The Elder Scrolls Online

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Ozazz
Ozazz
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So with the up an coming nerfs to Harness magicka and shuffle making them near useless in pvp, this inevitably makes Dk's wings better than both abilities. I do hope people realize this.
They took two of the most important abilities available for any classes, and made a class specific better than both.
How is this even remotely balanced.
looks like we have some biased Dk class reps and developers.
  • Jjitsuboy98
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    So with the up an coming nerfs to Harness magicka and shuffle making them near useless in pvp, this inevitably makes Dk's wings better than both abilities. I do hope people realize this.
    They took two of the most important abilities available for any classes, and made a class specific better than both.
    How is this even remotely balanced.
    looks like we have some biased Dk class reps and developers.

    Naw sir
    My youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz_VmykEiGoIF5THIb2w2ng?view_as=subscriber

  • Ozazz
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    Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »
    Ozazz wrote: »
    So with the up an coming nerfs to Harness magicka and shuffle making them near useless in pvp, this inevitably makes Dk's wings better than both abilities. I do hope people realize this.
    They took two of the most important abilities available for any classes, and made a class specific better than both.
    How is this even remotely balanced.
    looks like we have some biased Dk class reps and developers.

    Naw sir

    100% explain how?
  • Ozazz
    Ozazz
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    shuffle gave 50% dodge
    Now 0%
    wings give damage medication to projectiles
    along with snare removal the exact thing shuffle gives?

    YOU ARE GETTING MORE FROM WINGS
    Edited by Ozazz on September 21, 2018 11:43PM
  • LittlePinkDot
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    I think it was a nerf for pve with no regard for pvp.
  • Ozazz
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    well what ever the case i'm tired of pve dictating pve.
    wings should not out perform shuffle and harness and that is the case now.
  • LittlePinkDot
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    well what ever the case i'm tired of pve dictating pve.
    wings should not out perform shuffle and harness and that is the case now.

    Well ZoS has said they dont want to balance pve and pvp separately. Either theyre too cheap, or they think the servers cant handle it.
  • Ozazz
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    well that's a horrible approach because they had one of the most revolutionary pvp combat systems and we've seen it slowly decline over the years, after this next patch ill be leaving 100% if pts makes it live. and so many others
  • Sevn
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    LittlePinkDot wrote: »
    Ozazz wrote: »
    well what ever the case i'm tired of pve dictating pve.
    wings should not out perform shuffle and harness and that is the case now.

    Well ZoS has said they dont want to balance pve and pvp separately. Either theyre too cheap, or they think the servers cant handle it.

    That's straight from the top. The suits who control the money see no profit in spending money on two separate teams. The devs are just the scapegoats.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    So with the up an coming nerfs to Harness magicka and shuffle making them near useless in pvp, this inevitably makes Dk's wings better than both abilities. I do hope people realize this.
    They took two of the most important abilities available for any classes, and made a class specific better than both.
    How is this even remotely balanced.
    looks like we have some biased Dk class reps and developers.

    You realize that the buff to light armor (less snares) and the change to evasion (less AOE damage) also nerfs a DK's CCs and damage, right? Eruption, Talons, Volatile Armor, Leap, Corrosive Armor, Shifting Standard, Inhale.

    Try to see both sides of it, bud.

    Edited by Savos_Saren on September 22, 2018 1:18AM
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Ozazz
    Ozazz
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    Savos_Saren wrote: »
    Ozazz wrote: »
    So with the up an coming nerfs to Harness magicka and shuffle making them near useless in pvp, this inevitably makes Dk's wings better than both abilities. I do hope people realize this.
    They took two of the most important abilities available for any classes, and made a class specific better than both.
    How is this even remotely balanced.
    looks like we have some biased Dk class reps and developers.

    You realize that the buff to light armor (less snares) and the change to evasion (less AOE damage) also nerfs a DK's CCs, right? Eruption, Talons, Volatile Armor, Leap, Corrosive Armor, Shifting Standard, Inhale.

    Try to see both sides of it, bud.

    as every other class, you say buff when its clearly making the abilities worse and the passives still don't compensate. anybody that pvps knows that shuffle will be extremely useless along with harness. you're literally trying to justify the most radical patch yet and denying the fact that wings is the better ability than harness magic and shuffle. which was the only point
    Edited by Ozazz on September 22, 2018 1:21AM
  • Ragnarock41
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    Lol at sorcs thinking they know how PvP works. Shuffle got a buff, not a nerf. Medium armor is now officially better than heavy in group play due to having aoe mitigation+snare immunity with a single ability.

    Meanwhile heavy has to use blade cloak(which is garbage and still requires you to run FM/wings)

    Medium armor based builds will dominate, eespecially stamblades with their absurd ST burst(but leap will do a lot less damage to them now)
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 22, 2018 1:26AM
  • Ozazz
    Ozazz
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    Ragnarock41 wrote: »
    Lol at sorcs thinking they know how PvP works. Shuffle got a buff, not a nerf. Medium armor is now officially better than heavy in group play due to having aoe mitigation+snare immunity with a single ability.

    Meanwhile heavy has to use blade cloak(which is garbage and still requires you to run FM/wings)

    so 50% chance to dodge all incoming damage to now 0% is a buff damn you're smart.
    one of the only things saving you from 100% of all incoming damage from zergs.
    Edited by Ozazz on September 22, 2018 1:44AM
  • Maryal
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    So with the up an coming nerfs to Harness magicka and shuffle making them near useless in pvp, this inevitably makes Dk's wings better than both abilities. I do hope people realize this.
    They took two of the most important abilities available for any classes, and made a class specific better than both.
    How is this even remotely balanced.
    looks like we have some biased Dk class reps and developers.

    click bait
  • Ozazz
    Ozazz
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    more like facts
  • Savos_Saren
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    So with all the buffs to siege damage... you think a skill that lowers AOE damage is bad???
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Ozazz
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    @Savos_Saren after removing the initial 50% chance to dodge. I 100% believe its worse.
    bro its not even up for discussion, do the math, & this will be a devastating change for any solo player in cyrodiil
    aoe damage is situational, where dodge chance on any ability is way more beneficial!
    Edited by Ozazz on September 22, 2018 1:50AM
  • Savos_Saren
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    @Savos_Saren after removing the initial 50% chance to dodge. I 100% believe its worse.
    bro its not even up for discussion, do the math, & this will be a devastating change for any solo player in cyrodiil
    aoe damage is situational, where dodge chance on any ability is way more beneficial!

    I mean... it is up for discussion. That's why we're discussing it on the forums. (Otherwise you're just ranting.) And, unless you're specifically dueling someone- you're not going to be fighting a 1v1. Hopefully, in Cyrodiil- you're attempting to capture keeps/resources (which are guarded with a lot of AOE defenses).

    If you're just wanting to 1v1 people- perhaps Cyrodiil isn't the place for you? You could hang out at wayshrines and randomly run over to players to invite them to duels. That's super fun.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • VaranisArano
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    Savos_Saren wrote: »
    So with all the buffs to siege damage... you think a skill that lowers AOE damage is bad???

    I've been wondering if the siege buffs played a role in the devs' decision to make evasion give AOE damage reduction. For the PVE side, its a nice way to soften the sometimes buggy dodge roll placement when it comes to getting out of AOEs.
  • PickleRick
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    Just to be clear @Ozazz it was 15% not 50%
    Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.
  • Ragnarock41
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    Ragnarock41 wrote: »
    Lol at sorcs thinking they know how PvP works. Shuffle got a buff, not a nerf. Medium armor is now officially better than heavy in group play due to having aoe mitigation+snare immunity with a single ability.

    Meanwhile heavy has to use blade cloak(which is garbage and still requires you to run FM/wings)

    so 50% chance to dodge all incoming damage to now 0% is a buff damn you're smart.
    one of the only things saving you from 100% of all incoming damage from zergs.

    %50 dodge change lmao hahahah

    Thanks for proving my point I guess.
  • Savos_Saren
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    VaranisArano wrote: »
    Savos_Saren wrote: »
    So with all the buffs to siege damage... you think a skill that lowers AOE damage is bad???

    I've been wondering if the siege buffs played a role in the devs' decision to make evasion give AOE damage reduction. For the PVE side, its a nice way to soften the sometimes buggy dodge roll placement when it comes to getting out of AOEs.

    I can almost guarantee that it does. Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest through the trees with these changes.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    PickleRick wrote: »
    Just to be clear @Ozazz it was 15% not 50%

    @PickleRick

    Even though you're somewhat new to the forums- I've seen you in threads dominated by Sorcs and NBs. And even though you don't agree with what they say, you've offered insight and even offered to take them through dungeons. Good for you. It's a fresh turn on these forums.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Arkangeloski
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    Ozazz wrote: »
    shuffle gave 50% dodge
    Now 0%
    wings give damage medication to projectiles
    along with snare removal the exact thing shuffle gives?

    YOU ARE GETTING MORE FROM WINGS

    It is not 50% is 15% lol and these are the ppl calling nerfs...
  • PickleRick
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    Savos_Saren wrote: »
    PickleRick wrote: »
    Just to be clear @Ozazz it was 15% not 50%

    @PickleRick

    Even though you're somewhat new to the forums- I've seen you in threads dominated by Sorcs and NBs. And even though you don't agree with what they say, you've offered insight and even offered to take them through dungeons. Good for you. It's a fresh turn on these forums.

    Hey thanks man, I’m just a scientist that’s turned himself to a pickle so I’m glad I can try to have an impact!

    Plus I’m a Stam Warden main so I’m just overjoyed by the patch notes and trying to share some positivity :trollface:
    Edited by PickleRick on September 22, 2018 3:48AM
    Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.
  • IZZEFlameLash
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    Man, you keep mentioning '50% dodge chance' and it was officially 15%. Big difference. If it was 50%, MA users would have told all magicka players to 'stop QQ and l2p'. By the way, this does not in any way make DK wings better. In this patch, DKs suffer over all damage nerfs against MA users, and the most popular spammable projectiles used are non-reflectable and those that use reflectable (NBs) have their own mitigation tool so powerful that it makes everything miss (except for likes of Curse). Oh and DKs suffer Power Lash cost which hits the sustain issue. So yeah, DK is in better position yeah? In general almost all LA magicka builds are going to suffer. DKs included. We can all drown with mWardens. And enjoy our wet noodle in HA.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • PickleRick
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    50% dodge chance would certainly be the strongest defensive buff around though
    Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.
  • robpr
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    DK still has spammable group shield, even if tiny one.
  • Aedaryl
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    Ragnarock41 wrote: »
    Lol at sorcs thinking they know how PvP works. Shuffle got a buff, not a nerf. Medium armor is now officially better than heavy in group play due to having aoe mitigation+snare immunity with a single ability.

    Meanwhile heavy has to use blade cloak(which is garbage and still requires you to run FM/wings)

    Medium armor based builds will dominate, eespecially stamblades with their absurd ST burst(but leap will do a lot less damage to them now)

    Don't worry, as always, stamblade will dominate everyone by being in heavy WITH major evasion :neutral:
  • jcm2606
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    Wings really isn't comparable to either. For starters, it is a rather expensive skill, costing 3159 on a light armour magDK (in the UESP build editor), and 3440 on a medium armour 5/1/1 stamDK. DK in general is starving in terms of magicka, with many high magicka cost skills offering your main buffs, debuffs and utility. Buffing up alone can eat half your magicka pool on a light armour magDK.

    Next, wings only provides immunity against projectile-based damage, and even then it does a pretty meh job at it. The cap is rather low, often being hit within a second when against multiple ranged players/mobs (to the point where some players simply don't run it in open world, as it goes down so quick), and there are a ton of special cases involving skills that wings cannot reflect. There is also a bug where projectiles can occasionally go right through wings, there was a thread on it a week or two ago.

    Wings also isn't really comparable to Shuffle, offering slightly less snare immunity (less a problem with wings, more a problem with Shuffle, in my opinion), and, again, pulling a pretty high amount of magicka from a pool that is already quite starved, especially on stamDK.

    Also, to call the devs and reps "DK biased" is honestly laughable. Look at the changes to DK over the past few years. They either received nerfs, or otherwise have gone nowhere, and the "hold your ground" playstyle of DK, that Zenimax is seemingly still trying to push, is pretty much dead at this point.
  • Juhasow
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    PickleRick wrote: »
    50% dodge chance would certainly be the strongest defensive buff around though

    Ehh that good old Blindning Flashes and Cinder Storm... :D
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