The Problem With All Patch Notes

ol_BANK_lo · September 2018

The single biggest problem with all Patch Notes put out by ZOS is that ZOS doesn't give a preamble about exactly what they are trying to achieve, what underlying concerns they have. The little spoiler sections don't really cut it. I still believe they way over react to problems and often times over nerf things to compensate, or don't balance at all. But, if they started out with a summary explaining what problems they see, what feedback they've gotten, what concerns they are trying to address in the big picture, it might help reduce the explosion of forum posts berating their decisions. What we usually get is either nothing, or a little tidbit during a live stream saying "they're looking into" something...and then we get these massive changes.

I would like to suggest to ZOS to give some pretext of what concerns they were trying to address. Each patch feels like an overreaction by ZOS to concerns expressed by the public or major changes in areas that no one complained about (which is even more frustrating).

Just a suggestion.

MaleAmazon · September 2018

I'd say you are wrong.

Personally I think the dev notes do a good job of explaining things. And they do give overarching notes like 'we want all classes to be able to fulfill all roles' and 'light attack should deal damage while heavy attack focuses on resource restore'.

But where I think you are wrong is in thinking it would reduce the forum complaints. That's not how it works; some people will complain loudly that "their" (somewhat silly concept to begin with) class got the shaft. No matter what. No amount of explaining will work here, because these people aren't looking for one.

idk · September 2018

Zos does a decent job trying to explain themselves though far from perfect. If you actually read the patch notes your see hidden spoilers about why they’re making the change. While it may not fit the format you want that’s pretty irrelevant.

ol_BANK_lo · September 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I'd say you are wrong.

Personally I think the dev notes do a good job of explaining things. And they do give overarching notes like 'we want all classes to be able to fulfill all roles' and 'light attack should deal damage while heavy attack focuses on resource restore'.

But where I think you are wrong is in thinking it would reduce the forum complaints. That's not how it works; some people will complain loudly that "their" (somewhat silly concept to begin with) class got the shaft. No matter what. No amount of explaining will work here, because these people aren't looking for one.

There may be people who will complain no matter what, but there are a lot posts with assumptions about why something is done...endless debates about what it accomplishes. People clearly are not informed. And there are some, likely me included, would rather debate knowing all of the underlying facts about decisions. I don't think "we want all classes to be able to fulfill all roles" remotely covers the depth of the changes made each patch.

Just my opinion.

Zathras · September 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I'd say you are wrong.

That's not how it works; some people will complain loudly that "their" (somewhat silly concept to begin with) class got the shaft. No matter what. No amount of explaining will work here, because these people aren't looking for one.

But there is also the matter of the apologists, and defenders.

I'm not a fan of the Father Knows Best mentality: that the devs, no matter what change they make, are always right. They are people too, not omniscient higher beings. People make mistakes.

If a change is brewing, it needs to be reviewed by the community. Hence, the PTS. If they wanted zero feedback, and no changes, then updates would go Live and the forums would be taken offline so no one could comment. The PTS exists so the community can take the proposed changes through the paces, and see if theory meshes with reality.

So, when a massive community uproar erupts over a proposed change on the PTS, they should take note. That is the system they built just for that reason: to listen, and make adjustments if their theory didn't work as planned.

ol_BANK_lo · September 2018

idk wrote: »

Zos does a decent job trying to explain themselves though far from perfect. If you actually read the patch notes your see hidden spoilers about why they’re making the change. While it may not fit the format you want that’s pretty irrelevant.

I mentioned the spoilers in my post. But often times people come away with more questions than answers with those. I just feel they could give a larger picture preamble about their approach to a patch. So often people come away scratching their heads with balance changes, or debate reasons that they don't even understand. Yes, some spoilers are good. Some are not...but I am mostly focused on the big picture they had in mind going into an update. They tend to change things no one was complaining about.

Turelus · September 2018

I agree somewhat, the dev comments give us some information but generally we do seem to lack information on their overall end goal or objectives with balance for a patch.

We had the combat updates previously which have now somewhat become to the class rep threads, I would still personally love to have Wrobel or Rich take some time to write a forums post or dev blog which gives an overview of ZOS' goals with combat design, so when a big change happens it doesn't strike from out of nowhere.

Tommy_The_Gun · September 2018

OP is right about that. For me the short "spoiler" notes (Developer Comment) are generaly too short, too general & often it is unclear what they are trying to achieve.
It often feels like a poor excuse or justification of nerfing / changing something that was unnecessary...

MaleAmazon · September 2018

Well, they might not really have an end goal. But (playing the devil's advocate here) sorry - no dice this time. There have been plenty of complaints, imo mostly valid, that it has been a problem that certain classes like the one that rhymes with but isn't played by orcs can use one and the same resource pool to increase their damage AND defense. And seeing someone with 20 k hp increased to 50 k bunnyhopping around is annoying. ZOS acknowledged this and wrote down, EXACTLY, their reasoning in patch notes that aren't even final. And still 60% of the forum is tantrum threads.

No, I dont think it would help much.

Apache_Kid · September 2018

The developer comments are never on the things i actually want to see them on.

The developer comments usually are on a change where i think to myself "Ok I can see where they were going without even reading the dev comment"

But then when i come across something so truly mind-bogglingly stupid that i truly cannot discern a possible reason for the change, there is no comment. Probably because deep down they too know it's stupid.

Zathras · September 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

The developer comments are never on the things i actually want to see them on.

The developer comments usually are on a change where i think to myself "Ok I can see where they were going without even reading the dev comment"

But then when i come across something so truly mind-bogglingly stupid that i truly cannot discern a possible reason for the change, there is no comment. Probably because deep down they too know it's stupid.

Like the 30% Warden bear nerf?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobbel Please explain why a 30% nerf did not require a dev comment.

Apache_Kid · September 2018

Zathras wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

The developer comments are never on the things i actually want to see them on.

The developer comments usually are on a change where i think to myself "Ok I can see where they were going without even reading the dev comment"

But then when i come across something so truly mind-bogglingly stupid that i truly cannot discern a possible reason for the change, there is no comment. Probably because deep down they too know it's stupid.

Like the 30% Warden bear nerf?

Yes. Precisely my point lol. Spot on