Gaming addiction, should ZOS offer help?

Ectheliontnacil · September 2018

Hey everyone!

I'd like to discuss the topic of gaming addiction in this thread. Gaming had a great impact on my life and for this reason I'd really like to help anyone going through the same thing. Sadly I don't think I can help and neither can ZOS, only the person who is addicted can truly do something about it. However it is in ZOS' power to put a couple "safety nets" in place (e.g. time restrictions, temp bans, overview over your playing behaviour) AND they could offer some help to addicts in the form of counselling or by merely suggesting that one should see a professional about their gaming addiction (after your time in game exceeds say 5 hrs a day on average).

I have played the game over 5,5k hours, that's over 200 days, comes close to 2/3 of a year spent in game! Some may be shocked at the sheer amount of time I have on my eso account while others may have played the game for even longer. It's just a number, the point is however, it was enough to affect my personal life (in a very bad way of course).
There were periods of time where I spent pretty much every free minute thinking about what I'd do in eso once I got home. I was unable to focus on "real" goals in life due to my addiction and my personal life deteriorated very rapidly over the course of the last 2 years or so.

Even though I'd already been playing the game for roughly 2 years prior to the start of university, that's when eso really became a problem for me. I didn't really have a set timetable anymore, so I was free to play to my hearts content. By the end of the first semester I'd given up on my studies completely and didn't spend any time at all learning outside of lectures, some time hanging out with friends and the rest playing eso. At the start of the second semester I dropped out, because I had zero enthusiasm to further pursue law (which is what I'd studied).

Funny thing is, I felt awful the entire year. Guilty because of my endless procrastination and unhappy with pretty much every aspect of my life. I wanted to quit so badly! But I wasn't able to do it. So I carried on playing, all the while sinking deeper into a bottomless pit of despair, until I hit rock bottom. In July I spent like a week on an emperor run/decorating spree, I don't know how many hours I played a day. Anyways after getting emp, decorating my house (sth I'd always wanted to do) in a really awesome way, did I feel a sense of accomplishment? No!
I didn't feel satisfied or happy, after all I hadn't actually accomplished anything. Instead I felt exhausted, weak and utterly disappointed.

I realised then how pathetic I had become. I was a slave to the game, unable to let it go even for a second, condemned to an eternity spent in the harsh glow of my computer screen. All the time I was frantically searching the game for meaning, for a purpose, without realising that there was none...

I'd how exactly it happened, but I've since completely lost the motivation to play. Haven't been online once since the beginning of July, it seems I was finally able to let it go. I started doing sports again, started a new course at university, developed some "healthy" hobbies etc. Basically I feel a lot better now, doesn't change the fact that I lost a year of my life, but at least I can move forwards now.

The point is if I hadn't burnt out, I would still be playing the game, possibly for years to come. I'd absolutely destroy my future and Zeni would be perfectly happy to take my money from crown store items and crates while watching me squandering my life on PvP gameplay. That thought is frightening to me!
I have an addictive personality I guess and should have therefore never been let near an MMO. I know that it's my own problem and that it's not ZOS' job to help useless losers who 24/7 the game. However there's laws in place to regulate the effects of other addictive substances/practices on society (mainly by banning them in the case of drugs and gambling for example). And imo gaming/youtube etc. can be even worse than drugs. Gaming can slowly take over people's lives until they are completely lost inside a virtual world.

I think Zeni does have a certain responsibility towards their customers, they should offer help, warn and possibly take actions against severely addictive behaviour. If you play 20 hrs a day, your account should be banned (*** call the psychiatrist while you're at it), you are sick, that's just how it is! There's too few regulations in place to combat gaming addiction, mainly because people don't take it seriously. If were not careful younger generations could very well go to "waste" because they're all indoctrinated with fortnite and stuff...if Zeni and other companies don't take measures themselves, they might soon suffer the repercussions.

I know it's not in their immediate financial interest to discourage addicts from playing. But it's morally despicable and very dangerous in the long run.

Anyways sorry for rambling on, it's late... xD
. Share your stories if you like and let me know what you think.

WrathOfInnos · September 2018

I think ZoS is offering a quitting aid. It is called “Murkmire Patch” and will be hitting live servers in a few weeks.

MagicalLija · September 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think ZoS is offering a quitting aid. It is called “Murkmire Patch” and will be hitting live servers in a few weeks.

Thats a big oof

Ectheliontnacil · September 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think ZoS is offering a quitting aid. It is called “Murkmire Patch” and will be hitting live servers in a few weeks.

Haha it's that bad eh? ^^

MagicalLija · September 2018

Can't you just ask them to ban your account lol

WrathOfInnos · September 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think ZoS is offering a quitting aid. It is called “Murkmire Patch” and will be hitting live servers in a few weeks.

Haha it's that bad eh? ^^

It’s got some pretty bad changes that have caused record numbers of “I’m quitting” threads this week.

Ectheliontnacil · September 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think ZoS is offering a quitting aid. It is called “Murkmire Patch” and will be hitting live servers in a few weeks.

Haha it's that bad eh? ^^

It’s got some pretty bad changes that have caused record numbers of “I’m quitting” threads this week.

So Zo$ is really helping people quit then. Guess there was no need for this discussion after all

.

AlexanderDeLarge · September 2018

I think there should be a tool for people to set a number of hours on their account. Also, they should stop selling loot boxes that exploit people that (evidence shows) are predisposed genetically to engage in addictive behaviors... Like gambling with loot boxes.

danno8 · September 2018

Video games release a whole lot of neurotransmitters, and having those levels dip down (while going to work, school, studying or just living in general) can make you feel like crap.

The best thing you can do is what you did; sports and exercise. These activities release endorphins much like gaming does and can be a good means of weaning yourself off or at least reducing your play time. It also has massive benefits otherwise that I don't think I need to get into.

(Actually that reminds me that streamer who used to play ESO then quit dramatically, got himself totally buff and is doing better than ever now. Can someone remember his name?)

To respond to your title, I think the only thing a company like ZoS can do or should do is to offer information on gaming addiction, and where people can get answers to questions about it. I don't like companies being the providers of a service, and the providers (financially or otherwise) of a second service that is meant to limit the first. There is a tremendous conflict of interest there.

Like governments that are both the controllers of alcohol and the providers for alcohol addiction. "Enjoy Responsibly" they say, yet they profit greatly from the more you enjoy. Not cool.

Davor · September 2018

I thought this was a joke at first, but it really is a serious issue. Just like how a bar is responsible for people drinking and driving the same can be said for here too. Lucky for me, I don't have an addiction to gaming, but I know what you mean about the "addiction bug". That is why I stay away from casinos. It almost ended bad for me.

I also see the gaming addiction or should I say electronic addiction in my kids. Hell even my wife with Facebook. Zenimax should at least put a warning out. People have died over this.

While it may seem trivial for lots of people it is a problem. Sadly the only time companies like Zenimax will do the "proper" thing is when the lawyers get involved and it will cost money. Just like how we have the "epilepsy" warnings when we play video games. This way if anything happened the companies say we were warned.

What can Zenimax really do for ESO? Log out an addict will just go to another account and keep playing ESO or another MMO game. So limiting time they really can't do it. All they can do is give warnings. Maybe a pop up saying "been 3 hours straight, maybe time to take a break, get up walk a bit shake the hands" or something like that.

After all at least in Ontario, Canada it's illegal to keep selling alcohol to people when drunk. Can something be done to video games? At lest MMOs? Thing is, before it is done "legally" companies should do it before hand and take the step so governments don't get involved. Good example the gambling with crates/boxes/loot what ever.

Good post. I hope the orignal poster can still have fun and game when he can. I hope everything goes well for you and others as well.

boombazookajd · September 2018

They try to break your addiction about every 3 months when they break the game for a few days, and then they really are trying to do it with Murkmire

Juju_beans · September 2018

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · September 2018

geng14159 · September 2018

As the original poster mentioned, many things do have fail safes in place to try to stop or help people who have addictive personalities. You aren't allowed to sell alcohol to a person who is already drunk. Casinos are obligated to ask a person if they are okay after they gamble for so many hours. It would be nice to see some type of check on video games.

I am pretty good about regulating my own game playing but I have been known to play for 12 hours straight and not even notice. I wouldn't mind having something pop up (as long as it didn't interrupt my combat) to alert me that I've been playing for a certain amount of time and may need to stop. It could be configurable so people could turn it off.

Anyway, I would like to see something like this. My niece and nephew are already becoming zombies to screens and they are under 10 years old. Who knows how bad they will be once they become teenagers.

acw37162 · September 2018

No, personal responsibility is a MF but it’s still there.

SHADOW2KK · September 2018

ZoS should never have responsibility over someones weakness, the onus is on them to get sorted out, not the devs.

TheCyberDruid · September 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TQjEn6cpQ

Juju_beans · September 2018

geng14159 wrote: »

As the original poster mentioned, many things do have fail safes in place to try to stop or help people who have addictive personalities. You aren't allowed to sell alcohol to a person who is already drunk. Casinos are obligated to ask a person if they are okay after they gamble for so many hours. It would be nice to see some type of check on video games.

I am pretty good about regulating my own game playing but I have been known to play for 12 hours straight and not even notice. I wouldn't mind having something pop up (as long as it didn't interrupt my combat) to alert me that I've been playing for a certain amount of time and may need to stop. It could be configurable so people could turn it off.

Anyway, I would like to see something like this. My niece and nephew are already becoming zombies to screens and they are under 10 years old. Who knows how bad they will be once they become teenagers.

If you play on a PC/Mac there are alarm clocks you can run outside of the game.
Set them before you start playing.

Kids that young should be monitored by their parents regarding computer time.

UnseenCat · September 2018

Ugh... phone games are a whole different form of Skinner box, worse for sufferers of addictive personalities than more "conventional" game types.

While some form of reminder timer that pops up on the screen may be helpful for some, I'd be afraid that for someone wrestling with a serious addition to gaming, that it would be no better than an alcoholic with an alarm on their watch or phone. It's still totally within their control to ignore it.

A person, or people, who care and can gently but persistently nudge you to set the game aside for a while and just go outside for a walk, talk a bit, do some physical exercise -- whatever -- is most effective. If you have an addiction, your best ally is a trusted friend or friends who can reach out to you.

How much time is healthy to spend in-game is going to vary from one person to the next, as well. I completely understand how the OP feels, and I commend their courage for facing up to it and taking control of their life back. I know of others, who, due to lifelong health issues, have limited amounts of energy and mobility, and for them, being able to game and participate in guilds with other people is a way to keep the mind engaged and active, instead of vegetating in front of the TV. It's different things for different people.

But what we all need is that someone (or someones) who keep us grounded in the real world.

Davor · September 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

The point is he/she is bringing it to attention. He/she is not seeking help.

Also why do casinos keep saying (or at least in Ontario) gamble reasonably and in your limits? So yes casinos warn us and tell us about gambling addiction.

So since your example is what you use, funny how they do it that would mean since casino's do it, then Zenimax should be able to do it as well. Thank you very much for proving that it should be done.

Also casinos don't let minors play. So you are saying it's ok for Zenimax to prey on minors in this way.

HighKinlady · September 2018

There’s actually a pretty good documentary on YouTube about gaming addiction with MMORPGs .. it’s called AFK . Worth a watch . Unfortunately , people won’t change their habits until they decide for themselves to do it .

Edit : found the actual name of the documentary

Freddycruz89 · September 2018

I agree with @Juju_beans . If you really have an addiction, seek professional help. It is not the Developer's responsibility to manage your personal health and well being.

Everything in moderation. Balance is key to well being.

I am glad OP got it together though. I'm not addicted to ESO (Debatable), but I am addicted to cigarettes and know that "I want to stop but can't" feeling very well.

Juju_beans · September 2018

Davor wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

The point is he/she is bringing it to attention. He/she is not seeking help.

Also why do casinos keep saying (or at least in Ontario) gamble reasonably and in your limits? So yes casinos warn us and tell us about gambling addiction.

So since your example is what you use, funny how they do it that would mean since casino's do it, then Zenimax should be able to do it as well. Thank you very much for proving that it should be done.

Also casinos don't let minors play. So you are saying it's ok for Zenimax to prey on minors in this way.

Oh do casino's physically remove you if you lost too much money ?
OP suggests banning an account if they've played for 20 hours..actually taking action against addictive players.
Do your casinos in Canada do that ?

I would think parents have a job to do if their children are gaming addicts since minors would still be living at home.
Game is rated M in the US.

Caligamy_ESO · September 2018

Davor wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

The point is he/she is bringing it to attention. He/she is not seeking help.

Also why do casinos keep saying (or at least in Ontario) gamble reasonably and in your limits? So yes casinos warn us and tell us about gambling addiction.

So since your example is what you use, funny how they do it that would mean since casino's do it, then Zenimax should be able to do it as well. Thank you very much for proving that it should be done.

Also casinos don't let minors play. So you are saying it's ok for Zenimax to prey on minors in this way.

This made me remember something from my old MMORPG I played heavily years ago, this is what was displayed on screen right before you were able to login to character select.

And it was no joke, that game was severely addicting to many people myself included. I played the damn thing for 14 years before I finally got out of it and ended with a "/playtime" of something like 5~6 years, that's just crazy when you think about how long that is not experiencing life staring at pixels.

I never heard anyone quite explain what it was like so perfectly until I stumbled across this guys video years later describing his experience in the same game.

https://youtu.be/Jfolw_wdBJE

Ragged_Claw · September 2018

I see where you're coming from, but it does come down to personal responsibility. I smoked for almost 30 years and continued despite all the safety warnings that were added to tobacco products, warnings from doctors, seeing friends and family die from smoking related illnesses and so on. I finally gave up because I wanted to, because I was scared of what was happening to my health. So I think even if ZoS were to add warnings or limitations, addictive personalites would completely ignore it anyway.

That doesn't mean I don't think companies DO have some responsibility, of course they do and I'm increasingly concerned about gambling style mechanics in different games, and things like daily log in rewards don't help those with addictive tendencies.

Ultimately it's the same as any other addiction, you have to recognise it and take steps (which I guess you have) in order to get help or at least ameloriate the problem, by (as suggested) setting alarms, agreeing daily limits with yourself. I do understand, truly, if it wasn't for family and work demands, I would never leave my PC and that is not healthy. Let's face it, game companies want you playing all the time, tobacco companies want you to smoke and breweries want you to drink, at the end of the day you can only rely on yourself and hopefully supportive friends and family.

Aebaradath · September 2018

AndrejLeo wrote: »

Can't you just ask them to ban your account lol

You can ask them to terminate it even.

Oakmontowls_ESO · September 2018

Maybe lets wait for the psychologists to agree on it first. They just started researching Internet gaming disorder.

tunepunk · September 2018

It's a serious issue and I'm glad you came to your senses. I've been there in the past with other MMO's, but at the moment I'm more of a casual player. I would probably play more if I could but luckily real life is getting way too busy to even bother.

Started playing ESO when it was new. Back then I was single, freelance graphic designer with lot of free time, and was probably playing more than I should, but things happened.....Found a nice girlfriend, stopped freelancing and moved abroad for a full time job (oddly enough in online gambling) Got married, had a kid, lost a kid, had another one, got promoted, got a new more demanding but satisfying job.

I'm also quite easy to get hooked, but life luckily came in the way. From playing hours a day, and now with a 8 month baby and a wife I'm lucky if I can squeeze in a few hours per week. I Mostly play weekends, an hour here and there when the baby is sleeping.

But still.... at work when I'm not too busy, I still make lists of sets I wanna get, gear I need to upgrade, how much gold I need to farm to gold all the gear, tweaking and planning builds and theory crafting. Addicted? Not really.... but even the few free hours I do have time to play I'm often thinking.... why don't I work on my own game? (developing my own small indie games always been a dream of mine) but still... here I am.

Thanks for the post and the eyeopener. Might as well start working on my own projects and do something creative, and maybe just ...maybe I can squeeze in a hour or two every now and then for leisure. Wish there was a mobile version of ESO so I could get my eso fix while commuting, or taking a dump instead... lol.

vamp_emily · September 2018

@Ectheliontnacil congrats on changing your life for the good. I hope you finish school this time around.

Davor · September 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you have an addiction and you know it and want help to overcome it then you should seek qualified profession medical help.

Expecting a game company to help you overcome a gaming addiction is like expecting a casino to help overcome a gambling addiction.

The point is he/she is bringing it to attention. He/she is not seeking help.

Also why do casinos keep saying (or at least in Ontario) gamble reasonably and in your limits? So yes casinos warn us and tell us about gambling addiction.

So since your example is what you use, funny how they do it that would mean since casino's do it, then Zenimax should be able to do it as well. Thank you very much for proving that it should be done.

Also casinos don't let minors play. So you are saying it's ok for Zenimax to prey on minors in this way.

Oh do casino's physically remove you if you lost too much money ?
OP suggests banning an account if they've played for 20 hours..actually taking action against addictive players.
Do your casinos in Canada do that ?

I would think parents have a job to do if their children are gaming addicts since minors would still be living at home.
Game is rated M in the US.

It was a suggestion. Did he/she say IT HAD TO BE? Even you said it was a suggestion. Again, all he/she is asking if for warnings and reminders.

Also I find it funny the game is rated M but that was before the gambling became a thing if I am not mistaken. Also just like with drinking and smoking, minors get away with it. So if caught it would be who served them. So if kids sneakily play ESO if their parents don't let them, then it's Zenimax who is on the hook. So the rating really means squat.

A store who sells to minors and gets caught gets charged and or fined.

So now Zenimax has to watch about addiction. While they might get away from the playing addiction (just because they don't have to doesn't mean they shouldn't) they can get caught with gambling addiction. Only time will tell and we will see what happens.

Davor · September 2018

Doesn't matter if a company needs to, or should to, or it's one own responsibility, what this does is it can help one person. Maybe this can be the help they needed to start seeking help. People still think they are alone in this when this happens to many people.

So this is a good thing by talking about it and not be shunned or shunning people.

While Zenimax might not do anything about it, at least we as players can try and help our fellow gamers. Because in the end we will never know when we will have that what ever addiction and it's always good to tell people to seek help when they are ready for it.

It's good to let people know they are NOT ALONE.