Time to kill in no-CP PvP is FAR too low

lucky_dutch · September 2018

Even in well-rounded (non-glass cannon) builds you can do 25%+ of an opponent’s health in a single class spammable.

Once you add proc sets into the equation, most classes have combos that can 100-0 people faster than the servers can keep up (this is actually an important point, the servers are pretty *** and can add considerable time to your reaction time).

All this added together makes for pretty low-skill PvP combat which honestly can often boil down to who strikes first.

Now you might say “what about when there’s a healer around? Then you have matches where hardly anyone dies!”. This doesn’t disprove my point though, it’s actually a symptom of the same issue: HP pools are too small and DPS & Healing are both too high.

The solution? Buff battle spirit in no-CP PvP. That means larger health pools and weaker damage/healing and the net effect is that HP bars go up and down slightly slower and skill becomes a bigger factor - you will have to consistently out-play your opponent over a short engagement rather than just burst them down in a 2-second combo whilst they’re focused on something else. Healers will also be less broken as they’ll no longer be able to burst heal people to 100 in a single-cast and thus will drain more magicka over a fight.

Because this all has knock-on effects for recovery (it takes more abilities to kill or heal your target meaning you need more recovery in your build), this will further exaggerate the effect. For that reason I would suggest they start out with a small-ish increase of c.20% to battle spirit and re-assess from them.

Drakkdjinn · September 2018

Nah, change ur build for more defense.

lucky_dutch · September 2018

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Nah, change ur build for more defense.

This is absolutely not about "my build" given I run 3 different classes, one of which is very tanky in CP combat. It's a game mode-wide issue. It goes both ways also, I frequently take of 70%+ of an opponents HP in a two-hit combo.

CP combat is arguably too far the other way but the TTK in no-CP is ridiculous. It's Call Of Duty with auto-aim.

Royaji · September 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Nah, change ur build for more defense.

This is absolutely not about "my build" given I run 3 different classes, some of which are very tanky. It's a game mode-wide issue. It goes both ways also, I frequently take of 70%+ of an opponents HP in a two-hit combo.

CP combat is arguably too far the other way but the TTK in no-CP is ridiculous. It's Call Of Duty with auto-aim.

Sounds like you are fighting people in divines...

Drakkdjinn · September 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Nah, change ur build for more defense.

This is absolutely not about "my build" given I run 3 different classes, one of which is very tanky in CP combat. It's a game mode-wide issue. It goes both ways also, I frequently take of 70%+ of an opponents HP in a two-hit combo.

CP combat is arguably too far the other way but the TTK in no-CP is ridiculous. It's Call Of Duty with auto-aim.

I have all classes, stam n mag, BG-worthy; it's not uncommon on some of the builds to end my matches with zero deaths.

So I personally don't have this problem myself unless I'm on a glass cannon build and get sloppy; try adjusting either your build or your choice in active mitigation.

ChunkyCat · September 2018

*** you talkin bout Willis?

Do we even play in the same game? Everyone’s a tanky healer nowadays. The ones that aren’t just add to someone else’s kill streak.

Lexxypwns · September 2018

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

Finviuswe · September 2018

Far too low if ur bad

scipionumatia · September 2018

I havent had this problem in battlegrounds ever unless i get ulti-dumped.

some things to try if you feel your dying super quick-
run heavy armor or a defensive set like impreg. or brass
keep buffs up, If your not good at this or want to free up bar space run chiudon
run a CC to better control opponents
become a vamp to gain undeath passive
keep HoT up

also if its a fight you cant win dont be ashamed to run to either escape or gain better positioning.

also line of sight

Jinchuu · September 2018

TC is either talking about below-50 Bgs or plays in the bottom MMR bracket to have come tothis conclusion

Crixus8000 · September 2018

This will never happen. 90% of Eso pvpers are all about damage. Look how many people complain about blocking and tanky builds, they get so angry when they can't kill someone.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

Really ? Not even from snipe ? Unless someone is running a perma block build or a 70k health tank I don't think that's possible.

Lexxypwns · September 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

This will never happen. 90% of Eso pvpers are all about damage. Look how many people complain about blocking and tanky builds, they get so angry when they can't kill someone.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

Really ? Not even from snipe ? Unless someone is running a perma block build or a 70k health tank I don't think that's possible.

Snipe usually hits me for ~5k. Which is less than 25% of my health. And you can believe that if you’re using snipe as a spammable you’re dead asap

Crixus8000 · September 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

This will never happen. 90% of Eso pvpers are all about damage. Look how many people complain about blocking and tanky builds, they get so angry when they can't kill someone.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

Really ? Not even from snipe ? Unless someone is running a perma block build or a 70k health tank I don't think that's possible.

Snipe usually hits me for ~5k. Which is less than 25% of my health. And you can believe that if you’re using snipe as a spammable you’re dead asap

Nice

your char must be really tanky. You play cp campaign I guess ? I run a tanky setup in no cp but snipe often hits me anything from 3-12k usually 5-7k avarage

lucky_dutch · September 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

A spammable + weaved light attack from most classes can easily hit for 6-8k without any weapon or armor procs. If you have 32k HP in no-CP BGs then you're a tank spec which is a fringe case.

Lexxypwns · September 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

A spammable + weaved light attack from most classes can easily hit for 6-8k without any weapon or armor procs. If you have 32k HP in no-CP BGs then you're a tank spec which is a fringe case.

No, I’ve got a bit over 23k. I don’t take 6-8k from a light attack+spammable though. Probably I build in a way that makes sense for no-CP and understand the way defensive mechanics work there as compared to how they work in CP

Finviuswe · September 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

This will never happen. 90% of Eso pvpers are all about damage. Look how many people complain about blocking and tanky builds, they get so angry when they can't kill someone.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I never take 25% of my health from a single spammable

Really ? Not even from snipe ? Unless someone is running a perma block build or a 70k health tank I don't think that's possible.

Snipe usually hits me for ~5k. Which is less than 25% of my health. And you can believe that if you’re using snipe as a spammable you’re dead asap

Snipe lul.

Who derives enjoyment out of being primarily a snipe spammer. I mean really

ATomiX96 · September 2018

You just gotta know what you are doing and adjust your build to nonCP environment, then you dont get chunked for 20% of your hp from one surprise attack. For example Impen doesnt have nearly as much value in nonCP environment as it does in CP. Its more about raw resistances, slightly higher HP pool than in CP enviroment, cost reduction and knowing your class' defensive utility and passives.

scipionumatia · September 2018

@lucky_dutch what class are you playing? and stam or mag? maybe we can help you out so your not dying super quick

Edit- you say you play 3 specs. what sets and skills do you run on your favorite/main character?

lucky_dutch · September 2018

scipionumatia wrote: »

@lucky_dutch what class are you playing? and stam or mag? maybe we can help you out so your not dying super quick

Edit- you say you play 3 specs. what sets and skills do you run on your favorite/main character?

@scipionumatia Stamden, Stamblade, Magblade.

I appreciate your offer of help but I'm not saying "help, I die too fast", I'm saying "everyone dies too fast". I delete people in unavoidable combos (fear->bow->impale being a perfect example) just as often as they do the same to me.

Don't like, and have never liked, extremely bursty combat because it devalues skill in favor of crit RNG & gank tactics.

scipionumatia · September 2018

@lucky_dutch i do agree the combat time in small scale has gone down when compared to the past (especially no-cp) but unless your stacking really high into damage spec i dont think your going to kill someone with that combo unless they had been fighting someone else and are low on resources. i also agree fear may need to be looked at, not the way the skill works but rather the glitchy-ness of it.
If you are stacking really high into damage spec i could understand why you think everyone dies too fast cause you would be a glass cannon build, killing quick but getting put down equally as quick. Have you ever tried a brawler type build? Its more rounded, not as high burst but you can survive well. Stamden would be pretty good for it.

lucky_dutch · September 2018

scipionumatia wrote: »

@lucky_dutch i do agree the combat time in small scale has gone down when compared to the past (especially no-cp) but unless your stacking really high into damage spec i dont think your going to kill someone with that combo unless they had been fighting someone else and are low on resources. i also agree fear may need to be looked at, not the way the skill works but rather the glitchy-ness of it.
If you are stacking really high into damage spec i could understand why you think everyone dies too fast cause you would be a glass cannon build, killing quick but getting put down equally as quick. Have you ever tried a brawler type build? Its more rounded, not as high burst but you can survive well. Stamden would be pretty good for it.

True that fear cannot be broken from like 50% of the time but thats a different issue. If you've used a pot, bow can crit for like 9-10k easily. Add a weaved light attack and weapon glyph proc and you'll get a lot of people down to the 25% range in no-CP. Almost every class has a similar combo that can delete people too fast.

If they buffed battle spirit the combat would be so much better.

MaxJrFTW · September 2018

I agree. Eventually everybody will be running heavy armor and defensive sets in PvP. Either that or everybody will be running stuff like Viper/Sloads/Valkyn.

As someone who comes from WoW, i can relate non cp PvP to low lvl PvP in WoW which nobody takes seriously because u die instantly. Either reduce pvp dmg by a further 20-30%, or bring back CP bgs? Maybe that's just the way ESO PvP is meant to be, but tbh it sucks unless you have a healer.

The_Brosteen · September 2018

Have you tried "learning to play", or "getting good, kid"?

I have found that this advice has helped me tremendously in no cp