered as a nerf to top end dps. No CP would have greater rewards or score.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoThere's a lot more to PvE than dungeon runs. It's bad enough my PvE skills have to be adjusted because other people are complaining about PvP, without making further adjustments because a few people are complaining about dungeon runs.0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherIt all depends on how they do it. I do think they need to make the game less dps centric.
The difference in dps from casual player to skilled player is far too large.
The reason for this is that there are too many layers of optimisation in this game.
I’m the game you can optimise-
Number of CP points
Distribution of CP points
Mundus stone
Food buff
Potion buff
Attributive distribution
Enchants
Armor weighting’s
Armor traits
Item quality
Set bonus 1
Set bonus 2
Monster set bonus
Class passives
Race passives
Armor passives
Weapon passives
Generic passives
Animation cancelling
Skills used
Rotation used
Tightness of rotation
Understanding of game mechanics
It’s a huge list, far too long.
It allows situations where someone that knows very little can put out 5k (heck that’s optimistic) while someone that’s really skilled can put out over 50k. That’s ten times.
Problem being some people like that level of complexity. They will defend it kicking and screaming. But this is the root of the games issues.
It is like anything else in life though, when you learn all this stuff, you don’t think about it anymore, you just do it.
I personally like complex games, but I still think that the gap between "casual" and "hardcore" players is way too big, especially for a game with pretty much 0 gear progression.
This is a problem because it's not possible to balance the game and design new balanced content when some players pull 5k dps and some can do 50k. I think it should be easier to pull 30k without studying out-of-game sources (because rotations and weaving are not explained anywhere in game). For those 50k dds its still noob tier dps, but for casual players it would be a big improvement, especially for those who prefer pugging.
It just really looks like ZOS kinda coded themselves into a corner and cant even design a new vet dungeon without adding a bunch of oneshots just to create an illusion of difficulty. They cannot design the content around players, because even with identical gear and cp rank they can do anywhere between 15k and 40k, so they design it around oneshots. This is also the reason why healers are less useful, it's easier to just dps everything down without dealing with these mechanics. No one can heal oneshots anyway.
I dislike the concept of soft caps, but at this point it would be a better solution than these heavy handed nerfs. They just need to set the cap high enough so it doesnt affect the majority of players.Edited by LadyNalcarya on September 24, 2018 2:59PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherRemove animation canceling and rework the CP system, and design some content that is more focused towards the other roles of the trinity. Right now there is too much focus on a individual performance of how much dps you can produce while avoiding red circles and one shots.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No
Yes, that was the problem with nerf patches like Morrowind, it mostly hit the 15K-25K dps players.redspecter23 wrote: »If top end dps is too high, the ceiling can be lowered without destroying players that are still progressing or more casual. Not everyone has 50k+ dummy parses. An across the board nerf would decimate those still struggling to hit 20k.
Specific targetted changes that chip away at the top end without impacting the lower end would be preferable, if nerfs are needed at all, which I don't agree with currently anyway.
The good ones quickly adapted while it took far longer for more causal ones.
4 DD runs is more about having high damage migration and that enemies don't do enough damage.
Also dungeons in ESO scales from normal CoA1 to vet dlc.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoSoooo... because good players can blast through dungeons without a dedicated tank, let's screw over not-so-good players? Nah.It’s a huge list, far too long.
It allows situations where someone that knows very little can put out 5k (heck that’s optimistic) while someone that’s really skilled can put out over 50k. That’s ten times.
Yeah, there's a similar situation in Star Trek Online.... people who don't know what they're doing can struggle to make 5k, meanwhile the top "DPS League" folks can push out 150k or more. Huge amounts of interconnected buffs & systems, most of which aren't obvious.1 -
ZOS_MikaadminWe have recently removed a few bashing/non-constructive comments. Please keep this discussion civil and on-topic. Thanks!The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherKiralyn2000 wrote: »
Yeah, there's a similar situation in Star Trek Online.... people who don't know what they're doing can struggle to make 5k, meanwhile the top "DPS League" folks can push out 150k or more. Huge amounts of interconnected buffs & systems, most of which aren't obvious.
Lol I wouldnt be surprised if ESO will be the same in a year or so.
Casual dds were sitting at 5-10k since IC patch and it hasnt changed since then. It wasnt that much of an issue when top dps was around 20-30k, but now the difference is insane.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Hateanthem✭✭✭✭NoIt's not the player's DPS that needs to be nerfed, it's this insane game design where players with large CP amounts can participate in the same 4 man content as players that are level 20.
I recently switched platforms and have been leveling another tank, and let me tell you, it is absolutely no fun at all when you are level 30 in a dungeon and a CP capped DPS is in the group with you. It absolutely kills any challenge. Yeah, I have done the content a bazillion times so it isn't difficult even with a group of low level players, but at least there is that possibility that something could happen to challenge the group. When a capped player comes in all you can do is sprint behind them and loot because they just run through it. Makes it a very unfun experience.
There is so much content and so many CP now that, in my opinion, content should be separated out.Edited by Hateanthem on September 24, 2018 4:14PM0 -
Arreyanne✭✭✭✭I would like no CP PvE content to be offered as a nerf to top end dps. No CP would have greater rewards or score.
When they added CP as a new design they roped themselves into a corner as many other MMO's have with that type progression system.
Now they have to live with it and I dont think CP is ever going away, so hang on baby.1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other
No other MMOS did their AA systems much better this system is just lame. it has not been expanded on tweaked or even looked at or patched since its inception. most MMO's by this point has several layers that signify your role or build this system just makes you superman at everything add in the games dps centric design and it only compounds the issues.I would like no CP PvE content to be offered as a nerf to top end dps. No CP would have greater rewards or score.
When they added CP as a new design they roped themselves into a corner as many other MMO's have with that type progression system.
Now they have to live with it and I don't think CP is ever going away, so hang on baby.
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