Is it time to disband the class rep system?

acw37162 · September 2018

Troll Thread title with Constructive feedback only in the narrative, Ok.....

No some of the best changes in this patch were brought about because of the dedicated (free) hard work of a small amount of people.

Most of the participants are constructive and have built a solid community reputation and because of their care and consideration to not echo chamber like lemmings on the idiots have direct access to the developers.

Both of these are positives, the forums are not,

A better thread title would be;

is it time to disband the internet - constructive comments only

generalmyrick · September 2018

I dont like stam play...i find it boring and clunky.

If the shield nerf pushes me that way...ill pray.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Shields have been over-performing for ages. When the only necessary advice to mag builds is, "keep your shields up," you should have known, "wait, something's not right here." But, no, addressing that, so that Mag and Stam players both need to deal with mechanics, is clearly going to kill the game.

How are magicka classes supposed to deal with mechanics without shields? It was their only damage mitigation skill.

Magicka toons can't actively block and dodge (since those actions consume stamina), they needed to be able to spam shields instead (since shields consume magicka).

Yes, shields were much better than block/dodge, but now magicka classes don't have a single skill for damage mitigation. Rather than gutting shields, ZOS should have buffed stamina survivability.

max_only · September 2018

I think the class reps are doing a good job. If you have ever participated in a PTS cycle you would know that Zos will do what they want regardless of any reasonable concerns.

The reps collect the information from all of us, they notice trends and then they respond to the the things Zos does with a unified voice for the rest of us. They were never intended to be game designers or influencers.

haelene · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

I think the class reps are doing a good job. If you have ever participated in a PTS cycle you would know that Zos will do what they want regardless of any reasonable concerns.

The reps collect the information from all of us, they notice trends and then they respond to the the things Zos does with a unified voice for the rest of us. They were never intended to be game designers or influencers.

I don't think the point isn't that they should be designers or that they've done a bad job. On the contrary, they've done great! The point is that they are useless because zos isn't going to listen anyways, so they should do away with the pretense.

Gythral · September 2018

Clearly the answer is yes or they could just move the actual problem to another game... (you know who it is & it aint a class rep)

The system has no merit given that it is not being used to 'balance' anything but to nerf the hell out of everything for the benefit of tiny minorities (or just not being listened to at all)

ZOS needs to revert all the changes and rethink the whole concept, and then any changes need to be for the benefit of the vast majority of players & done very slowly

ccfeeling · September 2018

Its not their fault, Zos combat team never listen

Diora · September 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Well, if ZOS wants to ruin the fun in their game for a sizable portion of the playerbase, their sales are going to tank.

No, for the same reason that the sustain changes in Morrowind didn't change the game's overall trajectory, the same reason the block changes in Dragon Bones didn't cause every tank to leave the game, and the same reason that the sorc changes with Wolf Hunter didn't kill the game.

Because new players don't know. They won't notice. No matter how much a handful of veteran players, with a myopic view of their own performance in isolation of the rest of the game, whine and cry, this is good for the game. New players won't have to deal with the same bull**** we did to get here. That's good.

It may not seem like it, especially as content is getting more difficult, but here we are. Plan ahead, shield before he hit. You have more time to use your shield before you need another one. That hurt your DPS? So what?

New players won't know? new players who try to complete vMA for the first time without shields? HAHAHAHA. Trust me, they'll know.

and how the hell do you "shield before you get hit" in vMA? you're getting hit constantly, by stuff that goes thru light armor like paper.

ZOS, if you do this, how about giving us some really nice dropped heavy armor mag sets?

gepe87 · September 2018

I'm sure that class reps did what they know at their best: to play the game. Shame on ZOS who forgot all advices from talented players, instead made random changes without thinking the whole process of being in a gane for years. This is not neither balance nor stability. You force players to adapt, some heavily, each 3 months.

swirve · September 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Lyss1991 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lyss1991 wrote: »

Whats the point of it when we get crap like this current pts patch?

An overall improvement to gameplay that goes beyond, just following the direction of players who spam magicka harness to bypass mechanics and difficulty, then pat themselves on the back for how elite they are.

1 - I dont use Harness Magicka, I use Hardened Ward.

I'm not sure, "I'm not over-performing, I'm a sorc," is really the best defense here.

Lyss1991 wrote: »

2 - I definitely dont do it to “skip mechanics.” I pull my weight in every fight I participate in. Wearing light armor and fighting bosses that can put out hits over 40k, I need something to protect myself with. That shield was it. Have you ever done vHRC? That last bosses lightning phase aint no joke. If you arent paying attention, BOOM. DEAD. Now that shields have a cast time, If you dont hit it prior to his lightning going off, You dont stand a chance. Thats just one example.

Please dont sit here and talk to me like im some noob who doesnt know my character.

I run stam characters in endgame. Don't tell me how necessary shields are to clear trials.

Lyss1991 wrote: »

PVP’s problems shouldnt carry over to PVE. PERIOD. Whatever is messed up on that side of things has nothing to do with those of us who rarely go over there.

Agreed. But this wasn't a PvP issue. It was PvE. When there is literally only one solution to every problem, something's not quite right.

Lyss1991 wrote: »

Also, I dont consider myself “elite.” Im as average as they come. I just know when im being screwed with, Thats all.

Congrats for you. If you're running vHRC, you're not, "average." Average players struggle to clear the basic vet dungeons. They don't get into the vet trial scene, because that's way above the median for player skill.

We talk about how players should be able to pull 40k easily, and then see players who are struggling to break 10k. And they outnumber us by a huge margin.

40k for vHRC... hahahaha... come on.

20k DPS with semi competent tanks and healers beat vHRC... there are a lot more players at 20k than you may feel.

Beardimus · September 2018

To be honest its the ones that put huge effort into Sorc stuff i feel for. Id be rage quitting if i where them.

Bit they good guys and I'm sure will stick it out. But honnestly i wouldn't blame them.

Sigma957 · September 2018

I just put this here, what about all the threads complaining about shield stacking sorcs that were just spamming hardened ward like no tomorrow

Now you have to think a little about what you are doing + side is you get 9 seconds instead of 6

Elsterchen · September 2018

No, definately not. I think our class reps are the only ones that safed us from an even worse patch.

To me its quite clear that the combat team is a little out of touch with their thought on how some classes/roles (or combinations thereof) are played ... and I believe the class reps are the only ones able to put their finger on those spots the combat team just misses. In many cases this improves the situation for us players and should definately be continued.

I just imagined evasion changes going through without stustain changes for templars or without a mobile major defence ability ... or both. I am glad the class representatives are as comitted as they are and hope they will not get discouraged by haters.

Cavedog · September 2018

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

personally i think so. They've shown they simply don't feel like listening to any class rep except NB players.

Yep! Exactly.

Turelus · September 2018

I think disbanding it would make things worse for those upset with the changes.

The reps are not there to make game balance changes but to advise where the changes could be and what's upsetting their classes player base. This is actually the perfect time to have them because they can give ZOS funnelled feedback.

Aionari · September 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its time to accept that ZOS is going to do what ZOS wants to do, and rhe class reps are purely advisory. Their main function is to provide community reactions and advice, but ultimately, we all know ZOS does what they want.

I think by advisory you mean decorative.

Mannix1958 · September 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Constructive discussion only.

The jury is still out but if they come out singing the praises of All of these changes then yeah...

Vrany69 · September 2018

Yeah I think the devs who work on the combat balance item sets skills etc need to find another position or a job

efster · September 2018

From what I can see, the class reps were doing everything they were meant to - compiling feedback from Y'ffre knows how many players and presenting the main concerns to the devs in a constructive way.

The devs heard the class reps out and came up with their own solutions to the problems they heard about, likely by the highly scientific process of throwing darts at a wall.

Working as intended.

Skander · September 2018

We need pvp class rapresentatives

TheYKcid · September 2018

I honestly feel bad for the class reps at this point.

They're clearly investing lots of effort to communicate with the playerbase, give us assurances and listen to our griefs—while not even being on the ZOS payroll.

And yet, judging from their responses thus far since the PTS notes dropped, it seems ZOS made this *** pile of changes without consulting them in any way. It's really starting to look like ZOS is making them waste their time while using them as convenient scapegoats when the playerbsae gets pissed-off.

jhall03 · September 2018

No, it’s working for the most part. Templar is an example.

GreenhaloX · September 2018

I don't know.. I see it as one of those good ideas for the start, but then along the way, you feel something of the such needs to be swept under the carpet or something. Ha ha.. However, not bashing on any good works or efforts those reps have put out. It just, I, personally, just only read the initial posting/advertisement about it by the good Gina at the beginning, and then each rep were selected; seemed that was it for me. I guess, not following it or seeing of any recurring post/discussion from the reps or any thread.. well, I don't really know or can say of the benefits of such rep system. Maybe it's been beneficial, or not..

boombazookajd · September 2018

sounds like a good time for me to start Monster Hunter: World.

MrTtheDK · September 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Constructive discussion only.

Simple answer. No. Stam has been over performing in PVP for too long with stamsorc standing out. They were too powerful with ability to have a third bar and infinite sustain while not having to build for it. They are closer in line with the other Stam classes now. Mag sorc got railed in terms of PVP but they aren't dead. They still have a lot of tools for damage and the passive changes for light armor is still a buff. I think shuffle and the Dodge change will hurt stamNB the most which is a good thing with their ability to cloak. I do wish medium got a little more love because I think the adjustment to shuffle is actually good for non NBs but only 3 percent more WD doesn't seem enough but we will see with more PTS testing. No one likes getting nerfed but it is required when balancing. God Bless.

DjMuscleboy02 · September 2018

I can definitely think of at least one who has about as much understand of the game as a player who's waiting for the download to finish.

Miswar · September 2018

After reading the patch notes especially regarding mag sorcs well RIP.

No need to have any representive system.

Btw who was the rep on sorcs? I mean gg you really out done yourself killing a class if this goes to live.

generalmyrick · September 2018

yeah, it has no purpose if this is what happens. who ever is making the final decisions is probably like an artist who doesn't want his/her masterpiece painted on by us/class reps.

just stop paying attention to it.

Iluvrien · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

I think disbanding it would make things worse for those upset with the changes.

The reps are not there to make game balance changes but to advise where the changes could be and what's upsetting their classes player base. This is actually the perfect time to have them because they can give ZOS funnelled feedback.

This only really supports the idea of the class rep system if the feedback given is functionally useful in a way that is not entirely PR based. What I mean by this is that ZOS is perfectly capable of saving every e-mail or meeting recording in a folder that nobody opens and saying "yes, we are listening to your feedback". It is technically true but functionally pointless.

Here's a test:
1) If the Sorc class rep provides rounded feedback on what we are seeing on the forums...
2) ... if ZOS takes this on board during the PTS cycle (not after)...
3) ... and material changes are then made to the outcome before it hits live.

Then at that point then I think we can safely conclude that the class rep system is delivering on its promise. Otherwise? Not so much.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2018

The problem is not on the Class Rep side of the house.