The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Heal Botting will always be a thing until high damage burst aoe exists [PVP]
likecats
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I have seen a lot of streamers and forumers talking about heal botting in BG's. But I healbots are indeed a NECESSARY counterplay to another major problem in pvp: burst aoe's. In order to achieve good balance, both need to be rebalanced in pvp.
Premades hate fighting other premades, why? Because they all have the same composition:
Ofcourse other combinations exists, but in MOST premades you will have at least 3/4 of the people described in the list above. It is also one of the reason why stamina is generally better than magicka in the current meta, back when Destro ulti was stronger, you were seeing much more magicka players because essentially magicka had the same what Stam has now, a high burst aoe combination that kills more people than it should.
Before you discredit be of being a zergling or some other stupid insult, if you have high MMR, go to BG with a premade group. Soon enough you will be fighting a premade with THIS EXACT composition. Of-course you can't blame them because timing ults with spin2win is the most effective tactic available, but it contributes to an overall boring game-play in pvp, so I suggest the following changes to heals and burst AOE's.
Just to reiterate, I am only speaking of the 'burst' aspect of AOE's not AOE's in general.
These are changes I suggest to be implemented in Battle spirit so it doesn't affect PVE players.
Dawnbreaker / Leap / Meteor:
Should be reworked to function like jabs, primary target takes 100% damage, the rest take 60%.
Spin2win / DestroUlt:
Should be reworked to function like crescent sweep, a cone in front of you take 100% damage, the rest take 60%.
Of-course now Healers also need to be adjusted, so I would suggest a similar solution for high burst AOE Heals.
Remembrance / Warden Ulti / Resto Ult / Earthgore:
Caster gains 100% heal, all non-casters get 60% heal.
Troll King (not really high burst but a major problem):
Caster gains 100% recovery, all non-casters affected get 60% recovery.
With all these changes implemented, I think pvp will be in a much better state than it is right now.
I hope Zenimax implements some of these changes in PVP in the near future if not this patch.
Premades hate fighting other premades, why? Because they all have the same composition:
- DD1: Uses DB + Spin2Win
- DD2: Uses Leap + Spin2Win
- DD3: Uses DB + SubAssault + Spin2Win
- HealBot: Either Templar or Warden spamming heal ult.
Ofcourse other combinations exists, but in MOST premades you will have at least 3/4 of the people described in the list above. It is also one of the reason why stamina is generally better than magicka in the current meta, back when Destro ulti was stronger, you were seeing much more magicka players because essentially magicka had the same what Stam has now, a high burst aoe combination that kills more people than it should.
Before you discredit be of being a zergling or some other stupid insult, if you have high MMR, go to BG with a premade group. Soon enough you will be fighting a premade with THIS EXACT composition. Of-course you can't blame them because timing ults with spin2win is the most effective tactic available, but it contributes to an overall boring game-play in pvp, so I suggest the following changes to heals and burst AOE's.
Just to reiterate, I am only speaking of the 'burst' aspect of AOE's not AOE's in general.
These are changes I suggest to be implemented in Battle spirit so it doesn't affect PVE players.
Dawnbreaker / Leap / Meteor:
Should be reworked to function like jabs, primary target takes 100% damage, the rest take 60%.
Spin2win / DestroUlt:
Should be reworked to function like crescent sweep, a cone in front of you take 100% damage, the rest take 60%.
Of-course now Healers also need to be adjusted, so I would suggest a similar solution for high burst AOE Heals.
Remembrance / Warden Ulti / Resto Ult / Earthgore:
Caster gains 100% heal, all non-casters get 60% heal.
Troll King (not really high burst but a major problem):
Caster gains 100% recovery, all non-casters affected get 60% recovery.
With all these changes implemented, I think pvp will be in a much better state than it is right now.
I hope Zenimax implements some of these changes in PVP in the near future if not this patch.
5
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moosegod✭✭✭Yeah or maybe ZoS could add some sort of buff that reduces AoE damage, something like minor and major protection but for AoE damage specifically. Seems like it would be a good change based on your argument.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If an entire team is ult dumping you, it should kill you unless you properly counter it. You're supposed to put up defensive ultimates agaisnt it. If basic heals can stop any burst attempt you will have unkillable templar raids again like how it was back in pre-morrowind CP campaign. Obviously people will go for aoe combos in group play, nerfing this or that or the next best thing will not change this. Nerf spin2win, and people will go brawler with master 2h, nerf that and the next best thing will become the meta.
And defending the Eye of the Stupid meta ? Really? Have we fallen this far? Calling leap boring and defending EOTS? Allright, I've seen enough.Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 23, 2018 1:32PM6 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I drop most healers in seconds with my StamNB. That's my primary job in premades, so that the others can take care of the rest.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I thought the L2Play counter to Sloads was to have a healer in your group. Now that people are bringing healers (also in anticipation of Soldier of Anguish), people are complaining about healers in BGs?
Well, its PVP, we'll complain about anything.6 -
mojomood✭✭✭Your title makes it sound like you want higher AoE burst to overcome healbots, but your post is the opposite.Edited by mojomood on September 23, 2018 1:42PM3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah this is a terrible idea.
This games problem in pvp is that healing others is too easy, ignoring the fact someone can build and outheal around 6 people whamming on them without even blocking because of sets like pirate skeleton.
People should be more responsible for their own heals, it should be on them to make sure they're topped off, have hots etc.. and not be caught out run out of stam yet survive because someone is spamming breath of life or such and not even looking at them.
Smart heals are stupid, unless maybe on ults but smart heals on skills is stupid. It takes any type of skill involved out of healing away, healers don't have to target people, keep track of hp etc... they just spam a heal and it automatically goes to the lowest hp target.
It's stupid how people can build so tanky yet throw out heals that are so strong and sustain them. This is mostly magplars problem. It's literally impossible to kill 2 cross healing magplar healbots in cp pvp without a zerg of 20 people.
I think it would be better if battle spirit has a 30% - 40% nerf to healing others or something. Make people more responsible for themselves. At the very least aoe direct heals such as remembrance, warden tree's, breath of life etc.. should get healing reduced in pvp.
But hey knowing how zergs think in this game all this will accomplish is that they'll run a healbot in a 1:1 ratio instead.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭More like too much DPS. Bad idea from disgruntled DPS.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Too much damage will push people to healing builds. Just wait until Murkmire hits. The shield changes will push people to heal builds + 8% from heavy =
. As CP rises, people will get better at healing too... 0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, I'm always amazed that people don't get it:
The more the damage output is the more people will play tanker and tanker builds cause let's face it:who likes getting ultidumped.
After Earth gore was sold in seeing it everywhere and why?? Cause its THE Best counter vs spin2win/dbos monkeys. Its absolutely natural that many people put it on, expecting anything else is stupid
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Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
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Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game was way more fun back when almost everyone was running medium / light and had low TTK.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
moosegod✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Yeah this is a terrible idea.
This games problem in pvp is that healing others is too easy, ignoring the fact someone can build and outheal around 6 people whamming on them without even blocking because of sets like pirate skeleton.
People should be more responsible for their own heals, it should be on them to make sure they're topped off, have hots etc.. and not be caught out run out of stam yet survive because someone is spamming breath of life or such and not even looking at them.
Smart heals are stupid, unless maybe on ults but smart heals on skills is stupid. It takes any type of skill involved out of healing away, healers don't have to target people, keep track of hp etc... they just spam a heal and it automatically goes to the lowest hp target.
It's stupid how people can build so tanky yet throw out heals that are so strong and sustain them. This is mostly magplars problem. It's literally impossible to kill 2 cross healing magplar healbots in cp pvp without a zerg of 20 people.
I think it would be better if battle spirit has a 30% - 40% nerf to healing others or something. Make people more responsible for themselves. At the very least aoe direct heals such as remembrance, warden tree's, breath of life etc.. should get healing reduced in pvp.
But hey knowing how zergs think in this game all this will accomplish is that they'll run a healbot in a 1:1 ratio instead.
You do know battle spirit currently halves all healing, right?2
