With the outrage on recent change it is apparent that people have serious problems adapting.

Maryal · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Let me start by saying I'm sorry for PvE players. I know this hurts you all too and I wish there was a workaround to this. Much of this topic is focused on PvP, so let's see if ZOS can fix the PvE for you.

Or have their hands held.

I am one of the frequent complainers on the forums, yes. I fully admit to that because I'm not a delusional whiny zergling. However, I post complain topics in an effort to seek guidance, and help and learn how to better myself, how to become a good player. I don't complain to push nerfs, unless things promote braindead design.

It's only been a couple of hours and I already see people complaining about the changes to shield and evasion.... becase why? Because you can't just stand somewhere and take the pressure anymore? Because you're forced to actually pay attention and utilize others skills in order to outplay your opponent?

Let's take our sorcs here... You have various tools. You can use streak to get away to recast your shields. You can CC to recast your shields. All of you use swift now just like any stamina class does. Streak away for cover to recast your shield? Actually and truly outplay your opponent instead of waiting for your ultimate combo in the same spot abusing recovery sets like Engine Guardian*** so you cannot be stam starved in Immobilize/CC? Stamina poisons got a giant nerf in their numerical values too. So that plays more into your "crippled cards" already. 20% compared to 60% is a lot.

Oh but wahh wahh, we streak we get gap closed. No you don't you CC, Streak, Reposition/Los - Recast your shield. You are ranged classes, you're not supposed to be on the front line with warriors all the time tanking more than them. Get over it.

To all the NB whiners about Major Evasion... Same deal. You just want your hands held? You want some sort of chance to save your life instead of focusing on how to outplay your opponent? Instead of keeping track of what's happening on the screen? You want to avoid having to reposition/Los/escapeing combat as much as you have until now while dealing bazillion damage and only take off when something actually somehow miraculously manages to hit you? No. No more 100% damage mitigation as a random chance (which sometimes can happen 4 times in a row - yeah not fun). Just learn to play, utilize shade, there are so many NBs that dont even slot cloak and just use shade. I've seen it, I've done it myself. Invest more into dodge cost reduction. Invest more into recovery. Build around it, cause you CAN. You MF-in CAN. I refused that fact myself for a LONG TIME.

The moment i started building around my weaknesses like an intelligent player, instead of a zergling, i started doing better. While still at least a year to learn the game like a pro ahead of me, I've accepted how the game works, and got at least 10 times better.

Yeah btw i'm both a Sorc and a NB main.

New Evasion buff offers you a great tool at your disposal for both PVP and PVE btw. Ever heard of steel tornado? Yeah it hits like a wet noodle now if you're not stupid with it. Other AoEs? Same deal. They all hit really low. Ever see all those bosses in trials do 1348903892139 damage to your NB tank from AOES? Well it sucks they took something unique from a NB tank, but guess what it only affects occasional crushing hits that are completely avoidable. Not to mention we're still unique, we are what we are. We're siphoners, we're blood mages. Get that recovery to 8k and build your NB tank properly.

Oh but wahh wahh, noone will take a NB tank like that. Switch your guilds then. Find new friends.

*** Engine Guardian
(1 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(2 items) When you use an ability, you have a 10% chance to summon a dwemer automation to restore 1162 Health, Stamina, or Magicka every 0.5 seconds for 6.5 seconds.
(2 items - hidden) Acts as a meat shield.

The only thing I'm personally sceptical about currently is how much will the critical damage through shields affect the sorc's squishiness in the long run. It's a good step, but it might be too harsh without number adjustments. That's why we have the PTS. To test this change. So shut up, sit down, and wait. And keep learning.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that the recent nerfs that also affect other magicka classes are honestly unfortunate. Sorcs could've been balanced differently but this is the path ZOS chooses. As i said, let's wait further for upcoming PTS changes. This is only the first day.

EDIT2: Grammar.

EDIT3: Just so all of you here know. I do not 100% agree with the cast time addition. I feel like that part was unnecessary. But i feel like ZOS is anticipating everyone wearing Impregnable heavy now, so there must have been something else added. It could've been done differently, but this is the path ZOS chose, so let's wait for the last week of PTS first. Meanwhile, what i said above.

Your overall tone is so sad, you cry so much that, here -> 'hands you a tissue'. We live in a world where adaptability = survivability, so wipe those tears and put on a brave face.

Bakkagami · September 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Bakkagami wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Or have their hands held.

I am one of the frequent complainers on the forums, yes. I fully admit to that because I'm not a delusional whiny zergling. However, I post complain topics in an effort to seek guidance, and help and learn how to better myself, how to become a good player. I don't complain to push nerfs, unless things promote braindead design.

It's only been a couple of hours and I already see people complaining about the changes to shield and evasion.... becase why? Because you can't just stand somewhere and take the pressure anymore? Because you're forced to actually pay attention and utilize others skills in order to outplay your opponent?

Let's take our sorcs here... You have various tools. You can use streak to get away to recast your shields. You can CC to recast your shields. All of you use swift now just like any stamina class does. Streak away for cover to recast your shield? Actually and truly outplay your opponent instead of waiting for your ultimate combo in the same spot abusing recovery sets like Engine Guardian*** so you cannot be stam starved in Immobilize/CC? Stamina poisons got a giant nerf in their numerical values too. So that plays more into your "crippled cards" already. 20% compared to 60% is a lot.

Oh but wahh wahh, we streak we get gap closed. No you don't you CC, Streak, Reposition/Los - Recast your shield. You are ranged classes, you're not supposed to be on the front line with warriors all the time tanking more than them. Get over it.

To all the NB whiners about Major Evasion... Same deal. You just want your hands held? You want some sort of chance to save your life instead of focusing on how to outplay your opponent? Instead of keeping track of what's happening on the screen? You want to avoid having to reposition/Los/escapeing combat as much as you have until now while dealing bazillion damage and only take off when something actually somehow miraculously manages to hit you? No. No more 100% damage mitigation as a random chance (which sometimes can happen 4 times in a row - yeah not fun). Just learn to play, utilize shade, there are so many NBs that dont even slot cloak and just use shade. I've seen it, I've done it myself. Invest more into dodge cost reduction. Invest more into recovery. Build around it, cause you CAN. You MF-in CAN. I refused that fact myself for a LONG TIME.

The moment i started building around my weaknesses like an intelligent player, instead of a zergling, i started doing better. While still at least a year to learn the game like a pro ahead of me, I've accepted how the game works, and got at least 10 times better.

Yeah btw i'm both a Sorc and a NB main.

New Evasion buff offers you a great tool at your disposal for both PVP and PVE btw. Ever heard of steel tornado? Yeah it hits like a wet noodle now if you're not stupid with it. Other AoEs? Same deal. They all hit really low. Ever see all those bosses in trials do 1348903892139 damage to your NB tank from AOES? Well it sucks they took something unique from a NB tank, but guess what it only affects occasional crushing hits that are completely avoidable. Not to mention we're still unique, we are what we are. We're siphoners, we're blood mages. Get that recovery to 8k and build your NB tank properly.

Oh but wahh wahh, noone will take a NB tank like that. Switch your guilds then. Find new friends.

*** Engine Guardian
(1 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery
(2 items) When you use an ability, you have a 10% chance to summon a dwemer automation to restore 1162 Health, Stamina, or Magicka every 0.5 seconds for 6.5 seconds.
(2 items - hidden) Acts as a meat shield.

The only thing I'm personally sceptical about currently is how much will the critical damage through shields affect the sorc's squishiness in the long run. It's a good step, but it might be too harsh without number adjustments. That's why we have the PTS. To test this change. So shut up, sit down, and wait. And keep learning.

EDIT: Grammar.

You do realize that most sorcs are not tanking players out of choice. They are doing it because stam players will always be faster than them and with limited stamina and overwhelming CCs and roots, it really is difficult to just streak away. And you suggestion to just stun. lol. Good luck landing a stun that can be dodged. Or one that takes 1.5 seconds to even work. In your suggestion this is a typical one on one engagement:

Stamblade: Incap+light attack from cloak on an unshielded mag sorc.

Mag Sorc: Cast Shield.

Stamblade: Bash+Surprise attack

Mag Sorc: Dead.

And if the mag sorc tries to stun and streak away instead of shield the bleed from the light attack that is ticking while you try to run away without a shield kills you. And if the bleed doesn't kill you, the stamblade just dodged your 1.5 second delayed stun and then that stamblade just gap closes you repeatedly until you are out of magicka or dead.

You can streak while rooted or snared so it counter the counter to mobility. Noone is dodging a point blank destro reach without passive dodge chance anymore. You can still use the other morph of rune to cc someone pressuring u.

Most magsorcs aren't gaining distance now because they simply don't NEED to in the current iteration when it negates crit damage and can be instantly reapplies essentially continuously refilling an extra 15k+ health bar, making shield stacking a better use of time and resources than gaining distance. Not to mention that with the previous interrupt changes once you get cc immunity you cannot be bashed again for 6 seconds. so relocating and applying shields can be done during that time.

The basis for the qqing is basically basically like op said, a desire to be spoon fed. Your a damage oriented light armor setup, essentially a glass cannon. The fact that u can build to glass cannon and higher resistance builds have to rely more on LOS than a LA sorc was ridiculous.

Each class has ways mitigate damage or otherwise recover. sorc streak into wards (since they specialize in wards), nb shade/cloak, templar burst healing, dk cc/heals, warden healing (yea warden is still the worst off lol). The difference between now and before is wards will have to take a bit strategic gameplay to use properly. Also, for an emergency, healing ward is still an effective "oh crap" ward.

Totally clueless post.

I've played a proper glass cannon in other games (including Warhammer Online, WoW and GW2): they were glass cannons and 2 shot people.

Now, even gearing with PvE trial gear, I can crit opponents for ... 6.5k. YEAH REALLY CANNON for this glass!

If you're only critting people for 6.5k you're doing something wrong. even when not spec'd to damage crits will do that much. speccing to full damage and your spammables might crit for 6.5k, ults are critting 9k+ on average with 11k+ on other damage oriented setups.

I've played gw2, funny thing. You don't see an ele spec'd to full damage be able to survive for significant amounts of time under pressure. The difference between GW2 combat and ESO is GW2 has a much better implementation of tradeoffs between spec decisions. This update as well as some of the recent changes are pushing ESO in that direction, which is good for creating both actual balance, not this "everyone needs to be able to do everything" balance that forums love to push.

DanteYoda · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

So much hate and inconsideration for the dev's work within the first 3 hours, it's honestly sad.

You really think these are great changes and a job well done?

Apart from the PvE aspect which hurts strictly PvE players unfairly yes. Yes I do, a step in the right direction at least. I'm not saying leave it this way and go live. Yet again, I'm repeating myself, this is day 1. And people freak out.

What sucks is how it also affects other mag classes. Which was undeserved. Also, as I stated in OP, the crittable shields on top of everything is what I'm worried about. There might have to be number adjustments if they add 1 sec cast time.

Especially cause of us nightblades. A true glasscannon ganker can build for nearly double damage crits and that's impossible to defend against. And it's a super easy spoonfeeding/hand holding way to build a NB too. Just so you know, I'm not a 1 shot NB gank fan either. Or have you forgotten that I was a brawler, trying to play a NB like a DK?

All in all, it would've been fine if shields were simply just made crittable. The cast time was unnccesary. I was trying to give people an idea on how to change the playstyle while this change is BEING TESTED. Hence why the last sentence was added.

@Feanor

You do realise PvE customers are the majority right.. And the one who mostly use ESO+ and Crown store..

Juju_beans · September 2018

haelene wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Think that's any mmo, right? The constant grind for gear due to changes good or bad

Not constant, no. I'm pretty sure no MMO out there changes as fast as ESO. In fact, I think they might have a running in setting a record for the most amount of content released in 4 years in one franchise. It's actually quite much.

wow..every expac since wotlk totally changed up skills, talents, etc where you had to start all over again.
The developers never seemed happy with what they implemented and it got reinvented every expac.

zaria · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

i'll be honest...at times I tend to view these constant game mechanic changes from a purely pvp perspective...

I do participate in vet 1 pledge dungeons - but, that's a far cry from pve end game...

yeah, you all are getting hosed...

I'm sorry this change hurts PvE. I am not okay with that either. @geonsocal

This, vet banish cell 1 final boss is an obvious one you want an shield then the boss does his random one shot, that one is also an bit hard to predict.
I mostly heal on magic build I tend to have shields so I can rez under fire, with fake tank that has been useful even in normals but this is an more predictable setting.

Kuramas9tails · September 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Jinchuu wrote: »

^Now swap in a magden instead of magsorc and see how you're in an even worse spot, at least the sorc has a miniscule chance of swinging the fight whereas the magden just gets bent over.

One difference. BURST HEALS ON DEMAND.

Wait what? Mageblades have burst healing?! OMG!

Joy_Division · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

[

At least that's from my observations @Feanor. Forgive me for not actually meeting any magsorcs that made me go wow, this guy knows how to play. I know every other community has tons of players I bowed to and said GF.

Which do you think is more likely: Every single good player in the history of ESO just happened not to choose to play a sorcerer or you are biased in your judgments of sorcerers?

Jinchuu · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Which do you think is more likely: Every single good player in the history of ESO just happened not to choose to play a sorcerer or you are biased in your judgments of sorcerers?

He didn't even know how Cloak worked so I have no idea why he's here trying to pass himself off as a superior player to anyone. A skeever probably has a better chance of killing you than he does.

Valrien · September 2018

It's okay guys. OP has never really known how to play this game.

Nyladreas · September 2018

Jinchuu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Which do you think is more likely: Every single good player in the history of ESO just happened not to choose to play a sorcerer or you are biased in your judgments of sorcerers?

He didn't even know how Cloak worked so I have no idea why he's here trying to pass himself off as a superior player to anyone. A skeever probably has a better chance of killing you than he does.

Valrien wrote: »

It's okay guys. OP has never really known how to play this game.

Because I finally figured out how to play and realised i was simply just using cloak wrong? It takes time to learn the game doesn't it? And I'm not afraid to admit it? Unlike some players who think they were born gaming gods? Don't act like you were #1 on day 1 plox.

Also yes, I have never met a sorc that wouldn't just stand in place spamming shields and waiting for burst. It never felt interesting, it never felt like I had to think while fighting a sorc. If anything when they start runnin low on resources they just try to streak away and reset the combat.

Immobilize + Stam Drain Poison + CC on hit while cheesy, made quick work of them every single time.

Also if you guys read all of what I've written you'd see that I'm not okay with the changes 100%. Yet you keep finding a target (me) to jab and stab, cause OUR toys got broken. I main a sorc too. It's almost insane how people here turn against each other so quickly. It hurts my shiny toy too you know, but I've already figured out a workaround on PTS yesteday, playing for 12 hours straight. While not perfect, it works. What have you guys done except jumping from thread to thread complaining?

Humanity is indeed screwed.

ZOS are the ones you guys want to be mad at, and the majority of our community that only builds for survivability, which results in braindead gameplay. Not me, even though ZOS already have tools in the game to help you.

Do you honestly think such changes are based on a simple idea? These developers have years of experience in gaming design. Also that's why we have PTS. The fact that there is such disconnection between devs and the community speaks values. And I'm afraid the fault is on our side. Not theirs.

EDIT: The real problem here right now is also Soldier of Anguish set. That will be everyone's killer. And only a couple people seem to pay any attention to that.

Drakkdjinn · September 2018

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Sounds like OP never plays BGs if that's what he thinks. Sorc is dead if these patch notes go live. Also our class CC is getting nerfed AGAIN so there's that too...

Yeah no CP willl prove to be much difficult, these changes are more in favour of CP. I can see where everyone bringing BGs is coming from.

if shields are op devs shouldve just nerfed the bastion star. in non cp shields were too weak already and now they are completely useless

Shields are not, nor have never been weak in no-cp; people who say that just don't know how to do anything but spam them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xeerK03Qp8

lagrue · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Jinchuu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Which do you think is more likely: Every single good player in the history of ESO just happened not to choose to play a sorcerer or you are biased in your judgments of sorcerers?

He didn't even know how Cloak worked so I have no idea why he's here trying to pass himself off as a superior player to anyone. A skeever probably has a better chance of killing you than he does.

Valrien wrote: »

It's okay guys. OP has never really known how to play this game.

Also yes, I have never met a sorc that wouldn't just stand in place spamming shields and waiting for burst.

Hi, nice to meet you - I'm lagrue, I run a MagSorc with no damage shields at all. Once again, nice to meet you.

Nyladreas wrote: »

Jinchuu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Which do you think is more likely: Every single good player in the history of ESO just happened not to choose to play a sorcerer or you are biased in your judgments of sorcerers?

He didn't even know how Cloak worked so I have no idea why he's here trying to pass himself off as a superior player to anyone. A skeever probably has a better chance of killing you than he does.

Valrien wrote: »

It's okay guys. OP has never really known how to play this game.

Yet you keep finding a target (me) to jab and stab, cause OUR toys got broken. .

I'm fairly certain you did this to yourself the moment you made a bait-tier thread trying to actively encourage and incite rage. I mean when you accuse people of wanting to be spoonfed - do you really expect a positive reaction and general acceptance of your ideas? If anything you sold them on the exact opposite. Nobody is going to take you or your ideas/comments seriously if your opening statement is that anybody with grievances needs to be spoonfed.

Nyladreas · September 2018

lagrue wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Jinchuu wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Which do you think is more likely: Every single good player in the history of ESO just happened not to choose to play a sorcerer or you are biased in your judgments of sorcerers?

He didn't even know how Cloak worked so I have no idea why he's here trying to pass himself off as a superior player to anyone. A skeever probably has a better chance of killing you than he does.

Valrien wrote: »

It's okay guys. OP has never really known how to play this game.

Also yes, I have never met a sorc that wouldn't just stand in place spamming shields and waiting for burst.

Hi, nice to meet you - I'm lagrue, I run a MagSorc with no damage shields at all. Once again, nice to meet you.

Good, finally someone else as well. Nice to meet you, I'm very happy to see someone who doesn't feel limited in options, and who can actually build around things. People like you are the real MvPs. People who experiment and find different ways to play sorcs without a handicap.

See everybody? This guy figured it out, just like me after 12 hours on PTS yesterday. Thanks for posting @lagrue

And I bet you could totally incorporate shields into your build as well if you could, right? If you absolutely wanted to.

lagrue · September 2018

-snip double posted-

Nyladreas · September 2018

lagrue wrote: »

-snip double posted-

I mean that's true, I can totally see that now. All that for trying to make people calm down, and find a workaround while testing is being done on PTS. All that for trying to make people stop from creating 89532952598298 topics on the shield nerf.

Even me stating that I'm not 100% okay with it and suggesting making shields stronger and longer due to shields reacting to criticals nows made people hate me.

I just ask myself why do I even bother when everyone always assumes we're all here to attack each other like monkeys... Actually even monkeys are smarter. @lagrue

I do admit that the title probably wasn't the best choice for this topic, but honestly I don't know what to think anymore. First 3 hours of the update and people freak out like it's the end of the world, even though there are ways to play differently... I just don't know anymore man.

Have an Agree from me.

Nyladreas · September 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

So much hate and inconsideration for the dev's work within the first 3 hours, it's honestly sad.

You really think these are great changes and a job well done?

Apart from the PvE aspect which hurts strictly PvE players unfairly yes. Yes I do, a step in the right direction at least. I'm not saying leave it this way and go live. Yet again, I'm repeating myself, this is day 1. And people freak out.

What sucks is how it also affects other mag classes. Which was undeserved. Also, as I stated in OP, the crittable shields on top of everything is what I'm worried about. There might have to be number adjustments if they add 1 sec cast time.

Especially cause of us nightblades. A true glasscannon ganker can build for nearly double damage crits and that's impossible to defend against. And it's a super easy spoonfeeding/hand holding way to build a NB too. Just so you know, I'm not a 1 shot NB gank fan either. Or have you forgotten that I was a brawler, trying to play a NB like a DK?

All in all, it would've been fine if shields were simply just made crittable. The cast time was unnccesary. I was trying to give people an idea on how to change the playstyle while this change is BEING TESTED. Hence why the last sentence was added.

@Feanor

You do realise PvE customers are the majority right.. And the one who mostly use ESO+ and Crown store..

I literally said Apart from PvE players who were hurt unfairly...

Mintaka5 · September 2018

It's pretty hard to adapt to stupid.

Wait...ZOS wants us to devolve?

Agenericname · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

-snip double posted-

I mean that's true, I can totally see that now. All that for trying to make people calm down, and find a workaround while testing is being done on PTS. All that for trying to make people stop from creating 89532952598298 topics on the shield nerf.

Even me stating that I'm not 100% okay with it and suggesting making shields stronger and longer due to shields reacting to criticals nows made people hate me.

I just ask myself why do I even bother when everyone always assumes we're all here to attack each other like monkeys... Actually even monkeys are smarter. @lagrue

I do admit that the title probably wasn't the best choice for this topic, but honestly I don't know what to think anymore. First 3 hours of the update and people freak out like it's the end of the world, even though there are ways to play differently... I just don't know anymore man.

Have an Agree from me.

And here we are, in another thread about it...of your making.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2018

I think you’re entitled to your opinion but you’re making a huge assumption.

Displeasure with the series of changes aren’t a sign of people being adverse to change.

Illogical changes as a result of years of ongoing feedback and developer responses when it results in misaligned changes. Changes that don’t follow prior communication is what’s going on here.