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A friendly reminder so people stop freaking out...
rafaelcsmaia
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Most people wont remember, but in January last year, we had a change proposing dragon blood to heal based on missing max magicka.
This change was considered insane and DKs raged like crazy.
1 Week later and the devs changed their minds and dragon blood started healing based on max mag and spell, green dragons blood remained healing based on missing health.
What I mean is, CALM DOWN PEOPLE, changes may look stupid, but it may (and should) be tweaked before the PTS cycle.
Cheers/
This change was considered insane and DKs raged like crazy.
1 Week later and the devs changed their minds and dragon blood started healing based on max mag and spell, green dragons blood remained healing based on missing health.
What I mean is, CALM DOWN PEOPLE, changes may look stupid, but it may (and should) be tweaked before the PTS cycle.
Cheers/
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Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.Edited by Judas Helviaryn on September 19, 2018 7:05PM48 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.11 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.
The proposed changes are what are out of hand. Out of order, out of the realm of reasonable thought, out of their minds.34 -
megshere✭✭✭There's voicing your issues in a mature and clear way that will result in you being heard by the devs, and there's voicing your issues much the way a toddler would by yelling and screaming and being unrealistic and unreasonable.
I'm seeing more of the second one. If people want to be taken seriously, they need to think about how they phrase things and not fly off the handle about something that may still change before it hits the live servers.Guild Master at Black Market Wares on the PC NA server.16 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.
That's kind of the point. Excepting physical threats/threats of violence, the other actions the community has taken, while disruptive, are showing ZOS exactly how far they've trashed the quality of the game. People are sick of it, they're tired of the nerf train, the lack of forthcoming information, a standard of communication that their direct competitors have no issue fulfilling, and they're tired of being treated like walking, talking debit cards.
(And the lag, oh god, the lag.)
The only reason people who have played the game to completion (and I don't mean just the main quest) stick around, by majority I suspect, is because they've invested too much in the game to see it thrown in this dumpster fire. Nobody wants to start from scratch on another medium, they believe this game can succeed with the right team and attitude, and they're obviously attempting to work towards that with their criticism and, in some few cases, hysterics.
I'll take it over silently disappearing, like some meek individual.Edited by Judas Helviaryn on September 19, 2018 7:25PM23 -
DorianDragonRaze✭✭✭✭Why should the sorc PTS changes look as *all thoughts that could ever come to mind* after the question about shield counter-play, collected and dumped out without any pondering and filtering?
To see what of the thoughts people would hate the most and then remove certain changes before going live?
How about the community mental health?I used to be an adventurer like you, then I got the ESO on my hard drive...1 -
qbit✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.
That's kind of the point. Excepting physical threats/threats of violence, the other actions the community has taken, while disruptive, are showing ZOS exactly how far they've trashed the quality of the game. People are sick of it, they're tired of the nerf train, the lack of forthcoming information, a standard of communication that their direct competitors have no issue fulfilling, and they're tired of being treated like walking, talking debit cards.
(And the lag, oh god, the lag.)
The only reason people who have played the game to completion (and I don't mean just the main quest) stick around, by majority I suspect, is because they've invested too much in the game to see it thrown in this dumpster fire. Nobody wants to start from scratch on another medium, they believe this game can succeed with the right team and attitude, and they're obviously attempting to work towards that with their criticism and, in some few cases, hysterics.
I'll take it over silently disappearing, like some meek individual.
This exactly. We are aware the changes will probably be reverted. We will not be quiet until they are. The OP is coming from what I consider a naieve point of view. With all respect. ZOS has a history of not reverting changes that hit the PTS. And this change is a fundamental change to gameplay to many classes. It removes much of the fun for casual players that will logon one day soon and literally think the new animation and cast time on shields is a straight up bug. Because they don’t read forums and don’t have UI addons that telegraph cast time on a fancy blue bar that fills up (like I have).
And vet players will struggle with end game PvE content that requires shields to be reactive.
The concerns of the PvP community, I cannot speak to.
It’s a horrible idea and people are being rightfully vocal about it. The cast time. Adding a spamming cost like the ability that shoots you away is fine.
The OP is trying to be contrarian. And I appreciate that. But this is not the time.Edited by qbit on September 19, 2018 7:38PM7 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.
Normal bad ideas warrant normal responses. Extremely bad ideas warrant extreme responses. This idea goes past "extremely bad." I'm not sure a level or response exists that's appropriate to the badness of this idea. I certainly cannot trust any developer bad enough to suggest or approve these changes to take into account any normal level of response.
True, threatening others is never justified, but then, neither is schadenfreude, and we've seen plenty of that in the last couple of days.
I quit for ten months after the game went BTP. I'm not going around making quit posts right now, but then, every patch since Morrowind has included incomprehensible decisions that made the game less fun to play. I can certainly foresee this might be the one that breaks ESO for me. Quit posts may be against the rules, but every patch in the last 1.5 years has made gameplay less fun, and ZOS really does need to learn that several of us are on the precipice, needing just a nudge to make us move on from the game.Edited by MasterSpatula on September 19, 2018 8:04PM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle8 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Remember when stam classes almost had a damage shield based on max stamina?
There are plenty of instances where they nix bad ideas.
Oh! Remember when they almost changed soul assault to be uninterruptible, increased the damage, and negated stealth?
Wait that actually did happen.2 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Most people wont remember, but in January last year, we had a change proposing dragon blood to heal based on missing max magicka.
This change was considered insane and DKs raged like crazy.
1 Week later and the devs changed their minds and dragon blood started healing based on max mag and spell, green dragons blood remained healing based on missing health.
What I mean is, CALM DOWN PEOPLE, changes may look stupid, but it may (and should) be tweaked before the PTS cycle.
Cheers/
Your logic doesn't work here. If people calm down, there will be no outrage to put pressure on ZOS to revert the changes.
You should be telling people to not calm down, if you want the changes reverted.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa9 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
Maybe it won't be changed, but the level of hysteria is so off the charts for what they are changing.
OP is right. Wait and see how much the change really effects you, then if it's so far to a negative spot it could get changed. Stop acting like 2 year olds that didn't get the color sippy cup they wanted cause some how that red cup makes the water taste better than the green with yellow top does.
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AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
Maybe it won't be changed, but the level of hysteria is so off the charts for what they are changing.
OP is right. Wait and see how much the change really effects you, then if it's so far to a negative spot it could get changed. Stop acting like 2 year olds that didn't get the color sippy cup they wanted cause some how that red cup makes the water taste better than the green with yellow top does.
"Wait and see" doesn't exist in PTS patch cycles. ZOS takes too long to implement changes, oftentimes putting them off for a "later major update".
If you don't make your voice heard now, it'll be too late.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa9 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.
The proposed changes are what are out of hand. Out of order, out of the realm of reasonable thought, out of their minds.
This. Its not just the ridiculous shield nerfs, which are flat out laughable.
1) Mag sorc had sustain issues. So they buffed pet sustain.... and actually nerfed non pet. Pet sorcs use a heavy attack build
2) Massive nerfs to medium and light armor compared to heavy armor in pvp.. When the stated design goal was to buff medium and light compared to heavy
3) Nerfs to mag warden pve dps... when they are already very weak.
4) Sorcs ate 4 nerfs this patch. 4 damn nerfs for a class that did not need nerfs at all.
5) Instead of buffing sustain for non nightblades, they nerfed nightblades and did nothing for everyone else.
This patch almost literally does nothing positive for the game. If they threw it in the trash, most players would be ok with it.4 -
Lord_Wrath✭✭✭✭✭I dont know...I remember when shield duration was nerfed to 6s and the forums blew up pretty bad.1300+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Palatine - Grand Master Crafter - 30000 Achievement Points
Launch Player - PC - NA - EP1 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Wrath wrote: »I dont know...I remember when shield duration was nerfed to 6s and the forums blew up pretty bad.
The populace blows up when things that ZOS designed in the first place as "Staples" are gutted. The players didn't design it as something to be invested in, ZOS did. So when an ability or group of Abilities gets gutted we question it.4 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Most people wont remember, but in January last year, we had a change proposing dragon blood to heal based on missing max magicka.
This change was considered insane and DKs raged like crazy.
1 Week later and the devs changed their minds and dragon blood started healing based on max mag and spell, green dragons blood remained healing based on missing health.
What I mean is, CALM DOWN PEOPLE, changes may look stupid, but it may (and should) be tweaked before the PTS cycle.
Cheers/
What would have occurred had the DK's stayed silent... The likely would have been gutted.3 -
Omnia✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »I'll take it over silently disappearing, like some meek individual.
It's not that people are silent and meek and don't want to speak up. It is that they are tired.Edited by Omnia on September 19, 2018 8:43PM8 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
This is true but i think what the OP is trying to say is that people dont need to freak out and leave the game. Just saw a guy, max CP with bohethias scythe title, pretty much giving away all his stuff. Selling it like dirt cheap because he said hes quitting. People just need to take a breath and voice their opinions without doing drastic things they will regret if stuff gets changes.0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When players stop voicing impassioned opinions about truly bad game design, this game is dead. The same can be said when game designers stop listening to players.10 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭MasterSpatula wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »
I understand people need to express, but the poll spam, threatening others and quit posts are out of hand.
Normal bad ideas warrant normal responses. Extremely bad ideas warrant extreme responses. This idea goes past "extremely bad." I'm not sure a level or response exists that's appropriate to the badness of this idea. I certainly cannot trust any developer bad enough to suggest or approve these changes to take into account any normal level of response.
True, threatening others is never justified, but then, neither is schadenfreude, and we've seen plenty of that in the last couple of days.
I quit for ten months after the game went BTP. I'm not going around making quit posts right now, but then, every patch since Morrowind has included incomprehensible decisions that made the game less fun to play. I can certainly foresee this might be the one that breaks ESO for me. Quit posts may be against the rules, but every patch in the last 1.5 years has made gameplay less fun, and ZOS really does need to learn that several of us are on the precipice, needing just a nudge to make us move on from the game.
Someone should do a poll on fun.
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Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
Maybe it won't be changed, but the level of hysteria is so off the charts for what they are changing.
OP is right. Wait and see how much the change really effects you, then if it's so far to a negative spot it could get changed. Stop acting like 2 year olds that didn't get the color sippy cup they wanted cause some how that red cup makes the water taste better than the green with yellow top does.
For the record, red does make the water taste better.
It's a well-known fact.
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Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
Isn't there a pts forum though ? And shouldn't people actually try out the new build before saying the class is "dead" ?
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can't wait to see what happens if they ever take out animation cancelling lol0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »If people don't voice their issues now, it won't be reverted in the next patch.
Complacency is what gets us stuck in situations like this, and worse situations IRL. I believe recent history has very poignantly taught us this.
Either way, with how ZOS operates, I'm not convinced anything will be reverted, regardless of the player reaction.
Maybe it won't be changed, but the level of hysteria is so off the charts for what they are changing.
OP is right. Wait and see how much the change really effects you, then if it's so far to a negative spot it could get changed. Stop acting like 2 year olds that didn't get the color sippy cup they wanted cause some how that red cup makes the water taste better than the green with yellow top does.
"Wait and see" doesn't exist in PTS patch cycles. ZOS takes too long to implement changes, oftentimes putting them off for a "later major update".
If you don't make your voice heard now, it'll be too late.
Sure, but I guess my point was the changes are never as bad as every one thinks they are going to be. People will adjust. Also we don't know what future changes are in store. They probably have changes laid out for the next 2-3 patches at least. This might just be the first one, and then the next patch nerfs something that makes this not seem so bad.
So in the big picture if you aren't essentially invincible for a couple months or something is it really that big of a deal after Magsorcs have been top since when?1 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »I'll take it over silently disappearing, like some meek individual.
It's not that people are silent and meek and don't want to speak up. It is that they are tired.
and then some.
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bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Wrath wrote: »I dont know...I remember when shield duration was nerfed to 6s and the forums blew up pretty bad.
Yes they did and its taken over year to get them back to 9 sec. It was a bad idea then and bad idea now2 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭i think there are 2 options here to show the devs our opinion
1) be vocal, be loud and hope that they don't break your fun from the game. it is a game after all which means fun and
entertainment not masochism and unpleasure.
2)remain silent while unsub/uninstall because you have no more trust in devs and no hope for things can get any better.
but this is not healthy for the game we love so much so i prefer first option.Edited by Darkenarlol on September 19, 2018 11:27PM5 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭The funny thing is I made a thread called the pts scam two patches ago and the majority of people said I’m stupid for using the wrong terminology of scam. I explained that every pts that’s been out, the threads that come along mean nothing. No major changes will come about in a pts, only bug reports lol. It’s really sad though because Zos has made the illusion of if you want changes then you should voice your opinion on the pts and forums.Edited by zParallaxz on September 19, 2018 11:37PM2
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Revokus✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Most people wont remember, but in January last year, we had a change proposing dragon blood to heal based on missing max magicka.
This change was considered insane and DKs raged like crazy.
1 Week later and the devs changed their minds and dragon blood started healing based on max mag and spell, green dragons blood remained healing based on missing health.
What I mean is, CALM DOWN PEOPLE, changes may look stupid, but it may (and should) be tweaked before the PTS cycle.
Cheers/
Doesn’t matter they keep doing this and people are getting tired of it they do too much random stuff and clearly they don’t know what they are doing. I’m glad people are quitting maybe it will show them. To be honest after 4 years you have to begin doing fan service like a certain popular mmo. Add necromancer, add stam whip etc . Add what people have been asking for years when you know it’s not going to break the game. And for god sake stop nerfing classes ! They are all shadows of what they were.. nerf cp instead. I think they are too stuborn and changing things people never asked for will be their downfall.Edited by Revokus on September 19, 2018 11:38PMPlaying since January 23, 20160 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkenarlol wrote: »i think there are 2 options here to show the devs our opinion
1) be vocal, be loud and hope that they don't break your fun from the game. it is a game after all which means fun and
entertainment not masochism and unpleasure.
2)remain silent while unsub/uninstall because you have no more trust in devs and no hope for things can get any better.
but this is not healthy for the game we love so much so i prefer first option.
I also think player feedback is important.
So shouldn't all these posters be running on the pts and posting on that forum with some hard numbers ?
That's feedback.
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This discussion has been closed.