Questing is so easy it's boring

Swomp23 · September 2018

Hi guys,
So just a bit of backstory to explain how I feel about questing. I played ESO for a couple months 2 years ago and really had a blast. I leveled 3 chars to 50 and got to 260 cp. Then I got bored and I didn't remember why until recently. 1 month ago, I was feeling like playing a good RPG. I'm on XBox, so no access to Zelda, Horizon or the likes. I played through Witcher 3 once and Skyrim about 10 times and didn't want to go back to those. So I thought I'd go back to ESO to level another char to 50, enjoying the questing and not rushing anything. So I rolled a magblade, which I never played, and had a blast playing through Morrowind and Clockwork city. I really love that solo storytelling part of ESO.
But of course, things didn't go as planned for very long. I got sucked back in dungeons, then vet dungeons, then builds to be as effective as possible, then skele parse (which didn't exist when I played 2 years ago). And I'm really having a lot of fun with that, and that is perfectly cool.
But then, I went back to questing between dungeons and boy is that exhausting. Roll through heaps of monsters that die within 2 hits, sprint between encounters to finish this drudgery as fast as possible and repeat. I even started skippin dialogue because I was feeling it was taking too long to complete content that was not rewarding in terms on gameplay enjoyment. Of course, I could stop questing, but I still have to do something in the 30 mins queue before dungeons and I do need the skill points rewarded after some quests. But most importantly, questing is such a huge part of this game and could be so wonderful with a couple of adjustments that I know that if I stop questing completly, I will get bored again of just doing my pledges and drop out a second time.

Which brings us to the second part of my post. What could we change to make questing interesting again? Of course, we could just increase the difficulty of all overland content. I did some research before making this thread, and even if the majority of players were thinking that questing was too easy, many commenters said that it was just fine, or even too difficult. So we can't do that.
In Skyrim and other sp RPGs, when the game would become too easy after some leveling and character build, we could just amp up the difficulty slider. It's the perfect solution for everyone to be able to enjoy content at the difficulty they want. However, in a MMO, we can't do that. Everyone in a zone has to face the same mobs, with the same stats. So the difficulty in an instanced zone has to be equal for everyone.

But why exactly couldn't we have instances of different difficulties?There are already many different instances of every zone, so there are not too many people in a zone. If there would be a normal and a veteran instance of every zone, people would have the choice of choosing the difficulty they like. To make up for the increase in time needed to complete a quest, the experience gained from killing mobs could be doubled. Drops could be higher quality too, but that is very secondary to me. What I really want, is a fun, rewarding way to fill my playtime. And I would much more appreciate doing quests at a challenging difficulty to grind exp than do normal random dailies on my 4 alts.

TL:DR : Questing is one of the most appealing aspect of ESO. It's of much higher quality than other MMO, and comparable to single player RPGs. But it's abysmal low difficulty make it very boring once you reach a certain level. Make a normal and a vet instance of every overland zone and give vet mobs exp rewards comparable to random normal dailies.

What do you guys think? Would more challenging overland zones make you want to quest again?

Apache_Kid · September 2018

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story. Arenas, dungeons, trials, PvP, these are the places you should go if you are looking for a challenge.

Overland content may seem stupid easy to you but I've had to help guild mates and people in zone chat before who could not kill overland quest bosses. Yes I can kill them in 3 seconds but many players wipe over and over and over to these things.

Questing needs to be the one piece of content that is accessible to everyone regardless of skill or capability. It is part of the reason why I think ESO has succeeded where many MMOs have not, having a large casual player-base. ZoS's strengths has always been questing and story-telling. There is so much challenging content out there in the game if you want to seek it out. Questing in ESO will never be what you want it to be however. The enjoyment is supposed to be in the story, not the combat.

Datthaw · September 2018

You're gonna get the same answer all these post get.

"Some of us like it easy"

"What about the casual players"

"Why don't you just quest with no gear or cp if you want a challenge"

Video games have hit a new level of easy and it's sad

Dashmatt · September 2018

Daedric Prince: “I cannot believe my plans have been foiled again.”

Earl: “But how could they defeat one so powerful?”

Daedric Prince: “Light Attacks, mostly.”

mocap · September 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story.

Do you realize that there is more than 1000 quests with same difficulty? Endgame content is repetative. Questing is something unique.

Once your guild mate get to CP 160+ he WILL start crying about how easy overland is.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · September 2018

Dashmatt wrote: »

Daedric Prince: “I cannot believe my plans have been foiled again.”

Earl: “But how could they defeat one so powerful?”

Daedric Prince: “Light Attacks, mostly.”

If the game would’ve let me I’d totally join Molag’s side-

Swomp23 · September 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story. Arenas, dungeons, trials, PvP, these are the places you should go if you are looking for a challenge.

Overland content may seem stupid easy to you but I've had to help guild mates and people in zone chat before who could not kill overland quest bosses. Yes I can kill them in 3 seconds but many players wipe over and over and over to these things.

Questing needs to be the one piece of content that is accessible to everyone regardless of skill or capability. It is part of the reason why I think ESO has succeeded where many MMOs have not, having a large casual player-base. ZoS's strengths has always been questing and story-telling. There is so much challenging content out there in the game if you want to seek it out. Questing in ESO will never be what you want it to be however. The enjoyment is supposed to be in the story, not the combat.

Thanks for the reply. You make a very valid point, but it makes me wonder if you even read the TLDR. I clearly said in my post that we can't just increase the difficulty of overland zones, precisely for the reasons you write. What I want is a normal AND a vet instance of every zone. So everyone can chose the one they're interested in.

Arenas, dungeons and trials all are group content (except vMA and I'm not completly rdy to go there yet). What Iove about this game is the opportunity to play solo if you like. And right, now, I feel there is no interesting solo content for over-160cp characters. As for PVP, I never really enjoyed it. I do my daily Battleground, for the exp, but it feels like a chore.

crjs1 · September 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story. Arenas, dungeons, trials, PvP, these are the places you should go if you are looking for a challenge.

Overland content may seem stupid easy to you but I've had to help guild mates and people in zone chat before who could not kill overland quest bosses. Yes I can kill them in 3 seconds but many players wipe over and over and over to these things.

Questing needs to be the one piece of content that is accessible to everyone regardless of skill or capability. It is part of the reason why I think ESO has succeeded where many MMOs have not, having a large casual player-base. ZoS's strengths has always been questing and story-telling. There is so much challenging content out there in the game if you want to seek it out. Questing in ESO will never be what you want it to be however. The enjoyment is supposed to be in the story, not the combat.

This 100%

Apache_Kid · September 2018

mocap wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story.

Do you realize that there is more than 1000 quests with same difficulty? Endgame content is repetative. Questing is something unique.

Once your guild mate get to CP 160+ he WILL start crying about how easy overland is.

I've seen CP 780s who are 50 year old dads that wear no gear and spam gap closers and die to everything. Endgame content is repetative but it is also meant to be progressed. Things like vAS HM and Cloudrest Hm do not happen over night while i could knock out 50-100 quests in a day. It is all relative.

Swomp23 · September 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Endgame content is repetative but it is also meant to be progressed. Things like vAS HM and Cloudrest Hm do not happen over night while i could knock out 50-100 quests in a day. It is all relative.

I completly agree with this and this is what I complain about in my post. There is no progression in difficulty.For solo content, you have walk-in-the-park overland quests, then boom, vMA wall. With vet instances of overland zones, there would be a very interesting in-between.

casparian · September 2018

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story

Right. Like the story about how Mannimarco, one of the most powerful and intelligent villains in the entire TES series, was light attacked to death before he could finish his opening monologue. Great story!

Nobody is asking for overland content to become like Dark Souls. But at some point well before the game's zillion hours of questing is over, many of us begin to feel that the unchanging, bottom-tier difficulty of the quests makes it harder for us to be immersed in the story. This is a game, after all, not a visual novel.

Tandor · September 2018

mocap wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story.

Do you realize that there is more than 1000 quests with same difficulty? Endgame content is repetative. Questing is something unique.

Once your guild mate get to CP 160+ he WILL start crying about how easy overland is.

I have CP 200 and don't find overland easy, world boss mobs are impossible on my own and the questing content is just right.

But then I don't do dungeons, trials or PvP, and I don't worry about my build or gear. I'm simply not into the min/max style of playing and you need to be (or else at least have your CP capped) if you're going to want to solo world boss mobs - and then you will of course find everything else pretty darn easy too! Overland content isn't aimed at such players, their challenge is intended to be in dungeons, trials and PvP.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

I've suggested a few fixes for this in the past:

1. Vet quest instances (most story line quests are instanced, so this is easy to implement).
2. An optional debuff that removes CP and scales down gear to level 50.

Biro123 · September 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story.

Do you realize that there is more than 1000 quests with same difficulty? Endgame content is repetative. Questing is something unique.

Once your guild mate get to CP 160+ he WILL start crying about how easy overland is.

I've seen CP 780s who are 50 year old dads that wear no gear and spam gap closers and die to everything. Endgame content is repetative but it is also meant to be progressed. Things like vAS HM and Cloudrest Hm do not happen over night while i could knock out 50-100 quests in a day. It is all relative.

Oi! I'm a 50-year-old dad! And I've solo'd most of the soloable dungeons on Vet.

Nah.. I understand that the questing level is right for somebody with no CP's, levelling gup their first character and with access to only dropped gear and probably poor game knowledge..

But it does become faceroll easy - which means that people never have to adapt and learn to play - I say the reason there are people with no gear who die to everything is that they are used to doing what they do and everything else dying...

Imho, the base game should stay as is - but all DLC overland zones should be progressively more difficult (in order they were released) with new content scaling to whatever the new CP cap is.. New players should also start in the base game locations.

I love questing - or at least I do when you get a sense of accomplishment for doing it. But I detest what it has become in ESO. OP is right when he said he was skipping through dialogue because he felt it was too slow... It isn't, but when you become dis-engaged from the believability and immersion of the quest due to stupidly easy mobs, then you either stop doing them - or just do it for the rewards - in which case you do end up wanting to rush through as fast as possible.

Swomp23 · September 2018

Tandor wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Questing isn't supposed to be about difficulty it's supposed to be about the story.

Do you realize that there is more than 1000 quests with same difficulty? Endgame content is repetative. Questing is something unique.

Once your guild mate get to CP 160+ he WILL start crying about how easy overland is.

I have CP 200 and don't find overland easy, world boss mobs are impossible on my own and the questing content is just right.

But then I don't do dungeons, trials or PvP, and I don't worry about my build or gear. I'm simply not into the min/max style of playing and you need to be (or else at least have your CP capped) if you're going to want to solo world boss mobs - and then you will of course find everything else pretty darn easy too! Overland content isn't aimed at such players, their challenge is intended to be in dungeons, trials and PvP.

And this is exactly why we need 2 different difficulties for oveland zones. For people like you who do not enjoy meta builds and just want to have fun by playing the way you like. You are completly entitled to experience this in this type of game. It was designed, in part, for people like you.

But having the opportunity to choose between 2 difficulties of overland zones would allow every type of player to enjoy this content.

mocap · September 2018

Tandor wrote: »

I have CP 200 and don't find overland easy, world boss mobs are impossible on my own and the questing content is just right.

world boss doesn't supposed to be soloed unless you have good gear, CP or skills.

Overland is mostly quests and current questing experience completely ruined by incredibly low difficulty, doesn't matter you have CP or not, set gear or random green items. Overything die quickly.

Oh, did i mentioned, that if there are random players in your delve, then final boss will be melted at speed of light? )
(sometimes you can't even hit the boss, so need to wait to respawn him lol).

srfrogg23 · September 2018

I say, "YOLO!".

Just nerf everything to balance all of the game content around open world questing. Dungeon and Trial gear make open world questing too easy to be entertaining, so just balance everything around open world questing so it stays relevant.

Sailor_Palutena · September 2018

The quests aren't boring because of the difficulty, they are boring because you go to a NPC, skip all the text, go to the arrow, get the reward and goes next. If I were to play like this I would already have quit. I listen (or at least read) all the quests, except dungeon ones because people will kick me for delaying. So I read those on UESP.

I find it so rewarding when I go to a zone and find an old friend NPC and they recognize me for my deeds. That's what keeps me going on. I play everything in order to make sure the context is always spot on. Once I finish all the content I plan to make an alt and choose differently most of my previous decisions. I went as a paladin-like good person with my Altmer Templar. My future Nightblade (still deciding faction) will be pure evil.

Swomp23 · September 2018

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

The quests aren't boring because of the difficulty, they are boring because you go to a NPC, skip all the text, go to the arrow, get the reward and goes next. If I were to play like this I would already have quit. I listen (or at least read) all the quests, except dungeon ones because people will kick me for delaying. So I read those on UESP.

I find it so rewarding when I go to a zone and find an old friend NPC and they recognize me for my deeds. That's what keeps me going on. I play everything in order to make sure the context is always spot on. Once I finish all the content I plan to make an alt and choose differently most of my previous decisions. I went as a paladin-like good person with my Altmer Templar. My future Nightblade (still deciding faction) will be pure evil.

I completly disagree. It's so easy that I don't enjoy them at all anymore. So I do them just for the exp and the occasional skill point. And I'm so bored that I just want to be done with them as fast as possible. Which is very sad, because that's what I enjoyed the most while leveling.

I mean, is it really too much to ask to have solo content of varying difficulties? Something between current overland and vMA?

What pisses me the most is that everyone who disagree just say that they enjoy easy content. I never said we need to take that back! We need to give everyone the opportunity to choose the difficulty they enjoy for solo content. A normal and a vet instance, just like the dungeons. And to compensate for the difficulty, they give more exp, as opposed to vet dungeons that give better gear.

TastesAllColors · September 2018

Make the NPCs smarter and use co-operative tactics against you.

Upgrade NPC AI.... by a lot.

Give the npc AI access to real world information. "Hi <your real name>, How's it going in <your home town>?

Give the AI access to a 3D printer: You hear a knock at your door. "Hello? Who is this?" "Hi, this is Molag Bal, I've come to claim your soul."

Agenericname · September 2018

Swomp23 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Endgame content is repetative but it is also meant to be progressed. Things like vAS HM and Cloudrest Hm do not happen over night while i could knock out 50-100 quests in a day. It is all relative.

I completly agree with this and this is what I complain about in my post. There is no progression in difficulty.For solo content, you have walk-in-the-park overland quests, then boom, vMA wall. With vet instances of overland zones, there would be a very interesting in-between.

It doesnt need progression to be interesting. People read all the time and for most it offers little to no difficulty. They do it because its entertaining.

I wouldnt be opposed to vet v normal versions, but I think there are hotter irons in the fire so-to-speak and they may need to take priority. With the issues in Cyrodiil and class balancing I tend to think "if it's not broken...it easily could be."

El_Borracho · September 2018

The ease doesn't bother me. It was just hard enough the first time through when I was a Level 1. Of course its easier your second time through when you are Level 1 with 600+ CP and have gear crafted for you by your other toon, and even easier when new zones open and you are already OP on your original character. I think it would be an unnecessary grind to make it hard all over again on a game that pushes for multiple characters to be used in different ways, both solo, group, and PvP.

If I could change one thing, it would be the elimination of fetch missions. Most zones did not have them, but I still think of the annoyance of the Glenumbra quests which nearly all seemed to be "run over there, get something, come back here. Repeat." Then to see the same nonsense in the Psijic line quest. Ugh.

Watchdog · September 2018

Double the instances means double the server load. How much extra are people willing to pay to ZOS?

Another solution was suggested by someone else in a similar thread - the Undaunted Mead, a new drink that would reduce one's stats or perhaps simply remove CP bonuses for the duration. I would say it was a brilliant idea.

EvilCroc · September 2018

Tanks and heals should quest too.
Stop being an DD and enjoy your questing.
Story is not about challenge, it's about plot.

Sevn · September 2018

Creating a separate vet zone would go completely against 1tam. Don't know why this keeps getting suggested. They implemented 1tam to bring players together, creating a vet zone like before negates that.

Vet zones were ghost towns before 1tam, great for farming, terrible for interacting with other people and seeing empty towns is much more immersive breaking than wolves/bandits that die to light attacks. It'd be a waste of time and resources.

Debuff option? Already available to everyone and the push back against it is they don't want their toons weaken. Again, a waste of time and resources.

Any other suggestions that don't negate 1tam or offer a debuff already available? For a minority that wants this done for free I might add.

xan4silkb14_ESO · September 2018

I don't know if there's much to be done once you get to CP levels without making it too hard for casual players. I'd like to go back to a modified version of pre-One Tamriel. Quest and monster levels that mean something but still have open borders and your low level character can go try if you think you've got the skills. None of the BS no xp if you outleveled the monsters by more than 6 levels. XP only scales quest level +5ish because you shouldn't get the same progression towards the next level from any easy quest vs a harder quest. I'm sure there are some other things as well but I'd like levels to mean a little more than just how many more skills I have access to.

I'm probably just asking for a whole new ESO game rather than try to modify what we have currently.

Davor · September 2018

Wait. Game to easy? Things need to change? You have the power to change it. You just choose not to. You know you don't need to use the "best gear". Is the game easy when you go in naked?

I don't want to hear "I shouldn't have to gimp myself". You ask for change you have the power so do so. If the game is still "easy" when you go in naked then you have something to complain about. Until then the power is in your hands, you can make the game as easy or as hard as you want.

Aebaradath · September 2018

Of course it's too easy. Back when the game actually came out it was somewhat challenging, Craglorn wasps could potentially even wreck you with Veteran Ranks.

Kolache · September 2018

If you made questing more difficult how could my cat play ESO? You're selfish.

Prof_Bawbag · September 2018

I'm assuming most MMO's are easy. I shared the same opinion as you, then went to play neverwinter. That was mostly a face roll too.

That's why there's end game content for those who want a challenge of sorts. Is questing too easy - yeah. No one can really deny that. But it's not really aimed at those with bags full of cp.

Swomp23 · September 2018

Sevn wrote: »

Creating a separate vet zone would go completely against 1tam. Don't know why this keeps getting suggested. They implemented 1tam to bring players together, creating a vet zone like before negates that.

Vet zones were ghost towns before 1tam, great for farming, terrible for interacting with other people and seeing empty towns is much more immersive breaking than wolves/bandits that die to light attacks. It'd be a waste of time and resources.

Debuff option? Already available to everyone and the push back against it is they don't want their toons weaken. Again, a waste of time and resources.

Any other suggestions that don't negate 1tam or offer a debuff already available? For a minority that wants this done for free I might add.

I'm not so sure different zones would go against 1tam. There are already different instances of zone to prevent surpopulation. Norm and vet instances would just split people based on difficulty instead of random.

But let's say it is. Maybe surpopulation isn't as widespread and there is less instances than I think. This is possible. So let's say we can't do that either.

A couple of other people also spoke about debuff options. I'm not a fan of gimping my character just for the sake of making content more difficult. This is a RPG, you should build your character so it becomes as strong as possible. Not the other way around. And I don't feel like taking 2x as much time to do the content for the same rewards. But @Watchdog mentioned the Undaunted Mead and I kinda like this idea. It could be something like drop your damage and heals to half and give 300% exp from completing quests for 1 hour.

I don't know. I don't have the perfect solution, I'm just throwin ideas around. I'm searching for an alternative to difficulty slider. All I know is that questing is boring because it's too easy and it's not rewarding in terms of exp. I would much rather do hard quests all day instead of queuing random pugs to grind exp.

I am currently questing in Craglorn, as I hoped the difficulty would be increased. I was disappointed to see that solo content is the same as everywhere else. Yesterday I tried a group mini-dungeon in the mid-north where I had to kill mobs while a guy was closing portals. I don't remember the name. Anyway, I really had a blast. I died once, which was surprisingly refreshing. This is what gave me the idea of this post. This is what solo questing should feel like for people enjoying challenges in games.

I hear a lot of people saying questing shouldn't be about challenge, it should be about story. I disagree. It's different for every person, everyone enjoys something different. I tried my best to find solutions that would resect your way of enjoying games. I would appreciate if you could respect that other people don't enjoy a casual storytelling.