What happened to heavy armor?
Skander
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
Why heavy armor is now like wearing a toga?
It doesn't mitigate enough damage.
And still you can't kill an opponent as fast as he can kill you, in every other light or medium that is.
Buf heavy armor
It doesn't mitigate enough damage.
And still you can't kill an opponent as fast as he can kill you, in every other light or medium that is.
Buf heavy armor
I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations
8
-
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heavy armour vs. Light Armour is roughly a 9% trade-off between damage taken/damage done. At least on my magplar, that's the % I keep coming up with.
They're changing Light/Med with Murkmire(or so it sounds like, at least).Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
Lieblingsjunge(AD) - Racechanged Argonian :< | AR 50 - No double AP or Bleakers involved |
Sits-On-Cacti(DC) - Problem?
Fail-With-Tail(AD) - Healing Springs-spammer :<
Tiny Liebs(EP) - Very Tiny. Also heals.
Lieblingsmädchen(DC) - Magplar is love.
The Dominàtrix(AD) - Chains, whip, whip, whip.
Fluffy Furball Kitten(DC) - Kittycat, meow.
Your Face(EP) - People make bad jokes about my name =(
Liebs-With-Trees(AD) - Male argo with a big tail :>
Officer/Sandwitch of Zerg Squad
My title: The Maneater, Destroyer of Maneuvers, Bane of Potatoes, she who devours them, The Black Hole, the humorless, first of her name.2 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Heavy armour vs. Light Armour is roughly a 9% trade-off between damage taken/damage done. At least on my magplar, that's the % I keep coming up with.
They're changing Light/Med with Murkmire(or so it sounds like, at least).
Less. A snipe does 5k on heavy. 7k on light armor
My destro does twice the damage in light then in heavy
The damage/tank tradeoff for heavy it's unfair. They should buff the hell out heavy armor tank.I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations6 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.Edited by ak_pvp on September 15, 2018 12:03AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.8 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is one of those threads that won't get very many responses, but the moment they buff (say like they bring back wrath) you'll see 500 heavy armor QQ threads.
While I thought wrath should never have been removed (black rose Nerf was more than enough)
We won't see very many disagreements unless it happens.
The silent jerks5 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭Heavy and light armor offer similar defensive capabilities.
Heavy has higher base resistances, while still offering options for mobility and dodge roll ability in some cases. Light has shields.
You can still be plenty bursty in heavy, just as you can in light.
I think the two are balanced very well against each other, personally. Neither in need a nerf. If anything, heavy could use a slight buff maybe a reversion of the wrath nerf, that was unneeded.
I have never once thought while fighting a mag shield stacker that shields are in need of a nerf. If I am running stam/heavy, I've always just thought "Oh, their defenses are pretty close to the level I'm at". I've killed plenty a shield stacker in duels, not like they are unkillable.
So if ZOS is going to go the route of nerfing shields (presumably to change the way PvP plays?), I hope mag/light receives appropriate buffs to compensate for that, and that heavy is not nerfed.
As it stands now, HA is far more enjoyable to play than medium. Not even close.Edited by Finviuswe on September 15, 2018 12:58AM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After ZOS spent every update since Morrowind trying to tone down heavy armor tanks in PVP, I really doubt that buffs are in the cards for a while.1 -
LeifErickson✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
But heavy has better damage sets and better sustain7 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
Much higher damage? Really? Is it much?
Hmmm. Is there no way we can get heavy damage a little closer to medium?
Because if so, that is great. Heavy will not be nerfed again.
That's why I'll usually say, if you want to run more damage, you have to run medium. No other way. Heavy is for tanks and people that are okay with having less damage. Nothing we can do!Edited by Finviuswe on September 15, 2018 4:27AM0 -
LeifErickson✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeifErickson wrote: »Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
But heavy has better damage sets and better sustain
You can run those damage sets in a medium build though. You wanna run fury in medium? You can.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
But heavy has better damage sets and better sustain
You can run those damage sets in a medium build though. You wanna run fury in medium? You can.
You can run them in medium but that's suicidal as you need to take damage to proc them. You can't sustain blocking in medium.Edited by susmitds on September 15, 2018 5:08AM1 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
@ak_pvp You know that mobility for stamina is what shields are for magica????
They just need to add some snare immunity ability to mages guild or something.
the damage from heavy armor comes with 90% of stam builds from sets like, 7th legion, fury those sets need some adjusting.
That and DboS stacking....
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
But heavy has better damage sets and better sustain
You can run those damage sets in a medium build though. You wanna run fury in medium? You can.
@LeifErickson Heavy armor passive: 541 (constitution)--->270 stam recovery
medium armor passsive: 20% stamina recovery---> roughly 400 stamina recovery if running with a 2k base r
ecovery like most medium builds+10% cost reduction
Just explain to me please how sustain is better in heavy?????
Medium smashes heavy in sustain, heavy means more heals and less damage, both essential in the high damage and ult stacking enviroment atm... Thats why every one runns heavy, not because they dont run around with full stamins 24/7 but because their odds of survival increase dramatically
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.1 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
It has much more of neither in practice. Medium and heavy armor builds are comparable in damage because most medium specs can’t get away running 2 damage sets reliably. When it comes to mobility, heavy has the advantage as well. While medium builds can have a faster peak movement speed, heavy builds are less encumbered by roots and snares. This also makes their sustain better as shuffle is very expensive, and you can easily hit regen numbers close to medium builds in heavy while having more effective heavy attacks
In practice, heavy stam builds have more survivability, more sustain, more mobility, and similar damage to medium. One of the biggest oversights in the game imo and one that is thankfully being addressed in the imminent future.10 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeifErickson wrote: »
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
It has much more of neither in practice. Medium and heavy armor builds are comparable in damage because most medium specs can’t get away running 2 damage sets reliably. When it comes to mobility, heavy has the advantage as well. While medium builds can have a faster peak movement speed, heavy builds are less encumbered by roots and snares. This also makes their sustain better as shuffle is very expensive, and you can easily hit regen numbers close to medium builds in heavy while having more effective heavy attacks
In practice, heavy stam builds have more survivability, more sustain, more mobility, and similar damage to medium. One of the biggest oversights in the game imo and one that is thankfully being addressed in the imminent future.
This.
Medium armor and Heavy armor are not well balanced at all.
Medium armor is BiS only with cloakrollerblade. Every other stam class are better with heavy.
People saying LA have the same tankiness that HA because of Harness/Dampen just doesn't know what they speak about.
Only magsorc really benefit from harness. A templar, dk, warden and now even NB can do better without harness/dampen. These can use healing ward verywell, but it's not about LA.3 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeifErickson wrote: »
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
It has much more of neither in practice. Medium and heavy armor builds are comparable in damage because most medium specs can’t get away running 2 damage sets reliably. When it comes to mobility, heavy has the advantage as well. While medium builds can have a faster peak movement speed, heavy builds are less encumbered by roots and snares. This also makes their sustain better as shuffle is very expensive, and you can easily hit regen numbers close to medium builds in heavy while having more effective heavy attacks
In practice, heavy stam builds have more survivability, more sustain, more mobility, and similar damage to medium. One of the biggest oversights in the game imo and one that is thankfully being addressed in the imminent future.
This.
Medium armor and Heavy armor are not well balanced at all.
Medium armor is BiS only with cloakrollerblade. Every other stam class are better with heavy.
People saying LA have the same tankiness that HA because of Harness/Dampen just doesn't know what they speak about.
Only magsorc really benefit from harness. A templar, dk, warden and now even NB can do better without harness/dampen. These can use healing ward verywell, but it's not about LA.
healing ward is a shield
Aka, best with light armor couse cost reduction. Using ward in heavy it's like punching yourself repetetly to the face with a adamantine objectI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeifErickson wrote: »
But medium is much more mobile than heavy and much higher damage. Heavy has no mobility or damage passives while medium has both.
It has much more of neither in practice. Medium and heavy armor builds are comparable in damage because most medium specs can’t get away running 2 damage sets reliably. When it comes to mobility, heavy has the advantage as well. While medium builds can have a faster peak movement speed, heavy builds are less encumbered by roots and snares. This also makes their sustain better as shuffle is very expensive, and you can easily hit regen numbers close to medium builds in heavy while having more effective heavy attacks
In practice, heavy stam builds have more survivability, more sustain, more mobility, and similar damage to medium. One of the biggest oversights in the game imo and one that is thankfully being addressed in the imminent future.
This.
Medium armor and Heavy armor are not well balanced at all.
Medium armor is BiS only with cloakrollerblade. Every other stam class are better with heavy.
People saying LA have the same tankiness that HA because of Harness/Dampen just doesn't know what they speak about.
Only magsorc really benefit from harness. A templar, dk, warden and now even NB can do better without harness/dampen. These can use healing ward verywell, but it's not about LA.
healing ward is a shield
Aka, best with light armor couse cost reduction. Using ward in heavy it's like punching yourself repetetly to the face with a adamantine object
Healing ward is even more powerfull in heavy because of healing passive. If people don't use it it's because they have better heals, like HoTD, Dark cloak or just HoT stacking.
Saying LA is balanced because of restoration staff is just stupid. Everyone can use a resto staff, and healing ward isn't dependant of LA to be effective.
Cost reduction isn't an argument. Every skills are cheaper in LA, but it doesn't make them better than in Heavy. Having more armor and more healing passive is better than having a shield.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Heavy armour vs. Light Armour is roughly a 9% trade-off between damage taken/damage done. At least on my magplar, that's the % I keep coming up with.
They're changing Light/Med with Murkmire(or so it sounds like, at least).
Less. A snipe does 5k on heavy. 7k on light armor
My destro does twice the damage in light then in heavy
The damage/tank tradeoff for heavy it's unfair. They should buff the hell out heavy armor tank.
Yeah, right... I'm lucky to do above 3k damage with Asylum Snipes (i.e. highest dmg non-ultimate that can hit you) on a heavy armor tanktard.
Also you're not counting the extra healing you receive in heavy armor, which is another very big upside to it as it'd take thousands of weapon dmg* to make up for that in medium.
It's no secret Fury+7Th+Troll King is the most overperforming setup by far in the game currently, and even on a magicka build that has access to lots of heals I'd go heavy any day of the week.
*Depends on how much you have at the beginning.... high weapon dmg/stamina=small percentage increase to healing when you increase it further, where as 8% Healing Received is 8% Healing ReceivedEdited by DDuke on September 15, 2018 11:16AM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Also to the people saying heavy armor is a big sacrifice in damage... it isn't.
For medium:
12% weapon damage (applies to weapon damage before % modifiers): 480~, if you weapon damage is around 4k'ish after weapon dmg enchant = +5,76%~ damage
+7,5% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
For light armor:
4884 Penetration [Best Case Scenario: +7,4% Dmg] (useless vs Dmg Shields)
+10% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
That's what you have to weigh against:
3856 mitigation (5,8% less damage taken) compared to medium
and
4554 Spell Resistance (6,9% less damage taken) & 6006 (9,1% less damage taken) compared to light armor
+
8% more healing received
+10% health
...which actually allow you to keep damaging people without ever having to spend time spamming shields or dodge rolls.
I.e. you actually get to deal damage in heavy, while medium & light would be stuck spamming defensive skills.4 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also to the people saying heavy armor is a big sacrifice in damage... it isn't.
For medium:
12% weapon damage (applies to weapon damage before % modifiers): 480~, if you weapon damage is around 4k'ish after weapon dmg enchant = +5,76%~ damage
+7,5% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
For light armor:
4884 Penetration [Best Case Scenario: +7,4% Dmg] (useless vs Dmg Shields)
+10% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
That's what you have to weigh against:
3856 mitigation (5,8% less damage taken) compared to medium
and
4554 Spell Resistance (6,9% less damage taken) & 6006 (9,1% less damage taken) compared to light armor
+
8% more healing received
+10% health
...which actually allow you to keep damaging people without ever having to spend time spamming shields or dodge rolls.
I.e. you actually get to deal damage in heavy, while medium & light would be stuck spamming defensive skills.
Let's see what light armor gives: Shields, resources, damage
Let's see what medium armor does: A lot of weapon damage, ELUSION, Snare removal, resources
Let's see what heavy armor does: 8% more healing. That's it. Maybe 3k more armor then medium. Which is roughly 2% mitigation.Edited by Skander on September 15, 2018 1:27PMI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Also to the people saying heavy armor is a big sacrifice in damage... it isn't.
For medium:
12% weapon damage (applies to weapon damage before % modifiers): 480~, if you weapon damage is around 4k'ish after weapon dmg enchant = +5,76%~ damage
+7,5% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
For light armor:
4884 Penetration [Best Case Scenario: +7,4% Dmg] (useless vs Dmg Shields)
+10% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
That's what you have to weigh against:
3856 mitigation (5,8% less damage taken) compared to medium
and
4554 Spell Resistance (6,9% less damage taken) & 6006 (9,1% less damage taken) compared to light armor
+
8% more healing received
+10% health
...which actually allow you to keep damaging people without ever having to spend time spamming shields or dodge rolls.
I.e. you actually get to deal damage in heavy, while medium & light would be stuck spamming defensive skills.
Let's see what light armor gives: Shields, resources, damage
Let's see what medium armor does: A lot of weapon damage, ELUSION, Snare removal, resources
Let's see what heavy armor does: 8% more healing. That's it. Maybe 3k more armor then medium. Which is roughly 2% mitigation.
Uhm, I wrote in my post how they compare with each other. 3856 mitigation (5/1/1 heavy vs 5/1/1 medium) is 5,8% less dmg taken and +12% weapon damage is worth around 480~ for high damage medium builds, which translates into 5,76%~ dmg using an average of 1,2% dmg per 100 weapon dmg, but real value differs based on skillcoefficient.
To match 8% healing received from heavy even with just 3,4k base weapon damage it'd take 500 extra weapon damage (as increase from 3440 weapon dmg->3540=1,6% stronger Vigor ticks) - and the more base weapon damage you're able to muster, the stronger 8% Healing Received becomes - to the point of absurdity when you have sets like 7th & Fury easily giving you 5k+ weapon dmg.
If you want to the compare armor skills, then heavy doesn't do badly there either as Immovable can actually be very strong - certainly compared to expensive skills like Shuffle that get eclipsed by Forward Momentum.
Anyone who plays high MMR battlegrounds or watches 1vX videos can tell that heavy armor is the meta currently and downright toxic when you fight people whose health bars won't even budge due to mitigation and all the incoming heal over times.Edited by DDuke on September 15, 2018 2:18PM1 -
Adenoma✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMO, seventh and fury combo pales in comparison to fury and veiled heritance. I can keep pretty constant uptime on heritance between bleeds, direct damage output, and double DOT poisons. The problem with fury and seventh is that it’s difficult to maintain a good stack when someone is on the defensive in a 1v1. I much prefer a mix of fury and heritance which allows you to keep better offensive pressure against both offensive and defensive opponents.
I’m running fury/heritance/troll king on stamblade now, swapping from back bar masters dw with heritance front bar and bone pirate in 5 medium. I do think that one thing that isn’t accounted for in offensive/defensive capacities is the bonus crit of medium armor - although, you get some diminishing returns after you hit 50% crit (which you can also achieve in heavy armor). Heritance also lets me back bar or front bar masters dw for the potent bleed.
I’ve actually preferred back barring dw (and curious for other people’s input) and front bar 2h because you can run infused back bar with rending to constantly proc your weapon damage glyph and keep similar weapon damage. On stamblade I don’t run spin2win or an execute and most of my kills are just dependent on incap-bow proc-suprise attack with rending running rather than any clear execute sequence.Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma2 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also to the people saying heavy armor is a big sacrifice in damage... it isn't.
For medium:
12% weapon damage (applies to weapon damage before % modifiers): 480~, if you weapon damage is around 4k'ish after weapon dmg enchant = +5,76%~ damage
+7,5% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
For light armor:
4884 Penetration [Best Case Scenario: +7,4% Dmg] (useless vs Dmg Shields)
+10% Crit Chance (useless vs Dmg Shields, Impregnable builds etc etc)
That's what you have to weigh against:
3856 mitigation (5,8% less damage taken) compared to medium
and
4554 Spell Resistance (6,9% less damage taken) & 6006 (9,1% less damage taken) compared to light armor
+
8% more healing received
+10% health
...which actually allow you to keep damaging people without ever having to spend time spamming shields or dodge rolls.
I.e. you actually get to deal damage in heavy, while medium & light would be stuck spamming defensive skills.
Let's see what light armor gives: Shields, resources, damage
Let's see what medium armor does: A lot of weapon damage, ELUSION, Snare removal, resources
Let's see what heavy armor does: 8% more healing. That's it. Maybe 3k more armor then medium. Which is roughly 2% mitigation.
Uhm, I wrote in my post how they compare with each other. 3856 mitigation (5/1/1 heavy vs 5/1/1 medium) is 5,8% less dmg taken and +12% weapon damage is worth around 480~ for high damage medium builds, which translates into 5,76%~ dmg using an average of 1,2% dmg per 100 weapon dmg, but real value differs based on skillcoefficient.
To match 8% healing received from heavy even with just 3,4k base weapon damage it'd take 500 extra weapon damage (as increase from 3440 weapon dmg->3540=1,6% stronger Vigor ticks) - and the more base weapon damage you're able to muster, the stronger 8% Healing Received becomes - to the point of absurdity when you have sets like 7th & Fury easily giving you 5k+ weapon dmg.
If you want to the compare armor skills, then heavy doesn't do badly there either as Immovable can actually be very strong - certainly compared to expensive skills like Shuffle that get eclipsed by Forward Momentum.
Anyone who plays high MMR battlegrounds or watches 1vX videos can tell that heavy armor is the meta currently and downright toxic when you fight people whose health bars won't even budge due to mitigation and all the incoming heal over times.
Sounds good, doesn't work
Immovable is pityful. Then again, you should try heavy since i see you running everything but heavy.
Get a magicka toon, run it on heavy and light with the same sets and skills.
Light oushines heavy by a mileI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations3 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mangeli200194 wrote: »Unfortunately as long as heavy for stam remains equally mobile/damaging whilst also tankier than med, it won't be buffed.
Imo heavy should be slower but more tanky, because currently with bleeds/defiled and the like, shields+light based are comparable for survival/mobility with better damage for mag classes, its a no brainer.
Mag heavy can't get the speed, nor the damage, so raw tankiness means little. This is why the majority of the mag in pvp run light. (Every non heal bot meta build is light.)
They need to add wrath back, and tone down the stam sets, or tone down stam mobility and incorporate mag sets.
@ak_pvp You know that mobility for stamina is what shields are for magica????
They just need to add some snare immunity ability to mages guild or something.
the damage from heavy armor comes with 90% of stam builds from sets like, 7th legion, fury those sets need some adjusting.
That and DboS stacking....
Shield builds are limited to light, so mobility (to the current super high levels) should be limited to med. FM and the like however makes you completely immune to the only counter to speed (albiet a too strong counter) and hurts only slower builds.
Having heavy stam lose mobility will actually put heavy in check, and imo people will realize better how weak stand your ground is.
@DDuke
Comparing stats isn't really the best way to measure up. Heavy is pure tonk armour, it only beats med because its easy for stam to get high speed/damage in it. It isn't for mag, the majority of non healbot mag is in light, a lot in shields too. The values you mention are a bit off since total mitigation has other factors.
Its heavy attack sustain buff is useless on mag since staff HAs are easily stopped.
Resistance is hit a lot by the common bleed build especially in noCP.
Defiles are still too strong for non templars, one sniper and you are permadefiled easily, and the way that defiles work multiplicative cut into it.
Meanwhile, LA passives can be mitigated by shields, but still works to the majority of the game, a single build won't nearly halve your passives in light since damage is per target. (obv)
Shuffle is a great ability even if eclipsed by FM, it matches wings, though evasion ends up being rather redundant on a roll/cloaking/LOSing build.
Harness is obviously great, and is basically what makes shield stacking to potent.
Immovable, not at all, it has little use for its cost, and is eclipsed by other armour buffs.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In my experience heavy is far superior to medium, no contest. For magicka though both heavy and light are on par and situationally useful.
The problem with heavy is that you can too easily cover the weaknesses it's supposed to have via speed, mobility, and damage.
Funny story, I fought a stamsorc in IC a few days ago who seemed to be wearing the classic Troll + Fury + Seventh (can't know for sure) - I put heavy damage into him for 12-15 seconds, clearly controlling the fight, bursting him hard twice. Anyone guess what happened next?
Immediate 1-shot from Dawnbreaker + Implosion with a sprinkle of Hurricane.
Not a vampire, and wearing Leki's at the time. IMO that kind of damage shouldn't be possible while being so survivable. This is also one of the reasons build diversity really sucks in this meta and skilled play doesn't mean much anymore.4 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭In my experience heavy is far superior to medium, no contest. For magicka though both heavy and light are on par and situationally useful.
The problem with heavy is that you can too easily cover the weaknesses it's supposed to have via speed, mobility, and damage.
Funny story, I fought a stamsorc in IC a few days ago who seemed to be wearing the classic Troll + Fury + Seventh (can't know for sure) - I put heavy damage into him for 12-15 seconds, clearly controlling the fight, bursting him hard twice. Anyone guess what happened next?
Immediate 1-shot from Dawnbreaker + Implosion with a sprinkle of Hurricane.
Not a vampire, and wearing Leki's at the time. IMO that kind of damage shouldn't be possible while being so survivable. This is also one of the reasons build diversity really sucks in this meta and skilled play doesn't mean much anymore.
Yes but magsorc is op.
Nerf magsorc.
Buff nightblades.
Maybe nerf DK a bit too.1 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IMO, seventh and fury combo pales in comparison to fury and veiled heritance. I can keep pretty constant uptime on heritance between bleeds, direct damage output, and double DOT poisons. The problem with fury and seventh is that it’s difficult to maintain a good stack when someone is on the defensive in a 1v1. I much prefer a mix of fury and heritance which allows you to keep better offensive pressure against both offensive and defensive opponents.
I’m running fury/heritance/troll king on stamblade now, swapping from back bar masters dw with heritance front bar and bone pirate in 5 medium. I do think that one thing that isn’t accounted for in offensive/defensive capacities is the bonus crit of medium armor - although, you get some diminishing returns after you hit 50% crit (which you can also achieve in heavy armor). Heritance also lets me back bar or front bar masters dw for the potent bleed.
I’ve actually preferred back barring dw (and curious for other people’s input) and front bar 2h because you can run infused back bar with rending to constantly proc your weapon damage glyph and keep similar weapon damage. On stamblade I don’t run spin2win or an execute and most of my kills are just dependent on incap-bow proc-suprise attack with rending running rather than any clear execute sequence.
@Adenoma I've been running Veiled on my heavy Stamblade ever since DBones, and have always preferred it over the other meta heavy sets. I build primarily with no-CP in mind, so Fury doesn't perform (I use BP instead). And 7th doesn't really complement the playstyle of Stamblade, since the idea is to avoid damage during your defensive windows. Also, since Summerset it's been exclusively Veiled for me, since I like my Master axes on the backbar as well, and Veiled is the only option that reliably procs when running it as a single-bar.
But yeah, I find backbar the optimal place for Master DW right now—5/5/2 on the frontbar is just too good despite the weaker passives on 2H.
Next patch will be interesting though, assuming all Arena weps get that 1pc stat bonus (and the signs seem to indicate they will). Master DW frontbar + 3pc agility jewelry will be viable and I'm looking forward to trying it. Guess we'll find out on PTS tomorrow.Edited by TheYKcid on September 16, 2018 11:29AMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0