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Um... what about shields in PVE?
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XxCaLxX✭✭✭✭✭Guess I’ll either quit or go back to playing stamsorc for my main. I’ve broke at least 5 controllers playing this laggy game so not gonna break another by throwing it cuz I have to wait every time I wanna cast a shield so I don’t insta die.0 -
DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yet another PvP based change that destroys our PvE builds because ZOS can’t be bothered to balance the PvP skills differently from the way they balance PvE.
So sick of this.16 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lazy one shot kill mechanics combined with gutting of sorc shields. BRB buying new tokens to change my toons class.
Everything is proceeding as planned....
Edited by Mr_Walker on September 18, 2018 2:22AM3 -
LadyLethalla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shhh they are going to remove that one second cast time, so it appears they listen to you. They never intended that to go live. They massively over nerfed so they can give back and make you more accepting of the nerf they intended.
While I'd like to believe this, I'm not going to hold my breath...
As Marge Simpson would say... "It ain't gonna happen, bub!"
x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER2 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Don't be so hasty. They also did this:
"Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield."
"This change makes damage shields function more consistently with the rest of the game’s mechanics. It means that damage shields are more powerful in PvE content since monsters generally don’t reduce armor. Heavy Armor players in particular will receive much more effective damage shields now. This is intended to make damage shields a more potent tools for tanks."
That has no direct relevance to the main problem, which is getting shields up in time to not die.
It might make the deaths happen a LITTLE less frequently, because shields will last a bit longer once up ... but the deaths will still happen absent MAJOR changes in playstyle that are likely to significantly lessen overall effectiveness.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Serious question about this nerf:
I've only played stam characters, but could you get around the cast time by recasting the shield before the original shield runs out? I understand the original shield will take a second, but this sounds similar to the stam rotation where you cast Flames of Oblivion to keep it going right before it runs out.
Again, I've never played the magsorc character.
Shields go down two ways -- duration and being used up. Your suggestion is only relevant to the first.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I cant play pure glass cannon so all my characters have a bit more health and resist because im always stuck tanking when in a group dungeon, we don't use a tank. The shield thing wont affect me as it will most of you, i usually forget to cast it on my backbar and I use Lightning Form, but @Guppet has a point and we've been around this block before. However, I don't run Vet Trials and im kinda concerned with how this is going to play out because a lot of my friends keep shields up over everything else. You're likely gonna have to add more resist with CPEdited by D0PAMINE on September 18, 2018 3:40AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka players just got ZOS'd.
To be fair, stamina characters deserve to get some usage in PvE. I just struggle to understand why ZOS can't balance both specs simultaneously.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I cant play pure glass cannon so all my characters have a bit more health and resist because im always stuck tanking when in a group dungeon, we don't use a tank. The shield thing wont affect me as it will most of you, i usually forget to cast it on my backbar and I use Lightning Form, but @Guppet has a point and we've been around this block before. However, I don't run Vet Trials and im kinda concerned with how this is going to play out because a lot of my friends keep shields up over everything else. You're likely gonna have to add more resist with CP
Magicka classes won't have a place in most vet content. They were picked over stamina before because they had more survivability (shields + ranged DPS). Stamina now has more survivability, so magicka is out. It's a shame ZOS can't figure out a way to make BOTH specs useful at the same time. You'd think it's rocket science.Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 18, 2018 3:48AM1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VagabondLife wrote: »VagabondLife wrote: »Have you seen development comments for light armor shields 1 sec cast time? There’s your reason.
Plan ahead and shield.
Also, if you have to choose for 1 sec cast time for a big and longer shield or instant but weak shield with short duration what would u choose.
Instant and weaker. No question.
A weaker shield will still help me survive. A shield with a cast time will get me killed.
Why not have a better ward discipline, ward every 14 sec or when shield got destroyed.
Discipline? It's not a L2P issue, LOL.
In a trial or VMA, your shield might last 2-3 seconds before it gets eaten up anyway. If you're lucky.
I can't think of ANY content in this game, besides maybe overland questing, in which a single Hardened Ward is gonna last 14 seconds - or 9 seconds - against anything tougher than a mudcrab.
Could you provide some examples?
Have you seen alcast using the ward in blackrose prison arena today, he doesn’t have any problems.
Do they sell these “Alcasts” in the crown store? How can I get one to run my content?#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom3 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I cant play pure glass cannon so all my characters have a bit more health and resist because im always stuck tanking when in a group dungeon, we don't use a tank. The shield thing wont affect me as it will most of you, i usually forget to cast it on my backbar and I use Lightning Form, but @Guppet has a point and we've been around this block before. However, I don't run Vet Trials and im kinda concerned with how this is going to play out because a lot of my friends keep shields up over everything else. You're likely gonna have to add more resist with CP
Magicka classes won't have a place in most vet content. They were picked over stamina before because they had more survivability (shields + ranged DPS). Stamina now has more survivability, so magicka is out. It's a shame ZOS can't figure out a way to make BOTH specs useful at the same time. You'd think it's rocket science.
Yeah im not so sure how this is going to pan out.0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Magicka players just got ZOS'd.
To be fair, stamina characters deserve to get some usage in PvE. I just struggle to understand why ZOS can't balance both specs simultaneously.
Stam doesn't get much use because vAS and vCR were designed with ranged dps in mind. Every single mechanic is made easier with ranged dps and you're actively punished if you play melee. We aren't going to see more stam in these trials even with this change because no one wants to play stam there and no one wants stam in their group, at least not for vAS+2 or vCR+3.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Gandork✭I think people are missing the point, shields should be used in anticipation of damage, not as a reaction. A mage caught unaware should be in hot water, not instantly unkillable.
If you plan ahead and strategize like a caster in lore, the changes are a buff in many circumstances since the added resistances are essentially a ~30% size increase and besides parse bosses (where you're not shielding anyway) you'll often have free 1+ second gaps to utilize.
I support the changes as they enforce thoughtful gameplay instead of leaving mistakes unpunished.
If you have trouble surviving, just stat some extra health at the expense of a little DPS. Being a glass canon is not mandatory, it's just the norm because everyone copies the top players.1 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VagabondLife wrote: »My magsorcs wear cloth armor. They have exactly enough stamina to roll dodge twice (assuming they haven't recently needed to Break Free or block cast, that is. Ha ha.) All of their skills are AoEs, so they aggro EVERYTHING in a trial or dungeon that hasn't been taunted. In VMA or other solo content, they basically just put down their dots, and then spam shields until everything around them is dead.
Can anybody explain to me how I'm supposed to survive ANY solo content if shields have a cast time? Or do any kind of reasonable DPS in a trial, when I have to interrupt my attack weaving every five seconds to hard cast a shield?
Who wanted this??? How is this a good or necessary change?
Oh, and thanks for killing my magsorc healer while you were at it. The third skill bar from Overload is the only advantage a sorcerer has over ANY other class when it comes to healing.
WTH is wrong with you ZoS? I'm asking this in all seriousness. Have you lost your minds?
I dunno, maybe some other skills become useful, or CP points that lower your break free cost...huh funny how this balancing thing works. You can't just spam 3-4 skills and live through anything and solo content intended for groups.0 -
Diora✭✭✭LOL at these people saying to pre-cast shields and anticipate damage. Have you ever actually DONE vMA? (which is a solo trial, you cannot take a healer with you).
there is no "anticipating damage" when the damage is constant and bigger than my natural HP pool.
every time i read one of these comments, i instantly discount it, because it's obvious the commentor has never played mag in high level content.
And no, i can't dodge-roll out of everything. I have 10k stamina. That's 2 dodge rolls or break frees and then i'm done.
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Indigo_Shade✭✭✭I have 0 interest in PVP and hate having to "learn my class over again" because PVP players can't seem to learn the idea of "adaption", which is actually forced on us PVE players every time there is a nerf like this. We complain, we adapt, it sucks every time, but we want to play what we want to play. I'm sure that goes for a few PVP people as well.
NB got nerfed around the time my main (and first ESO character) hit 160. I played for a bit, but lost interest when her DPS just could not be improved over 5k. Decided to play another game for a while.
Came back, rolled a sorcerer, and I might as well be back at square one if this change is as bad as everyone expects. There goes all my plans to quickly start working on gear for end-game content, monster sets, etc. Why, because I expect that I've have to learn a whole new build once this drops. Putting me back to where I was 1.5 months ago when I came back to the game. This almost makes me think end-game content isn't worth the aggravation.
As a long, long term MMO player I expect these changes, up to a point. But man, I am tired of having to spend months relearning a new class.4 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭VagabondLife wrote: »
I don’t pvp, I’m all about PVE.
Don’t be dramatic, adapt and play differently.
It is time to nerf mags in general with the shields anyway, they’re way too op and easy.
You're just salty af. Mag have no other defense. And are way more squishy than any other character in the game. Shields dont make anything easy, it makes it survivable. Let's put block on a 1 second cool down and see how you like it.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Splattercat_83 wrote: »VagabondLife wrote: »
I don’t pvp, I’m all about PVE.
Don’t be dramatic, adapt and play differently.
It is time to nerf mags in general with the shields anyway, they’re way too op and easy.
You're just salty af. Mag have no other defense. And are way more squishy than any other character in the game. Shields dont make anything easy, it makes it survivable. Let's put block on a 1 second cool down and see how you like it.
I've played with that, in fact. Back when Dragonbones dropped, there was a full lockout on bar swap.0 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, it's sounds like most trails you will die with no shields?
Stam doesn't have shields and maybe they changed things not because of pvp. Maybe because of the state of things where mag is dominant due to shields in trials and such.
If mag IS dominant wouldn't this make things a bit more balanced if Stam has such a hard time with the most recent dungeons and trials?Edited by MajBludd on September 19, 2018 12:23AM1 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭
[/quote]
Have you seen alcast using the ward in blackrose prison arena today, he doesn’t have any problems.[/quote]
the problem of alcast as your evidence is he agrees with the points being made by the people you are argueing with. check out his video0 -
Gandork✭LOL at these people saying to pre-cast shields and anticipate damage. Have you ever actually DONE vMA? (which is a solo trial, you cannot take a healer with you).
Yes, I know a thing or two about vMA (stamblade being #2 on the NA leaderboards atm).
If you would like to see vMA done on a mag toon without a shield, I have an old magblade video on youtube running it with nothing but funnel health on my skill bar.
Instead of planning on soaking up tons of damage, its better to come up with strategies to reduce the amount of damage coming at you. Nuke dangerous enemies first, snare/immobilize melee enemies so they can't hit you, learn how to manipulate enemies into casting easily avoidable attacks, etc. There's more to staying alive than just spamming shields, I believe making them more tactile will create better players.
If you're not satisfied with your stamina pool, just stat some extra, tri-glyphs are more efficient anyway. DPS in vMA is far more dependent on your positioning and DoT placement than raw stats.1 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭DarcyMardin wrote: »Yet another PvP based change that destroys our PvE builds because ZOS can’t be bothered to balance the PvP skills differently from the way they balance PvE.
So sick of this.
QFT2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyLethalla wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »Kiss vMA goodbye.
vMA is clearable on StamBuilds. vMA is clearable with no gear. It's clearable with no skills slotted.
You might not be able to clear it. But, that doesn't mean it's impossible. Ask @gandork.
It may be clearable for YOU on stam toons, and /or with no gear and /or with no skills.
For those of us with high ping (mine's 360 at my prime play time) and / or age- or disability- poor reflexes issues, the cast time means I probably won't ever run VMA again, since I have both the high ping AND age-related poor reflexes.
Or, you could discover that vMA is heavily dependent on knowledge of the arena, and the changes to shields actually benefit you, because it will increase the durability of your individual shields considerably.1 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stop playing the content.. That and stop buying anything is the only way they will remove these balance devs.. Honestly they really aren't doing their jobs..2 -
OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, it's sounds like most trails you will die with no shields?
Stam doesn't have shields and maybe they changed things not because of pvp. Maybe because of the state of things where mag is dominant due to shields in trials and such.
If mag IS dominant wouldn't this make things a bit more balanced if Stam has such a hard time with the most recent dungeons and trials?
So, couple things. First, stamina DPS, while squishy, aren't quite as squishy as magicka DPS toons. Also, they have enough stamina to regularly dodge roll out of the way of attacks or simply use their battlefield mobility (and the bonuses they get to that from medium armor) to their advantage. Magicka toons, DPS or otherwise, don't have that. Most of them really do rely on shields for surviving in most vet PvE content, so this change doesn't even out the playing field between stamina and magicka toons, as magicka toons are considerably less survivable without being able to insta-cast or shield-stack through PvE mechanics like channeled boss attacks. Not all magicka builds rely on shields, but I'd argue most do, and those builds that do are now lower on the totem pole than stam DPS are.
Second thing: speaking personally, I fundamentally disagree with the "nerf everything until it's all equally crappy" approach to balance. I would much rather see more difficult or more creative PvE challenges that circumvent or subvert a playstyle strength rather than taking the nerf bat to everything. That's just me, I suppose, but I rarely see the nerf-heavy approach work particularly well in online games.
Edited by OrdoHermetica on September 19, 2018 12:55AM2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭VagabondLife wrote: »My magsorcs wear cloth armor. They have exactly enough stamina to roll dodge twice (assuming they haven't recently needed to Break Free or block cast, that is. Ha ha.) All of their skills are AoEs, so they aggro EVERYTHING in a trial or dungeon that hasn't been taunted. In VMA or other solo content, they basically just put down their dots, and then spam shields until everything around them is dead.
Can anybody explain to me how I'm supposed to survive ANY solo content if shields have a cast time? Or do any kind of reasonable DPS in a trial, when I have to interrupt my attack weaving every five seconds to hard cast a shield?
Who wanted this??? How is this a good or necessary change?
Oh, and thanks for killing my magsorc healer while you were at it. The third skill bar from Overload is the only advantage a sorcerer has over ANY other class when it comes to healing.
WTH is wrong with you ZoS? I'm asking this in all seriousness. Have you lost your minds?
thats what happens when you balance a game around 1v1 pvp lol. but dont ask the population thats been playing MMOs for 20 years. ask that kid right out of programming school that plays call of duty how to fix our balance he will know!1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is the problem with not separating PvP and PvE rulesets. In order to "balance" (appease the vocal minority) PvP, they needlessly damage PvE players.
I agree with you.
There is no need whatsoever to keep nuking PvE players. I am one of those people who was quite happy with ESO and didn't have a need to come to these forums and voice my opinion. Recently, however..wow. I am NOT happy with the direction the game is going.
Maybe if you came to the forums more often you'd be better informed.
Lots of nerfs that clueless PvE players claim are down to PvP are nothing of the sort, they are either down entirely to PvE or at least partly.
Ironically the shield nerfs are an example of that, as you have apparently missed it, the devs stated they had an issue with shields in PvE, that shields were impacting the role of healers, hence at least part of the reason shields are being nerfed is down to PvE. (and a minority of PvE players at that)Edited by Sylosi on September 19, 2018 2:47PM0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarcyMardin wrote: »Yet another PvP based change that destroys our PvE builds because ZOS can’t be bothered to balance the PvP skills differently from the way they balance PvE.
So sick of this.
This has nothing to do with PVP. Sorc shields were no longer OP there, along with most other shield builds besides a few troll tank build.
This is because of magicka being the go to for dps in vet content, leaving stam builds out in the cold along with the 3 dps+tank for vet dungeonsBeta tester November 20131 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stop playing the content.. That and stop buying anything is the only way they will remove these balance devs.. Honestly they really aren't doing their jobs..
I'm not sure if this will do the trick.
ZOS has implemented some weird changes in the past which made many players quit the game and/or stopped buying anything.
The Dark Brotherhood Update nerf to shield, 20 seconds to 6 seconds duration is one example for ZOS not reverting their change.
Many players quit the game due to this change.
If the Lead Combat Designer and his team are determined this is the way to go, only serious attempts to convince them may change their mind.
There is a chance your method will help but it doesn't guarantee that the change to shields will be reverted.
Edited by Universe on September 19, 2018 10:17PMSome videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DarcyMardin wrote: »Yet another PvP based change that destroys our PvE builds because ZOS can’t be bothered to balance the PvP skills differently from the way they balance PvE.
So sick of this.
This has nothing to do with PVP. Sorc shields were no longer OP there, along with most other shield builds besides a few troll tank build.
This is because of magicka being the go to for dps in vet content, leaving stam builds out in the cold along with the 3 dps+tank for vet dungeons
That is because a lot of us are in high ping/latency areas, magicka works ok in that environment stamina is unplayable..Stop playing the content.. That and stop buying anything is the only way they will remove these balance devs.. Honestly they really aren't doing their jobs..
I'm not sure if this will do the trick.
ZOS has implemented some weird changes in the past which made many players quit the game and/or stopped buying anything.
The Dark Brotherhood Update nerf to shield, 20 seconds to 6 seconds duration is one example for ZOS not reverting their change.
Many players quit the game due to this change.
If the Lead Combat Designer and his team are determined this is the way to go, only serious attempts to convince them may change their mind.
There is a chance your method will help but it doesn't guarantee that the change to shields will be reverted.
If no one wants to play after changes the company loses money and the shareholders want to know why. They will look to the cause and it will be these balance developers..
That really only hinges on a lot of customers moving on tho.. if the changes really are unplayable in multiple content it may happen.
I hope not as ESO is one of the last popular mmorpgs left, but hey i've seen this happen in other mmos so who knows.Edited by DanteYoda on September 20, 2018 12:36AM0