Progress Report: Do you feel that ZOS is listening to your concerns and making sound decisions?

Androconium · September 2018

Yes

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So with the new update a lot of people are mad, especially at the dev team.

Currently the mods are a bit overprotective of themselves and it appears absolutely nobody is going to respond or even engage the idea of criticism because this is their game and they(he) can do whatever they(he) wants.

Class reps and what not, totally ignored. Community input, especially by veteran/top players, also ignored. With this line of development, building and changing things on a regular basis with little to no concern about how it effects the gameplay or players is the norm.

We have a single person or two who ultimately makes these decisions that we all hate so much. Now, with this recent update I believe the community is about fed up with the seemingly incoherent decisions when trying to "balance" the game. The fact of the matter is no one person's opinion will help balance or make the game better, a collective input based on something like class reps can.
That single person is charged with maximising profit, not player enjoyment.

So long as the class reps are listening and feeding ZOS input, then everything should be fine. However that's not what's happening, class reps have been ignored and changes have been forced down our throats whether we like it or not. We get no input or choice in the matter.
Why would you have input? it's not your product.

I personally feel this has to change, the way ZOS handles this also needs to change. When I see a thread asking ZOS for a statement then I see a Z next to the thread indicating a mod posted in it, guess what they said? "cleaned the thread up please try to be more civil", they don't even care enough to give an opinion, in fact they're probably not even allowed to share their opinions with the community, or respond onbehalf of ZOS.
And? Not a public forum. Their involvement is only to remove any potential legal threats.

We get literally no interaction or conversation with the devs on how we want or need the game to be. Apparently by raising the question should the lead combat dev be replaced or add a new person, you're automatically shaming or attacking someone just because you raise a very important issue. I'm not sure how to possibly go about criticizing or sharing my input when I'm not allowed to even mention the name of the person who's making these decisions.
All players continue to make the mistake of assuming the the developers have some sort of creative independence.

Instead ZOS chooses to dismiss this topic, they refuse to accept criticism, and in fact do their best to ignore or silence it. Just look at summerfall, a distraction the devs created to stop people from talking about the new changes in the upcoming update so everyone is focused on getting everyone else to go run around summerset.
NOW YOU ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND

I find it absolutely absurd, and ZOS needs to look it's self in the mirror and question whether or not the current course we're taking is sustainable for the long run. If everytime they balance something they have to completely ruin or make something else impractical, then maybe they just don't know how to balance the game.
They are playing a different game. The one about maximising profit. From you.

With that being said, my vote is No.

I broke the post up into, hopefully, readable sections.
Comment like this are mine.

max_only · September 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I suspect they are listening. I also suspect that listening does not necessarily mean that they will do what the community wants them to.

"healer dont feel necessary because of shields"

Guess who said that? The lead combat developer.

Apparently the lead combat developer spends so little time listening or playing the game, he isn't aware that healers can produce a 30k DPS difference for the DPS, and are in charge of helping maintain resources for tank/dps.

(ZOS this isn't an attack or wrobel, don't ban me, I'm simply stating the fact he said this, and it displays a complete lack of knowledge about the healer's viability or usefulness in game)

Maybe they have heard the following conversation:

Player one: we need one more for vet Fang Lair.

Player two: what do you need.

Player one: we have a tank and two DPS.

Player two: I can heal.

Player one: We are looking for another DPS it is easier.

The answer to that situation is to stop making 1shot mechanics that are better skipped by overwhelming dps. If they had pressure phases instead of 1shots you wouldn’t see that conversation.

SHADOW2KK · September 2018

No

The Death Star is better at CAS than ZoS at fixing stuff..

itscompton · September 2018

No

GreenHere wrote: »

I think it's worth noting that even if they saw and agreed with any given concern they might see on the forums, changes can take time. It's unreasonable to expect an entire development team to change many things in a short timeframe. There's a lot of factors at play that we don't know about or consider. Maybe their corporate overlords have certain decisions on a leash, and they literally cannot make changes we and they both want without going through proper channels first. Maybe they are busy with other things we don't know about, and the manpower simply isn't available right now. Maybe this, maybe that, maybe something else. Point is, big companies aren't exactly nimble in all changes and decision making.

BUT, as a personal feeling, yeah... I get the impression that ZOS is pretty deeply out of touch with how I (and most of the community I interact with) feel about changes they tend to make. It really does seem like they don't have enough people who play their own game sometimes. And the lack of communication with community concerns is... well, concerning. Which, again trying to be fair to them, they're busy making the game and running the company, and might not have a lot of time to actually play it internally.

Upcoming patches give me more of a "ah crap, here we go again..." feeling than, "Right on, new and exciting content for my favorite game!". I wish that wasn't the case, but (right now, anyway) it is what it is.

I highly doubt the corporate overlords care about or understand changes to gameplay mechanics on a skill by skill level, which is what this thread is concerned with.

idk · September 2018

I just glanced at the wall of words but noticed the comment about a thread asking for Zos to comment but the only Zos comment was a forum moderator.

Think is Zos has commented. Clearly they are not going to comment in every thread that pops up since using the shields as an example there have been tons of them.

Is Zos listening? Since they are removing the interrupt on shields they have listened but clearly has not totally agrees with us. So yes, they are listening.

And no, I am not thrilled with the changes.

Poll is not worth answering.

IZZEFlameLash · September 2018

No

Absolutely not. Over the past 3 years or so I've been playing, I've only seen them doing the opposite of what people have been giving feedback on or just overkilling with nerfs and buffs with no rollbacks, no admission from them that they overdid nerfs/buffs or that they just don't care about what the feedbacks actually say.

GreenHere · September 2018

itscompton wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

I think it's worth noting that even if they saw and agreed with any given concern they might see on the forums, changes can take time. It's unreasonable to expect an entire development team to change many things in a short timeframe. There's a lot of factors at play that we don't know about or consider. Maybe their corporate overlords have certain decisions on a leash, and they literally cannot make changes we and they both want without going through proper channels first. Maybe they are busy with other things we don't know about, and the manpower simply isn't available right now. Maybe this, maybe that, maybe something else. Point is, big companies aren't exactly nimble in all changes and decision making.

BUT, as a personal feeling, yeah... I get the impression that ZOS is pretty deeply out of touch with how I (and most of the community I interact with) feel about changes they tend to make. It really does seem like they don't have enough people who play their own game sometimes. And the lack of communication with community concerns is... well, concerning. Which, again trying to be fair to them, they're busy making the game and running the company, and might not have a lot of time to actually play it internally.

Upcoming patches give me more of a "ah crap, here we go again..." feeling than, "Right on, new and exciting content for my favorite game!". I wish that wasn't the case, but (right now, anyway) it is what it is.

I highly doubt the corporate overlords care about or understand changes to gameplay mechanics on a skill by skill level, which is what this thread is concerned with.

You're almost certainly correct.

I can't pretend to know one way or another, but I'd guess that with a large, highly profitable, and long-established franchise like Elder Scrolls that a fair few things need to be approved by someone with authority before being added to or changed within the lore. Although, if that's the case, then more than a few suspect additions to the Elder Scrolls franchise have come from ESO... so maybe no such process exists after all.

All I'm saying is, chances are high there are more factors than just "Is [thing] a good idea for the ESO game and community?" when these decisions are made. It's not any excuse or justification for the actual decisions. A lot of people seem to expect that when they make a good suggestion in the forums, the idea should be implemented on the PTS next week... which is unrealistic. Was just trying to respectfully offer a reminder that reality is more complicated for the devs, too.

Ri_Khan · September 2018

ZOS knows what they're doing with their game. They have all the numbers and info they need in order to see the "bigger picture" when it comes to the player-base and what the current metas are. If they think too many players are taking advantage of something, they nerf it.

To imply that they're doing these things in order to somehow spite you is asinine. Get over yourselves.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2018

No

Listening - actually yes

Making good development decisions - No

Smasherx74 · September 2018

No

Androconium wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

So with the new update a lot of people are mad, especially at the dev team.

Currently the mods are a bit overprotective of themselves and it appears absolutely nobody is going to respond or even engage the idea of criticism because this is their game and they(he) can do whatever they(he) wants.

Class reps and what not, totally ignored. Community input, especially by veteran/top players, also ignored. With this line of development, building and changing things on a regular basis with little to no concern about how it effects the gameplay or players is the norm.

We have a single person or two who ultimately makes these decisions that we all hate so much. Now, with this recent update I believe the community is about fed up with the seemingly incoherent decisions when trying to "balance" the game. The fact of the matter is no one person's opinion will help balance or make the game better, a collective input based on something like class reps can.
That single person is charged with maximising profit, not player enjoyment.

So long as the class reps are listening and feeding ZOS input, then everything should be fine. However that's not what's happening, class reps have been ignored and changes have been forced down our throats whether we like it or not. We get no input or choice in the matter.
Why would you have input? it's not your product.

I personally feel this has to change, the way ZOS handles this also needs to change. When I see a thread asking ZOS for a statement then I see a Z next to the thread indicating a mod posted in it, guess what they said? "cleaned the thread up please try to be more civil", they don't even care enough to give an opinion, in fact they're probably not even allowed to share their opinions with the community, or respond onbehalf of ZOS.
And? Not a public forum. Their involvement is only to remove any potential legal threats.

We get literally no interaction or conversation with the devs on how we want or need the game to be. Apparently by raising the question should the lead combat dev be replaced or add a new person, you're automatically shaming or attacking someone just because you raise a very important issue. I'm not sure how to possibly go about criticizing or sharing my input when I'm not allowed to even mention the name of the person who's making these decisions.
All players continue to make the mistake of assuming the the developers have some sort of creative independence.

Instead ZOS chooses to dismiss this topic, they refuse to accept criticism, and in fact do their best to ignore or silence it. Just look at summerfall, a distraction the devs created to stop people from talking about the new changes in the upcoming update so everyone is focused on getting everyone else to go run around summerset.
NOW YOU ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND

I find it absolutely absurd, and ZOS needs to look it's self in the mirror and question whether or not the current course we're taking is sustainable for the long run. If everytime they balance something they have to completely ruin or make something else impractical, then maybe they just don't know how to balance the game.
They are playing a different game. The one about maximising profit. From you.

With that being said, my vote is No.

I broke the post up into, hopefully, readable sections.
Comment like this are mine.

Lead combat designer is in charge of leading the combat design, meaning they make the ultimate decisions on what needs to be change. This isn't a matter of profit, the game isn't P2W and they don't appear of having any intention of doing that.

I'm a customer, a business relies on it's customers therefor conforms to their opinions. More so than that I'm an active user of their product, meaning my input is even more so credible.

Their task is to remove posts that violate the rules and interact with the community as representatives of ZOS as well as relay any important information the community may have.

There is one lead combat designer, he approves or disapproves of all changes or additions to combat. Majority of these changes are going through him and his small team which is probably no more than 3 or 4 people. Compared to games like WoW, he/they have a lot of creative independence.

Unbalancing the game isn't generating them a profit. Take magdens for example, why would you allow your paid for class to be literally the worst magicka DPS in game? It's not P2W, it's not generating them any profit to make irrational changes every patch only to anticipate changing something else all for the sake of balance which doesn't exist in this game. You seem to be under the impression that this game is somehow going P2W, which it is not. How else you keep arriving at the conclusion this is corporate vs costumer is beyond me. This is simply a case of incompetency.

DanteYoda · September 2018

No

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Biased poll is biased?

How the hell is yes no being bias, you either agree they are or you don't, jesus christ.

VaranisArano · September 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Biased poll is biased?

How the hell is yes no being bias

Yes
No
Too afraid to answer because the devs might nerf my class.

Yes, real unbiased, even if we ignore the long preamble about how the devs aren't listening and are making silly decisions.

Morgul667 · September 2018

No

They are notorious for ignoring their players

kargen27 · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I suspect they are listening. I also suspect that listening does not necessarily mean that they will do what the community wants them to.

"healer dont feel necessary because of shields"

Guess who said that? The lead combat developer.

Apparently the lead combat developer spends so little time listening or playing the game, he isn't aware that healers can produce a 30k DPS difference for the DPS, and are in charge of helping maintain resources for tank/dps.

(ZOS this isn't an attack or wrobel, don't ban me, I'm simply stating the fact he said this, and it displays a complete lack of knowledge about the healer's viability or usefulness in game)

Maybe they have heard the following conversation:

Player one: we need one more for vet Fang Lair.

Player two: what do you need.

Player one: we have a tank and two DPS.

Player two: I can heal.

Player one: We are looking for another DPS it is easier.

The answer to that situation is to stop making 1shot mechanics that are better skipped by overwhelming dps. If they had pressure phases instead of 1shots you wouldn’t see that conversation.

I don't mind the one shot mechanic here and there so long as it involves a tell and a mechanic to avoid the shot. One shot mechanics shouldn't be the go to move though as they seem to be.

Personally I think most the problems are caused by ZoS concentrating on the fringe players, both sides. They make changes so the game is easier for new players or players that otherwise struggle in the game and they make changes to the content is harder for the elite players. Changes on both ends of the spectrum screw the players that fall in the middle. The way I am seeing it they are screwing the vast majority of their customers trying to placate the fringes.

shaielzafine · September 2018

No

OP, I agree with everything you've said so far. And I have also seen those threads you mention where they edit and close down the thread when poor feedback is given towards the lead combat designer. Like, where else are people supposed to put feedback if not the forums? I think it's interesting to see how they handle the forums when it's all the same feedback complaining about Wrobel when browsing here, reddit and eso related discord servers I'm on.

I really do wonder if the devs play end game content they design, like do they do vet+3 cloudrest progression or PvP regularly? Do most of the devs only play nightblade or maybe other classes too? As different roles or just dps? I remember people talking about the dev team playing cloudrest trial and March of Sacrifices and my guildies were saying they were wiping. Is that how normal players like me (who didn't even help create the game) are meant to experience that content we paid for?

I'm sure only a small amount of us players care enough to type feedback on the forums but they rarely respond to threads other than they've removed comments. As for your original question, I think zos only listens to some things they want to hear and then says they are "aware and working on a fix" for a bunch of hard to fix projects.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · September 2018

Don't want to say out of fear of having your favorite class rip'd.

I just want the free stuff from summerfall, which I’m glad their giving out for free- especially the house so I can turn it into a Daedric shrine or a vampire home-
I’d put my Molag stuff in it but it fits too well with my Coldharbour home

60f95280_1b64_4016_bf78_f624a190ad2e_by_spicy_hot_sauce-dcngwxd.jpg

1db40137_a598_43d6_8b51_f1a627fdacd5_by_spicy_hot_sauce-dcngwx7.jpg

I didn’t know what to do with the extra stuff so I made a pen

Ilithyania · September 2018

Yes

I dont agree with the shield cast time at all.

But all over i think the Devs has listend in some areas:

Killed Vet ranks on each toon
1 new class
1 new skilline
Outfit system
Weapon dye option
Transmute system to decrease gear farm time
BGs
able to group up cross faction in PvE and BGs
Gems system in Crown Crate
Jewlery crafting
Extra Inventory Chest space in you house
Daily Rewards for login.

DanteYoda · September 2018

No

VaranisArano wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Biased poll is biased?

How the hell is yes no being bias

Yes
No
Too afraid to answer because the devs might nerf my class.

Yes, real unbiased, even if we ignore the long preamble about how the devs aren't listening and are making silly decisions.

News flash they will nerf either way, doesn't matter if you agree or not.

Imperial_Voice · September 2018

Yes

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Biased poll is biased?

Whaaaat? Are you implying that the salty Sorceror crowd is throwing a week long temper tantrum because our class recieved a very minimal nerf?

Do you genuinely think that just because our shields may get a 1 second cast time that a bunch of people, probably between the ages of 15 and 40, are going to come on to a public forum and anonymously behave like children? Wel sir, I call shenanigans on you.

Moloch1514 · September 2018

No

Course correction needed @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RobGarrett

VaranisArano · September 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Biased poll is biased?

How the hell is yes no being bias

Yes
No
Too afraid to answer because the devs might nerf my class.

Yes, real unbiased, even if we ignore the long preamble about how the devs aren't listening and are making silly decisions.

News flash they will nerf either way, doesn't matter if you agree or not.

No duh, Captain Obvious.

But that has nothing to do with whether or not the poll in this thread is unbiased...

FrancisCrawford · September 2018

Bad time for the poll, given the Rich Lambert post that said in effect:

We hear you.
We'll revert a small part of the change immediately.
We'll talk imminently with the class reps and consider what else we could do.