Would it be cool if Warden bears can apply taunt (if not applied already)?

Lyserus · September 2018

Bear was a huge hype factor when warden introduced, but I really don't see many players using them, while they might do a decent damage, sacrifing 2 ult slots might not worth it

Something new and unique should be given to bears, like a new taunt

Make one of the morphed bear ability (after summon) a low ult cost ability, and will apply taunt when used like tanks, but if the mob is already taunted, it won't apply the taunt and give mob the immunity; Similarly, when a tank apply taunt to a mob taunting by bear, the taunt will be switch to the tank

EDIT: And honestly, the bear should be respawning on all morphs, I mean it's an ult, it's not supposed to be only on par with sorc pets

Soleya · September 2018

Mobs can aggro to the bear, but it doesn't currently taunt. It might be too OP if the bear can taunt a boss and then group wouldn't have to worry about tank dying (so in that case the tank could just be a dps instead).

Some reasons why people don't use the bear.

1. It's not reliable, it attacks whatever you heavy attack, so it switches targets often
2. It dies A LOT, especially in places like vMA (argonian behemoth scream kills it)
3. The AI is just plain bad. Best example is stage 8 of vMA it attacks broken shards instead of mobs.
4. Takes up 2 bar slots.
5. The ultimate attack it has, often misses because a mob moves, or bear isn't in range when you cast it, thus wasting the ultimate.
6. It can steal healing from other players

Fixes I would like to see.
- Make the bear invulnerable (in PVE only). Removes the dying issue and stealing health issue.
- Improve AI so it targets more reliably
- Change ultimate attack to a leap or charge so it always hits enemy.

Lysette · September 2018

There can as well be another reason, why the bear is not summoned by every warden at any time. Me, for example, i use the bear, when I think, that I might need a little help or want him to distract the enemy for a little while. My reason for just using the bear in such circumstances is, because he has a tendency to run into any trap there is and engage in combat - if I want or not, so I tend to keep him unsummoned until I really need him.

max_only · September 2018

Soleya wrote: »

Fixes I would like to see.
- Make the bear invulnerable (in PVE only). Removes the dying issue and stealing health issue.
- Improve AI so it targets more reliably
- Change ultimate attack to a leap or charge so it always hits enemy.

Best suggestions.

Op,

Please no taunt on the bear. I’m a Warden tank and I can’t stand pets in dungeons because they are so random, their behavior is not predictable, they don’t prioritize targets.

When I’m solo I use the bear because I have practically negative damage without him. And he’s so cute.

Finviuswe · September 2018

So then it could only be slotted by tanks? Wouldn't that decrease use?

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Soleya wrote: »

Mobs can aggro to the bear, but it doesn't currently taunt. It might be too OP if the bear can taunt a boss and then group wouldn't have to worry about tank dying (so in that case the tank could just be a dps instead).

Some reasons why people don't use the bear.

1. It's not reliable, it attacks whatever you heavy attack, so it switches targets often
2. It dies A LOT, especially in places like vMA (argonian behemoth scream kills it)
3. The AI is just plain bad. Best example is stage 8 of vMA it attacks broken shards instead of mobs.
4. Takes up 2 bar slots.
5. The ultimate attack it has, often misses because a mob moves, or bear isn't in range when you cast it, thus wasting the ultimate.
6. It can steal healing from other players

Fixes I would like to see.
- Make the bear invulnerable (in PVE only). Removes the dying issue and stealing health issue.
- Improve AI so it targets more reliably
- Change ultimate attack to a leap or charge so it always hits enemy.

Wardens are 100% useless without the bear (it's literally 15% of their already paltry DPS). They don't even come close to meeting group DPS thresholds without it.

As terrible as it is (which is absolutely is), it's still a necessity.

I would start by making it a single bar ability and making it either invulnerable (like you suggested) or removing the cooldown from the re-spawn.

max_only · September 2018

ESO_GOD wrote: »

So then it could only be slotted by tanks? Wouldn't that decrease use?

Tanks don’t use the bear. We have more important ults to use. Warhorn and Permafrost to be exact.

Finviuswe · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

So then it could only be slotted by tanks? Wouldn't that decrease use?

Tanks don’t use the bear. We have more important ults to use. Warhorn and Permafrost to be exact.

I know. I know this very well.

This further compounds this idea making absolutely no sense at all.

Lyserus · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Fixes I would like to see.
- Make the bear invulnerable (in PVE only). Removes the dying issue and stealing health issue.
- Improve AI so it targets more reliably
- Change ultimate attack to a leap or charge so it always hits enemy.

Best suggestions.

Op,

Please no taunt on the bear. I’m a Warden tank and I can’t stand pets in dungeons because they are so random, their behavior is not predictable, they don’t prioritize targets.

When I’m solo I use the bear because I have practically negative damage without him. And he’s so cute.

you do know that using Y key you can control which target they hit/not-to-hit right?

ESO_GOD wrote: »

So then it could only be slotted by tanks? Wouldn't that decrease use?

Like I said, should be in a morph

max_only · September 2018

Lyserus wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Fixes I would like to see.
- Make the bear invulnerable (in PVE only). Removes the dying issue and stealing health issue.
- Improve AI so it targets more reliably
- Change ultimate attack to a leap or charge so it always hits enemy.

Best suggestions.

Op,

Please no taunt on the bear. I’m a Warden tank and I can’t stand pets in dungeons because they are so random, their behavior is not predictable, they don’t prioritize targets.

When I’m solo I use the bear because I have practically negative damage without him. And he’s so cute.

you do know that using Y key you can control which target they hit/not-to-hit right?

ESO_GOD wrote: »

So then it could only be slotted by tanks? Wouldn't that decrease use?

Like I said, should be in a morph

Yes and then I heavy attack and he switches targets. Also, console doesn’t have that luxury.

I don’t really mind if there are pets in dungeons I just roll my eyes and zoom out in case I get a big pet butt in my tanking zone.

Finviuswe · September 2018

Lyserus wrote: »

Like I said, should be in a morph

Ok, my intention is not to devalue the suggestion, because all suggestions like this should be valid.

However, anything that taunts (even if it cannot taunt a target who has already been taunted like you stated), would have to only be used by the tank in the group due to potential complications that may arise otherwise. But, here's the thing. The tank must slot Warhorn. Any serious tank has Warhorn slotted which makes the bear impossible because of it taking up 2 ulti slots. There has been debate that the bear should be changed to only taking up 1 slot, but I am not sure how likely that is to happen. I have no strong opinion on the matter since even if it were changed to requiring one slot, I still wouldn't slot it.

So, in short, if the bear ulti were changed to requiring only 1 ulti slot, this would be a lot easier to get behind.

Gargath · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wardens are 100% useless without the bear (it's literally 15% of their already paltry DPS). They don't even come close to meeting group DPS thresholds without it.

As terrible as it is (which is absolutely is), it's still a necessity.

Honestly it makes me laugh when I read a "Pro Player" trying to convince people that "Wardens are 100% useless without the bear". So many wardens don't use the bear for a reason and still are decent players doing decent damage while buffing group in many ways. I have a single alt with bear and 2 alts without bear. Not top notch but decent. There are many ways to play, with or without the bear.

DanteYoda · September 2018

No... staves are bad enough AI taunting would be a friggin nightmare in dungeons for a tank..

Shraar · September 2018

Beastmasters across Tamriel have learned from the Mok'nathal and have taught their animal companions how to behave.

After summoning your Bear, you have a 0 cost Ultimate called "Redirect" that will immediately cause your bear to focus whatever you have targetted. This does not drain ultimate and has no CD or cast time at all!!!!!!!!!!!

When you have 75 Ultimate, this changes to the current Kill Command except now it also causes your bear to leap at the target if it isn't already in melee range and just like Redirect focus that target.

With these changes, Wild Guardians are renamed Tamed Companions and have lost their nature.

Caelir · September 2018

Instead of having the bear taunt, it would be cool to be able to morph into an armoured bear, greatly enhancing your defensive stats for a limited amount of time. The mechanics are in-game (werewolves), it would only take up one ult slot and there is no buggy AI involved.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Gargath wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wardens are 100% useless without the bear (it's literally 15% of their already paltry DPS). They don't even come close to meeting group DPS thresholds without it.

As terrible as it is (which is absolutely is), it's still a necessity.

Honestly it makes me laugh when I read a "Pro Player" trying to convince people that "Wardens are 100% useless without the bear". So many wardens don't use the bear for a reason and still are decent players doing decent damage while buffing group in many ways. I have a single alt with bear and 2 alts without bear. Not top notch but decent. There are many ways to play, with or without the bear.

I'm not a pro. The warden class is objectively really bad without the bear ultimate. It parses like 20-30% behind the other classes. That number is the same at low or high levels of play.

Wardens also have no buffs on their offensive skills (they need to sacrifice DPS skill slots), further lowering their DPS if they want to fill an off-support role.

Tryxus · September 2018

It would be utterly uncool to have either MagDens (Eternal) or StamDens (Wild) give up their Bear morph, and a large portion of their DPS, because it would otherwise make a huge mess in Dungeons and Trials.

bzz86 · September 2018

This is something 'hunter' could do in WoW, no? I think it would be odd in ESO, not stupid, just odd

Caelir · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I'm not a pro. The warden class is objectively really bad without the bear ultimate. It parses like 20-30% behind the other classes. That number is the same at low or high levels of play.

Wardens also have no buffs on their offensive skills (they need to sacrifice DPS skill slots), further lowering their DPS if they want to fill an off-support role.

Where does this come from? What parse are you even talking about? Afaik, there is not a single objective and extensive DPS list. With a simple youtube search, you can find a warden parsing 53k in this patch. So which class does 75k DPS on a dummy atm?

Joxer61 · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Mobs can aggro to the bear, but it doesn't currently taunt. It might be too OP if the bear can taunt a boss and then group wouldn't have to worry about tank dying (so in that case the tank could just be a dps instead).

Some reasons why people don't use the bear.

1. It's not reliable, it attacks whatever you heavy attack, so it switches targets often
2. It dies A LOT, especially in places like vMA (argonian behemoth scream kills it)
3. The AI is just plain bad. Best example is stage 8 of vMA it attacks broken shards instead of mobs.
4. Takes up 2 bar slots.
5. The ultimate attack it has, often misses because a mob moves, or bear isn't in range when you cast it, thus wasting the ultimate.
6. It can steal healing from other players

Fixes I would like to see.
- Make the bear invulnerable (in PVE only). Removes the dying issue and stealing health issue.
- Improve AI so it targets more reliably
- Change ultimate attack to a leap or charge so it always hits enemy.

Wardens are 100% useless without the bear (it's literally 15% of their already paltry DPS). They don't even come close to meeting group DPS thresholds without it.

As terrible as it is (which is absolutely is), it's still a necessity.

I would start by making it a single bar ability and making it either invulnerable (like you suggested) or removing the cooldown from the re-spawn.

maybe in your meta running elitist award winning speed demon group runs but on a whole, no they are not useless.

rumple9 · September 2018

Just like in LOTRO ...

Callum · September 2018

Caelir wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I'm not a pro. The warden class is objectively really bad without the bear ultimate. It parses like 20-30% behind the other classes. That number is the same at low or high levels of play.

Wardens also have no buffs on their offensive skills (they need to sacrifice DPS skill slots), further lowering their DPS if they want to fill an off-support role.

Where does this come from? What parse are you even talking about? Afaik, there is not a single objective and extensive DPS list. With a simple youtube search, you can find a warden parsing 53k in this patch. So which class does 75k DPS on a dummy atm?

I'd like to see that 53k parse

, personally because im a warden and i'd like to see what the F im doing wrong.

purple-magicb16_ESO · September 2018

The Sloppy Bear

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

Callum wrote: »

Caelir wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I'm not a pro. The warden class is objectively really bad without the bear ultimate. It parses like 20-30% behind the other classes. That number is the same at low or high levels of play.

Wardens also have no buffs on their offensive skills (they need to sacrifice DPS skill slots), further lowering their DPS if they want to fill an off-support role.

Where does this come from? What parse are you even talking about? Afaik, there is not a single objective and extensive DPS list. With a simple youtube search, you can find a warden parsing 53k in this patch. So which class does 75k DPS on a dummy atm?

I'd like to see that 53k parse , personally because im a warden and i'd like to see what the F im doing wrong.

Stileanima if I spelled that correctly has a number of high dps parses with a mag warden.

OP, I agree with most people that the bear should not have a taunt. That's what a tank is for in group settings. Having a taunt on the bear will cause even more issues in a group dungeon or trial. Like others have said the bear can go rogue often and even though it has over 20k in health it does die frequently in certain dungeons and trials. Halls of Fabrication you're better off leaving it at home, especially the last boss.

The bear could use some changes to make it better, but that would further worsen the real issue that wardens crutch on bears for dps. So rather than making the bear stronger, perhaps make the passives better and offer more changes in class skills. If you're a warden tank, that's what the undaunted skill line is for, get the inner fire and go ham on the boss.

Zardayne · September 2018

This was copied from an older post I made on another forum so I thought I'd share the idea here.

I've been doing some thinking about the Bear for awhile. As most of you I hate that it has to be a double barred ultimate. I also hate other things about him such as limited controls (nothing like Wow & Lotro, COH/COV Mastermind class), uselessness in Cyrodiil PVP, and his occasional wigging out/pathfinding. Now this might have been brought up before and and as much as I read the forums I might have missed it but how would wardens like it if the bear was a single bar ultimate and had the bear charge out like from a distance, knock down target, and then fight for 30 sec-1 minute before leaving again? I mean we could then use him more reliably in some situations (Cyrodiil PVP, Boss Fights) while freeing up the other ultimate spot. It would also quiet down all fo the players who *** about our pets in the way at banks and crafting areas. Sorry I can't elaborate further but I'm on break at work and limited on time. Just curious if others think that would be a viable option.

Here's a link to the EQ2 Warden's Summon Wolves clips (Starts at 1:44) that really got me thinking about the temporary summons route. Of course this is an older MMO so it could look even better than this.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=qcAMCy3iPi8

Zardayne · September 2018

Lysette wrote: »

There can as well be another reason, why the bear is not summoned by every warden at any time. Me, for example, i use the bear, when I think, that I might need a little help or want him to distract the enemy for a little while. My reason for just using the bear in such circumstances is, because he has a tendency to run into any trap there is and engage in combat - if I want or not, so I tend to keep him unsummoned until I really need him.

This right here is why I feel maybe a single ult summoned bear that would fight for a short time would be better than lugging him around all of the time when the controls we're give for our pets are abyssal. you could target your foe and hit the ult, bear could charge in from a distance, lay down a knockdown/taunt or whatever, deal some damage for a minute on the target and then additional targets if it dies and then run off. Then we'd also have another ult slot available for whatever.

*EDIT*
Don't get me wrong I enjoy having a pet with me at all times in all of the MMOS I've played I just feel ZOS can't handle pet management too well so this might give them an option. It's better than having to heavy attack to target. That sucks IMO.

Katahdin · September 2018

Taunt on bear = very bad idea

I want a thinking person decide when or if to taunt, not unthinking AI following code

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

Zardayne wrote: »

This was copied from an older post I made on another forum so I thought I'd share the idea here.

I've been doing some thinking about the Bear for awhile. As most of you I hate that it has to be a double barred ultimate. I also hate other things about him such as limited controls (nothing like Wow & Lotro, COH/COV Mastermind class), uselessness in Cyrodiil PVP, and his occasional wigging out/pathfinding. Now this might have been brought up before and and as much as I read the forums I might have missed it but how would wardens like it if the bear was a single bar ultimate and had the bear charge out like from a distance, knock down target, and then fight for 30 sec-1 minute before leaving again? I mean we could then use him more reliably in some situations (Cyrodiil PVP, Boss Fights) while freeing up the other ultimate spot. It would also quiet down all fo the players who *** about our pets in the way at banks and crafting areas. Sorry I can't elaborate further but I'm on break at work and limited on time. Just curious if others think that would be a viable option.

Here's a link to the EQ2 Warden's Summon Wolves clips (Starts at 1:44) that really got me thinking about the temporary summons route. Of course this is an older MMO so it could look even better than this.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qcAMCy3iPi8

So make the bear kinda like the cliff racer and fetcher infection in one? Perhaps the farther the distance the more damage it can do, like a rage build up. Sorta like the 15% damage increase screaming cliff racer has based on distance from target.

I would like a minor beserk on animal companions passive, maybe having 3 or more animal companion skills slotted grants 5% minor beserk to you and allies at all times. I don't believe wardens have a minor beserk?

Zardayne · September 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

Taunt on bear = very bad idea

I want a thinking person decide when or if to taunt, not unthinking AI following code

Yep I agree with that. Without good pet controls taunt should be off the table.