Gaming addiction, should ZOS offer help?

Sylvermynx · September 2018

@Davor: My dad started smoking while he was hoboing on the rail lines - at 11 (1930). He smoked all those years.... He worked at NTS from 1959 until - hmm.... not sure.... maybe 1984. During some of those years he stayed with us in Vegas on weekends, and generally on Wednesdays (1975 on). Most weeks, he'd call if he needed stuff - cigs, toiletries, alcohol etc. - and I'd get it handled.

One Tuesday in early 1976, he called me at work and we chatted a bit. I said "So besides the carton, and the bottle, you need anything else?" Long quiet pause....

He said "No carton. I quit."

My desk partner told me my mouth would have swallowed a whale it was so wide. Serious.

He did. He quit cold turkey after smoking four or more packs a day from 1930 to 1976. He never smoked another cig. He told me later he really missed his pipe - but he couldn't NOT inhale, so....

If my dad could do it.... He WAS the singular most addictive personality I've ever known. And since I grew up in Vegas.... well....

Emmagoldman · September 2018

In all seriousness, don’t let anyone not let you think it’s not an important issue or just your problem. ZOS won’t be there for you

I had and to an extent do suffer from some of the symptoms associated with game addiction. It’s a struggle. I’m a vet and found gaming to be an escape. The gaming industry is massive and hires psychologists as consultants to examine how games can be more addictive, especially working off of the reward part of the mind. I could go on forever about that but the science is pretty robust.

I have now been teaching for 9 years and I have over several years curved my gaming though it’s still a struggle. I’m at a point of letting it go all together or seeing if I can keep it contained. I see a lot of individuals struggle with games that really help changed how much I play. It really was a realization of where it could lead. I’m a history teacher and I have students that literally can’t look at a screen without attempting to game. They have mood swings related to if they can play and even show up late every class because they have their nose to the tablet. They have lost interest in sports, clubs, even attempting to date. Professionally, I had to take a very serious look at gaming as it impacts my living and my ambition is to work with youth. Sadly, the average gamer is in the early 30s!

In game, I have been in raids in which you could hear someone baby crying. The guy was pissed off and neglected his child. I was new to this group that was organized and it seemed like a joke. I said you have fd. Priorities and was out.

Besides reading some Harvard and Stanford studies, I read hooked on games and unplugged: my journey into video game addiction and I found it helpful.

For people they feel they have game addiction, some things I did.

Take a moment to evaluate what you want in this life. I would hate *if* my ultimate life memories was grinding coh trying to find the perfected trained armor.

If it’s not fun, I dont do it. I no longer chase or stamp collect. If I miss a motif, so what? Some furniture set, oh well. I only log in now to do content I like. I play a maybe an hour, run three bgs. I don’t log in to do writs on 10 toons.

Family is first. I don’t care what content, If my gf wants to do something, I will step out right away.

I generally make the weekends off limit to gaming. I do slip from time to time, but set limits.

I don’t stay up late to play.

Level yourself up. You can examine stats, what’s op etc. do stuff for you. Log into duo.ingo, exercise even for 10 mins, do something that makes you better.

If you try and can’t get out of hardcore gaming, it may be time to leave all together.

I’m always down if you need someone to chat with! Best of luck.

MaxJrFTW · September 2018

So you have no self control and need other people to make decisions for you? "Flash news" Your problems aren't everybody's problems.

Emmagoldman · September 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So you have no self control and need other people to make decisions for you? "Flash news" Your problems aren't everybody's problems.

If you read the post, they stepped away from the game.

Maybe the author needs to put in in bullet points to help you comprehend. If only the devs could buff your reading comprehension.

In serious note, a software they could do what they are suggesting would be very marketable

MaxJrFTW · September 2018

Emmagoldman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So you have no self control and need other people to make decisions for you? "Flash news" Your problems aren't everybody's problems.

If you read the post, they stepped away from the game.

Maybe the author needs to put in in bullet points to help you comprehend. If only the devs could buff your reading comprehension.

In serious note, a software they could do what they are suggesting would be very marketable

I was answering the title, not his wall of text which i most definitely didn't bother to read. Either way, not my problem.

Sylvermynx · September 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So you have no self control and need other people to make decisions for you? "Flash news" Your problems aren't everybody's problems.

If you read the post, they stepped away from the game.

Maybe the author needs to put in in bullet points to help you comprehend. If only the devs could buff your reading comprehension.

In serious note, a software they could do what they are suggesting would be very marketable

I was answering the title, not his wall of text which i most definitely didn't bother to read. Either way, not my problem.

Well.... not your problem unless your government decides to MAKE it a problem.

Think about it.

Finviuswe · September 2018

No no. You should be thanking ZOS for the product they provide. Addiction is a symptom of enjoyment.

Lack of self control is on u[/u.

Androconium · September 2018

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

ZoS should never have responsibility over someones weakness, the onus is on them to get sorted out, not the devs.

So. What if the "devs" as you call them, are instructed to write code that results in addictive game play and/or behaviour?
That could never happen here...

On a slightly more aggressive note: You clearly don't know what you are talking about, so stop.

Reverb · September 2018

Davor wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I never had any issues quitting these things..

For 30 days do not use electricity. No games, no cell phones, no TV, no radio. Can you do that? If so then I am impressed. Most people couldn't do it.

I would lose my job. In the time it would take me to land a new one in my field I would probably lose my home and possibly my wife (because being unemployed and in foreclosure would make me an unbearable ass). No thanks, I'll stay tethered to tech.

ConeOfSilence · September 2018

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I think there should be a tool for people to set a number of hours on their account. Also, they should stop selling loot boxes that exploit people that (evidence shows) are predisposed genetically to engage in addictive behaviors... Like gambling with loot boxes.

Loot boxes are one of the biggest rip-offs I have even seen in gaming they remind me of poker machines offering big rewards but not paying out much, the house always wins.

Androconium · September 2018

wrote:

tobacco companies want you to smoke and breweries want you to drink, at the end of the day you can only rely on yourself and hopefully supportive friends and family.

Tobacco companies know what their products do. They could produce a different product.
Instead they choose to find new markets where knowledge on the issue is low.

So is the problem really one of personal responsibility?

The whole concept of marketing is to identify and target your weaknesses in order to take your money from you. You need very few of the products that you have stuffed up your nose to snort on.

NolaArch · September 2018

I agree with the comments regarding personal responsibility and the onus being on the addicted and not the company. I think an earlier proposal of optional restrictions would be a good place to start. I wouldn’t like to see forced restrictions, however. I don’t have an addictive personality and would prefer not to be treated as though I do.

However, I do sympathize with you and I am glad for you that you recognized your addiction and were able to do something about it.

lagrue · September 2018

Androconium wrote: »

wrote:

tobacco companies want you to smoke and breweries want you to drink, at the end of the day you can only rely on yourself and hopefully supportive friends and family.

Tobacco companies know what their products do. They could produce a different product.
Instead they choose to find new markets where knowledge on the issue is low.

So is the problem really one of personal responsibility?

The whole concept of marketing is to identify and target your weaknesses in order to take your money from you. You need very few of the products that you have stuffed up your nose to snort on.

Yeah except that's not true. Tobacco and Alcohol are both still thriving in the first world countries of the world. The most educated countries in the world. Same with gambling, drugs, sugary foods - you name it. Anything that is addictive actually tends to survive quite well even with education of how bad that crap is being out there. That's not to say they don't do well where there's no education - but you can't deny reality. Those industries are thriving with or without adequate knowledge.

Addiction isn't a personal choice - but management of it is. Just because they'd identified your weakness, does not in any way mean you can't resist. Is it hard when it's a disease? Hell yeah... that's why you SEEK help, not expect it to be given by companies out of good will. It isn't their responsibility - they didn't design the product to entrap addicts, no matter how much you believe that.

Do game developers use psychologists to figure out what makes our dopamine receptors fire? Hell yes (well, some anyway) - dopamine is responsible for happiness and rewarding feelings - exactly what you should feel playing a game. Is that manipulating addiction? No. Is it a potential vulnerability to somebody who is an addict? Yes. Is that ZOS intent? Highly, highly unlikely, they just want you to come back to their game time and time again - that's not malicious intent.

We can all try to see the boogeyman in the closet if we want - but the reality is ZOS didn't make the game, or hell even loot boxes with the explicit intent of exploiting addicts. They designed their game and systems for people who are mentally sound. If they designed their game around the potential of addicts playing it... well bye bye RNG in general, no more farming, no more loot, no more reason to play. "Gambling" with time is a core aspect of MMOs in general.

None of this is on ZOS shoulders and they shouldn't be getting involved in addiction recovery programs and such when that's clearly not their line of expertise.

Nivzruo_ESO · September 2018

*** did I just read? U fkin with us right?

Cadbury · September 2018

Getting the government involved may end up being the optimal solution. Humans have poor impulse control, and frankly speaking they sometimes need to be saved from themselves.

menathradiel · September 2018

Davor wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

The point is he/she is bringing it to attention. He/she is not seeking help.

Also why do casinos keep saying (or at least in Ontario) gamble reasonably and in your limits? So yes casinos warn us and tell us about gambling addiction.

So since your example is what you use, funny how they do it that would mean since casino's do it, then Zenimax should be able to do it as well. Thank you very much for proving that it should be done.

Also casinos don't let minors play. So you are saying it's ok for Zenimax to prey on minors in this way.

I used to work in a casino, and casinos prompting people to gamble responsibly is a worthless PR exercise. It's like having a disclaimer - a way for casinos to say, "hey look, we told them not to gamble so much, it's not our fault they lost their money."

The most useful tool for problem gamblers is the self-exclusion programme, and that has to be initiated by the addict themselves.

If you're looking for a self-exclusion programme for games, there already is one. It's called: uninstall.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the OP or anyone dealing with an addiction, but the simple truth is that the only person who can break an addiction is the addict. With the best will in the world you cannot force someone to stop destructive behaviour, they have to want to stop. If they don't want to stop they will find a way around whatever restrictions you place on them.

lagrue · September 2018

menathradiel wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

The point is he/she is bringing it to attention. He/she is not seeking help.

Also why do casinos keep saying (or at least in Ontario) gamble reasonably and in your limits? So yes casinos warn us and tell us about gambling addiction.

So since your example is what you use, funny how they do it that would mean since casino's do it, then Zenimax should be able to do it as well. Thank you very much for proving that it should be done.

Also casinos don't let minors play. So you are saying it's ok for Zenimax to prey on minors in this way.

I used to work in a casino, and casinos prompting people to gamble responsibly is a worthless PR exercise. It's like having a disclaimer - a way for casinos to say, "hey look, we told them not to gamble so much, it's not our fault they lost their money."

The most useful tool for problem gamblers is the self-exclusion programme, and that has to be initiated by the addict themselves.

If you're looking for a self-exclusion programme for games, there already is one. It's called: uninstall.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the OP or anyone dealing with an addiction, but the simple truth is that the only person who can break an addiction is the addict. With the best will in the world you cannot force someone to stop destructive behaviour, they have to want to stop. If they don't want to stop they will find a way around whatever restrictions you place on them.

No matter how much anybody says you're unsympathetic - you're 100% on the money. This is taken as fact in the actual profession of addiction counseling.

We can surely support addicts through their recovery, but any sort of absorbing responsibility on their part is dangerous to them.

Davor · September 2018

That is why I don't go to casinos. Can't be tempted if I don't go. As for video games it's harder because it's every where. I guess I got out before I could gamble easily online and now on cell phones. To easy to do. Thank god I got out and knew my limits and I stopped when I did.

I could feel the "bug" come back sadly when playing ESO and the crates. I almost got caught in it. Luckily for me, I ws able to see what I was doing and was able to stop. Hate to see for others who can't.

Shawnwizzle · September 2018

Gaming addiction is a real thing. I personally have to watch myself because being a recovering drug addict (a little over 3 years sober!) I know that I obviously have an addictive personality. However, I do not feel that ZOS has any responsibility to keep people from becoming addicted. I do think that if video game companies offered some kind of help to people that do become addicted, that it wouldn't be a horrible idea. The idea of them putting some kind of cap on how many hours you can play doesn't sound like a good idea at all. Speaking as a recovering addict, some thibgs in life are just your responsibility. That's just my perspective, though.

Iccotak · September 2018

Pack away the gaming computer,
Block gaming forums,
Focus on other things

ScardyFox · September 2018

nice-we-are-beautiful-quotes-the-importance-of-accepting-personal-responsibility-sbm-we-are-beautiful-quotes.png

Come on now...

ArchMikem · September 2018

If my account gets temp banned cause i was logged on for a total of 5 or more hours in one day i would be absolutely livid.

I'm unemployed at the moment job searching. I don't have any friends so gaming is all i have to offer me some level of joy. But I'm not addicted. I go to the gym twice a day and I've burned 70lbs in the last 6 months. If i get hired here soon thats just gonna eat more into my screen time and im fine with that, cause money is still more important than playing Fashion Scrolls Online, even if its all i have atm.

ZOS can put in little hints and messages all they want but they better not restrict my access just cause im enjoying their game "too much".

Ackwalan · September 2018

Whatever happened to having responsibility over your own life?

SHADOW2KK · September 2018

Androconium wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

ZoS should never have responsibility over someones weakness, the onus is on them to get sorted out, not the devs.

So. What if the "devs" as you call them, are instructed to write code that results in addictive game play and/or behaviour?
That could never happen here...

On a slightly more aggressive note: You clearly don't know what you are talking about, so stop.

I do know that some people have addictive personalities, or are generally weak, and their problem is theirs to fix, they can step up and be a man and sort it, why should gaming companies care, and nice try at aggression, well it might intimidate something.

redlink1979 · September 2018

Hello there!
I have more than 2K hours on my main char, I have 6 chars at the moment and this game didn't destroyed my life at all. I love gaming, I have several platforms but I also have a full time job and a life outside gaming. Gaming is my hobbie but not my life, that's what your posture should always be. It's only a matter of management, discipline and focus. At least 5h hours per day of gaming you wrote, and I wonder about what you do besides gaming: do you study at all? do you have a job? do you live with your parents? If you can have a full time occupation you will have less time to play and to be addicted.
I honestly hope you get better, community will always be here to try to help you. You're not alone.

Neoealth · September 2018

I personally believe people should be responsible for their own actions and well being. I do not think we should be baby sat by companies or anyone else.

If you recognise you have an addiction, then take action yourself. I've been addicted to things in the past and the only person who could help me, was me.

greylox · September 2018

No, take responsibility for your own actions.

Ahnog · September 2018

I feel for the person who started this topic, but for every one of his type there are 100 people who keep living their lives and view this as a hobby.

Fasold666 · September 2018

Hey @Ectheliontnacil mate

just wanted to tell you that you have my deepest respect that you were able to break the cycle of the online gaming addiction you were struggling with and found more productive ways for you to put the energy in which you before put into ESO. Also respect that you made a public post about it because unfortunately it`s still mostly seen as a taboo subject in society just like many other psychological problems and disorders.
Even tho I ofc have another story then you I experienced similar typical issues of online gaming addiction and also made the decision to stay away from playing MMORPGs aswell. I can understand the frustration you have because you feel like you lost time. But I wouldn`t worry too much about it because you made a very important experience, know better now and that will influence your future in a good way. Since you were talking about an "addictive personality" I hope that you will find the cause of this and that you can accept it and have a positive influence on it. I wish you all the best man.

Something additional:
Pretty sad to see that some people connect pathological online gaming behavior and addiction in general with just a "lack of discipline", "weakness" and whatnot. It just shows the huge lack of knowledge about this topic.
Same as the people that defend video game companies in this topic and argue that its completely up to the individual and its own responsibility. Of course in the end it`s up to oneself how to behave and to take the responsibility for your life and the consequences of your decisions. But that doesn`t change the fact that gaming companies specifically exploit specific points of the human nature and implement specific gaming elements with the goal to bind the player as good as possible with the game and to generate as much money as possible out of it.
Also I don´t understand why so many people start to argue that "it`s just a hobby" and it almost looks like they are offended and they start to protect their hobby. Yes of course it is and it can be a hobby. If it`s not too excessive and there isn`t any psychological strain attached to it, nobody is saying anything against it. But people are different and have different backgrounds.

Lord_Etrigan · September 2018

Wow!!!

It'ts amazing how toxic the forums can be.

The OP merely stated that he/she had a problem and managed to overcome said problem. He/she suggested that in order to assist other gamers who might face similar problems, the gaming companies can help by putting measures in place that could help those who happen to find themselves in a situation that could potentially lead to the gamer getting into serious trouble with gaming addiction.

Yes we know it's not the Gaming companies responsibility to look after customers who find themselves in this predicament but in the long run it will be beneficial to the gaming community to keep their customers. That does not mean that the Gaming companies are innocent in helping create the problem and exploiting the problem created for profit.

Food companies use specific types of colors that stimulate or encourage the senses to make people hungry with their fast food adds.

Imagine you have a gamer who goes at it 24/7, 7 days a week. He/she will eventually burn out or worse start turning to a life of crime to sustain his/her gaming habit. Just like a drug addict or alcoholic or even perfectionist can become addicted to a product, so will a gamer. He/She must have all the motifs, all the pets, all the furniture, all the achievements etc.

Some of these cost real money to achieve as we all know that allot of cool stuff are hidden behind crown crates (can lead to gambling addiction). This in turn can lead to person spending what he cannot afford and eventually fall into the debt trap and may or may not start selling things around the home to support the habit. In the short run it benefits the Gaming industry but not in the long run because you could have had that and other gamers as lifetime clients but now they will become short term clients looking for the next fix.

However the sense I'm getting from some of the responses are:

1. Not my problem
2. It's your own fault
3. You are weak-minded
4. The Gaming companies ow you nothing.
5. Get over it.

I'm on ESO when I get home from work from about 5 in the afternoon until 12:00 midnight (12:00 being my cutoff as I have work in morning and don't want to end up a zombi)

Weekends I can go 24 hours non stop (At times I don't leave my chair except to shower and get into bed) and have to fend off some scary looks from my wife for spending so much time on the game. Is it healthy . NO WAY IN HELL!!!

'I't does take a toll on my relationship as bonding time does suffer. So am I addicted, Maybe!

The point I'm making is try not to be so judgmental because you never know, It could be YOU who fall into the addiction trap.