Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

"There should be no global cool-downs" and "light attacks should also follow global cool-downs" are two different arguments, neither of which I argued for. I'm not sure what's lapsing in your reading comprehension skill, but both of those are bad ideas and having explained already why "no global cool-downs" is a bad idea, I'll go ahead and explain why light attacks following GCDs is also a bad idea.

DPS for everyone (everyone with skill, anyway) would drop across the board. Some content in this game is a DPS race (execute phases in trial bosses, for example). If everyone were to take a 15-25% DPS hit (some builds obviously are more reliant on light attack weaving as DPS boosts, whereas some are less reliant or even use heavy attacks instead [though this is admittedly less common]), then some groups which are currently able to clear some veteran content would no longer be able to. The workaround for this would be if ZOS were to decrease the health, or dumb-down the mechanics and damage output of some bosses. Since that is a hefty undertaking for a development team that is devoted to pushing out new content regularly, and since so few people are complaining about light attack weaving as you are, it is probably not on the priority list at all.

If the system were like this, granted, I wouldn't leave the game. I just appreciate what light attack weaving dose for DPS, and I appreciate that (even though it is easy to learn and doesn't take much time) it is an investment of time and effort that shows a player is willing to work for spots in those scoreboard trial runs. You don't have to agree with me, that's your prerogative. But at the end of the day, light attack weaving is not game breaking, most content can be cleared without it, and not nearly enough people agree with you to make a difference. That's where we are on this issue.

EDIT: By the way, for clarity's sake, my point is that the system is fine the way it is and should not be changed. I feel this is necessary to point out because you seem to think that the only two options in this debate are "get rid of GCDs" or "make LAs follow GCSs" and the issue is not as binary as you would try to lead other readers to believe.

And my point is, if we use your argument for keeping light attack weaving, we can get rid of all GCDs altogether. It's a stupid mechanic, just admit it. The DPS output can easily be fixed by buffing something else, and it would also bring the floor and the ceiling closer (the thing that the devs actually try to do, and the thing that would be VERY welcome in PUGs).

"Just admit it?" Like I'm in denial about something? We disagree fundamentally, there's nothing I'll "admit" to you because I actually like light attack weaving and animation cancelling.

The DPS output adjustment that you think can be fixed by "buffing something else" would have to be buffing everything else because if they only buff spammables or AOEs or whatever, then it will immediately and unnecessarily imbalance every build style.

The devs are most certainly not trying to bring the floor and the ceiling closer together. They are trying (primarily) to balance the classes in game and make sure that DPS capabilities are as close to uniform as possible across class lines (they aren't doing a good job of it, per the last round of PTS patch notes, but theoretically, that is their goal). This is evidenced by the introduction of more challenging content, and the fact that they aren't changing the level of difficulty in existing content. Ever wonder why DLC dungeons are harder? It's because they are made for end-game players who are already very experienced and have top-tier gear and are bored of running CoH I. This stands in stark contrast to your assertion that they want to "bring the floor and ceiling closer." The same goes with the craglorn trials, which are universally agreed to be easier than MoL, or HoF.

"...that would be VERY welcome in PUGs)." Ah, now we get to the root of your problem. You play with PUGs, and you hate them because they aren't good, and you want everyone to have a "push this to win" button. Well on that issue, you and I will never see eye to eye. Skill in this game, as with skill in anything, requires effort to be put in and practice. The way that manifests itself in ESO's combat system is with animation cancelling and light attack weaving, but I suspect that you'd be happy with PUGs just filling their roles and wearing matching sets, and not trying to heal with a 2h maul.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

"There should be no global cool-downs" and "light attacks should also follow global cool-downs" are two different arguments, neither of which I argued for. I'm not sure what's lapsing in your reading comprehension skill, but both of those are bad ideas and having explained already why "no global cool-downs" is a bad idea, I'll go ahead and explain why light attacks following GCDs is also a bad idea.

DPS for everyone (everyone with skill, anyway) would drop across the board. Some content in this game is a DPS race (execute phases in trial bosses, for example). If everyone were to take a 15-25% DPS hit (some builds obviously are more reliant on light attack weaving as DPS boosts, whereas some are less reliant or even use heavy attacks instead [though this is admittedly less common]), then some groups which are currently able to clear some veteran content would no longer be able to. The workaround for this would be if ZOS were to decrease the health, or dumb-down the mechanics and damage output of some bosses. Since that is a hefty undertaking for a development team that is devoted to pushing out new content regularly, and since so few people are complaining about light attack weaving as you are, it is probably not on the priority list at all.

If the system were like this, granted, I wouldn't leave the game. I just appreciate what light attack weaving dose for DPS, and I appreciate that (even though it is easy to learn and doesn't take much time) it is an investment of time and effort that shows a player is willing to work for spots in those scoreboard trial runs. You don't have to agree with me, that's your prerogative. But at the end of the day, light attack weaving is not game breaking, most content can be cleared without it, and not nearly enough people agree with you to make a difference. That's where we are on this issue.

EDIT: By the way, for clarity's sake, my point is that the system is fine the way it is and should not be changed. I feel this is necessary to point out because you seem to think that the only two options in this debate are "get rid of GCDs" or "make LAs follow GCSs" and the issue is not as binary as you would try to lead other readers to believe.

And my point is, if we use your argument for keeping light attack weaving, we can get rid of all GCDs altogether. It's a stupid mechanic, just admit it. The DPS output can easily be fixed by buffing something else, and it would also bring the floor and the ceiling closer (the thing that the devs actually try to do, and the thing that would be VERY welcome in PUGs).

"Just admit it?" Like I'm in denial about something? We disagree fundamentally, there's nothing I'll "admit" to you because I actually like light attack weaving and animation cancelling.

The DPS output adjustment that you think can be fixed by "buffing something else" would have to be buffing everything else because if they only buff spammables or AOEs or whatever, then it will immediately and unnecessarily imbalance every build style.

The devs are most certainly not trying to bring the floor and the ceiling closer together. They are trying (primarily) to balance the classes in game and make sure that DPS capabilities are as close to uniform as possible across class lines (they aren't doing a good job of it, per the last round of PTS patch notes, but theoretically, that is their goal). This is evidenced by the introduction of more challenging content, and the fact that they aren't changing the level of difficulty in existing content. Ever wonder why DLC dungeons are harder? It's because they are made for end-game players who are already very experienced and have top-tier gear and are bored of running CoH I. This stands in stark contrast to your assertion that they want to "bring the floor and ceiling closer." The same goes with the craglorn trials, which are universally agreed to be easier than MoL, or HoF.

"...that would be VERY welcome in PUGs)." Ah, now we get to the root of your problem. You play with PUGs, and you hate them because they aren't good, and you want everyone to have a "push this to win" button. Well on that issue, you and I will never see eye to eye. Skill in this game, as with skill in anything, requires effort to be put in and practice. The way that manifests itself in ESO's combat system is with animation cancelling and light attack weaving, but I suspect that you'd be happy with PUGs just filling their roles and wearing matching sets, and not trying to heal with a 2h maul.

Yes, you are in denial. In denial about the fact that light attack weaving is exactly as bad as having no GCDs at all for exactly the same reasons. I don't know if it's you not reading or you refusing to fire up that last brain cell you have, but that's what reality looks like.

And yes, they do want to bring the floor and the ceiling closer, that's why they buffed light attacks in the first place.

Animation cancelling should only be a thing in situations when it makes sense. And if you have to cancel animations to do any content in the game, then either the content is overtuned or something about the combat system is broken, and I'm fairly confident it's not the former. What's the point of even playing a video game if you have no animations? May as well go play chess or something.

Light attack weaving is exactly the same as having no GCDs, huh? Alright folks, we're done here. Clearly we are talking about two very different games.

PS, they buffed light attacks and nerfed the damage of heavy attacks to give them more distinct roles as combat options, the former being for damage, and the latter being for sustain.

It's clear that you fired up your last brain cell a long time ago.

RavenSworn wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

"There should be no global cool-downs" and "light attacks should also follow global cool-downs" are two different arguments, neither of which I argued for. I'm not sure what's lapsing in your reading comprehension skill, but both of those are bad ideas and having explained already why "no global cool-downs" is a bad idea, I'll go ahead and explain why light attacks following GCDs is also a bad idea.

DPS for everyone (everyone with skill, anyway) would drop across the board. Some content in this game is a DPS race (execute phases in trial bosses, for example). If everyone were to take a 15-25% DPS hit (some builds obviously are more reliant on light attack weaving as DPS boosts, whereas some are less reliant or even use heavy attacks instead [though this is admittedly less common]), then some groups which are currently able to clear some veteran content would no longer be able to. The workaround for this would be if ZOS were to decrease the health, or dumb-down the mechanics and damage output of some bosses. Since that is a hefty undertaking for a development team that is devoted to pushing out new content regularly, and since so few people are complaining about light attack weaving as you are, it is probably not on the priority list at all.

If the system were like this, granted, I wouldn't leave the game. I just appreciate what light attack weaving dose for DPS, and I appreciate that (even though it is easy to learn and doesn't take much time) it is an investment of time and effort that shows a player is willing to work for spots in those scoreboard trial runs. You don't have to agree with me, that's your prerogative. But at the end of the day, light attack weaving is not game breaking, most content can be cleared without it, and not nearly enough people agree with you to make a difference. That's where we are on this issue.

EDIT: By the way, for clarity's sake, my point is that the system is fine the way it is and should not be changed. I feel this is necessary to point out because you seem to think that the only two options in this debate are "get rid of GCDs" or "make LAs follow GCSs" and the issue is not as binary as you would try to lead other readers to believe.

And my point is, if we use your argument for keeping light attack weaving, we can get rid of all GCDs altogether. It's a stupid mechanic, just admit it. The DPS output can easily be fixed by buffing something else, and it would also bring the floor and the ceiling closer (the thing that the devs actually try to do, and the thing that would be VERY welcome in PUGs).

"Just admit it?" Like I'm in denial about something? We disagree fundamentally, there's nothing I'll "admit" to you because I actually like light attack weaving and animation cancelling.

The DPS output adjustment that you think can be fixed by "buffing something else" would have to be buffing everything else because if they only buff spammables or AOEs or whatever, then it will immediately and unnecessarily imbalance every build style.

The devs are most certainly not trying to bring the floor and the ceiling closer together. They are trying (primarily) to balance the classes in game and make sure that DPS capabilities are as close to uniform as possible across class lines (they aren't doing a good job of it, per the last round of PTS patch notes, but theoretically, that is their goal). This is evidenced by the introduction of more challenging content, and the fact that they aren't changing the level of difficulty in existing content. Ever wonder why DLC dungeons are harder? It's because they are made for end-game players who are already very experienced and have top-tier gear and are bored of running CoH I. This stands in stark contrast to your assertion that they want to "bring the floor and ceiling closer." The same goes with the craglorn trials, which are universally agreed to be easier than MoL, or HoF.

"...that would be VERY welcome in PUGs)." Ah, now we get to the root of your problem. You play with PUGs, and you hate them because they aren't good, and you want everyone to have a "push this to win" button. Well on that issue, you and I will never see eye to eye. Skill in this game, as with skill in anything, requires effort to be put in and practice. The way that manifests itself in ESO's combat system is with animation cancelling and light attack weaving, but I suspect that you'd be happy with PUGs just filling their roles and wearing matching sets, and not trying to heal with a 2h maul.

Yes, you are in denial. In denial about the fact that light attack weaving is exactly as bad as having no GCDs at all for exactly the same reasons. I don't know if it's you not reading or you refusing to fire up that last brain cell you have, but that's what reality looks like.

And yes, they do want to bring the floor and the ceiling closer, that's why they buffed light attacks in the first place.

Animation cancelling should only be a thing in situations when it makes sense. And if you have to cancel animations to do any content in the game, then either the content is overtuned or something about the combat system is broken, and I'm fairly confident it's not the former. What's the point of even playing a video game if you have no animations? May as well go play chess or something.

Light attack weaving is exactly the same as having no GCDs, huh? Alright folks, we're done here. Clearly we are talking about two very different games.

PS, they buffed light attacks and nerfed the damage of heavy attacks to give them more distinct roles as combat options, the former being for damage, and the latter being for sustain.

It's clear that you fired up your last brain cell a long time ago.

You're done? Good riddance.

And yes, LA weaving is the same as not having a GCD, because that's exactly the effect it has, bypassing the cooldown to do an extra attack, killing server performance in the process and requiring people to play in unintuitive ways to be able to complete currently existing content.

There is a golden rule, if you have to explain your design, it is bad. And LA weaving violates this rule. I didn't even know it was a thing for the first year or so of playing ESO. And when I was told how it works, I wrote a macro for it the same day, because I prefer to fix what can be fixed rather than delude myself into believing that something broken is just to "increase skill cap" or some crap like that.

You sound like someone who entering a house with a hole in the roof assumes that it's designed that way. And when people tell you that it's broken, because the roof is supposed to protect you from rain, you retort with "it's just helping to separate those who are skillful enough to place the bed in such a way as to not get wet on rainy nights".

Problem is, the builders who made that hole are now reinforcing it, tiled it, and calling it a design feature.