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Pugilism in Tamriel: The State of Unarmed Combat in September 2018

opaj
opaj
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Hi all! I'm by no means an expert (or even journeyman) of game mechanics, but I couldn't find an up-to-date reference on unarmed combat in Elder Scrolls Online, so I tested some things out on the PTS and am posting them to share with the two or three other people who might be interested in.

This is not an idea thread or a request for an unarmed skill line. This is a resource for players who, like me, wish to play an unarmed monk-type character in spite of the fact that they're not very good.

So, in short, here are the things that I tested and what the results were:

Stamina
With recent balance changes to how light/heavy attack damage is calculated, Stamina now plays a significant roll in how hard your unarmed strikes will hit.

Weapon Damage
Weapon damage also still increases unarmed attack damage.

Proc Sets
I tested a small sampling of random proc sets, and they generally behaved as you'd expect. Unarmed attacks can proc melee, physical damage, and light/heavy attack-based procs. This is extremely useful, of course, since proc damage doesn't scale with player weapon damage at all.

I'd also like to note that the oft-overlooked Undaunted Unweaver/Infiltrator 5-piece bonus increases unarmed attack damage. While these sets aren't very good for general use, they might be helpful in some niche unarmed builds.

Weapon Swapping
Since Wolfhunter, you are now able to swap between two unarmed skill bars, or from an equipped bar to an unarmed bar. Woo-hoo!

Off-hand Weapons/Shields
Since Wolfhunter, equipping a weapon or shield in your off-hand will trigger a glitch in which your light and heavy attacks have no animation. You can still fight, but it's like you're punching the enemies with your mind.

Unfortunately, if you actually want the aesthetic of an unarmed brawler, it means going without any weapon or shield stats at all.

Physical Weapon Expert Champion Perk
Unarmed strikes do not get any benefit from this perk. Monks, spend your champion points elsewhere.


Imbue Weapon
The damage from Imbue Weapon does proc from unarmed light/heavy attacks. (This seems obvious, but you never know what weird exceptions you might encounter!)


Enchantments/Poisons
Enchantments and poisons still do not proc if you are fighting unarmed.


I'm sure I'm forgetting to include some of my test results here, as I quite cleverly forgot to write anything down. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.
Edited by opaj on September 13, 2018 4:10AM
  • crazy_catman21
    crazy_catman21
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    @templesus new meta
  • FoolishOptimist
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    What proc sets do you feel fit the theme for your Monk set up? I’m about to roll a Shadow Monk in DnD and it’s got me a little curious to see if I can do an ESO equivalent.

    He’s an acupuncturist so I’d like to see a dagger motif that is modelled after a senbon, a Japanese combat needle similar to a knitting needle in length.
  • opaj
    opaj
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    @FoolishOptimist -- I'm not sure about proc sets for the senbon theme, but I had pretty good results weaving Nightblade's Assassination skills into an unarmed rotation. Those illusory blades are conceptually similar enough, I'd say.

    For my own character, I ultimately landed on a hybrid Akaviri/Goutfang martial artist, so the poison damage in Viper's Sting suited my needs. For monster set, I think Sellistrix is a good fit; the earthquake feels powerful, but it doesn't have any flashy effects that make you think, "Hey, this is some unrelated magic junk."

    I also tried Pillar of Nirn and Hulking Draugr. Pillar of Nirn's visual effect seemed out of place for what I was trying to accomplish, and Hulking Draugr didn't perform quite as well as Viper's Sting. That said, if you're going to make a crazy gimmick build, I think you should choose the proc set that most fits with your character's image. A shadow monk might look good with Sload's Semblance. A straight physical-only monk can probably squeak by with a set that just boosts stats. I am not a mechanics guru, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be in terms of coming up with a "good" unarmed build.

    I was able to hit around 10k DPS against a training dummy by proccing Undaunted Unweaver on my back bar and Viper's Sting on my front bar. Now, 10k DPS isn't much, but considering that I managed it with my character's bare fists, I'm happy with that.

    (Inspired by your question, I tried a parse using both Undaunted Unweaving and Undaunted Infiltrator. The two effects do stack, and they really took my punches to the next level--unfortunately, all of my other skills suffered by the painfully mismatched attribute bonuses, and I lost almost 2k DPS compared to Viper's Sting.)
  • LukosCreyden
    LukosCreyden
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    I like it. Nice work on the testing. Maybe you could try out some challenge runs at some point? Like, solo FG normal or something with the build. That'd be cool to watch!
    Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.
  • opaj
    opaj
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    @LukosCreyden Thanks! I'll try it sometime, but for now my focus will be on more overworld content and adventuring. You see, for my build to work, I'm sacrificing sustain and defense. In exchange, I'm able to deal subpar damage with my bare fists. I'm sure FG1 is soloable with a monk-type character, but I'm not sure if I have the skill to pull it off. =P


    In other news, after a few more parses, I'm finding that Agility jewelry is giving me slightly better results than Undaunted Unweaver. And, unlike with UU, it doesn't require me to juggle a bunch of set bonuses in awkward ways. I'm a bit disappointed, to be honest, 'cause I thought I'd finally found a use for ol' Unweaver.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Haha! 2 skill bars and imbued weapon works with unarmed?! Game changer! I'll be swapping my DK Or to this build then:
    http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=56213
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Minno
    Minno
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    opaj wrote: »
    @FoolishOptimist -- I'm not sure about proc sets for the senbon theme, but I had pretty good results weaving Nightblade's Assassination skills into an unarmed rotation. Those illusory blades are conceptually similar enough, I'd say.

    For my own character, I ultimately landed on a hybrid Akaviri/Goutfang martial artist, so the poison damage in Viper's Sting suited my needs. For monster set, I think Sellistrix is a good fit; the earthquake feels powerful, but it doesn't have any flashy effects that make you think, "Hey, this is some unrelated magic junk."

    I also tried Pillar of Nirn and Hulking Draugr. Pillar of Nirn's visual effect seemed out of place for what I was trying to accomplish, and Hulking Draugr didn't perform quite as well as Viper's Sting. That said, if you're going to make a crazy gimmick build, I think you should choose the proc set that most fits with your character's image. A shadow monk might look good with Sload's Semblance. A straight physical-only monk can probably squeak by with a set that just boosts stats. I am not a mechanics guru, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be in terms of coming up with a "good" unarmed build.

    I was able to hit around 10k DPS against a training dummy by proccing Undaunted Unweaver on my back bar and Viper's Sting on my front bar. Now, 10k DPS isn't much, but considering that I managed it with my character's bare fists, I'm happy with that.

    (Inspired by your question, I tried a parse using both Undaunted Unweaving and Undaunted Infiltrator. The two effects do stack, and they really took my punches to the next level--unfortunately, all of my other skills suffered by the painfully mismatched attribute bonuses, and I lost almost 2k DPS compared to Viper's Sting.)

    Monks in the elder scrolls universe run dodge and shields with bow for stealth hits with an emphasis on draining the stamina of your target.

    I'd run more cc based sets with stat boosts over procs/weird DMG. You are basically a "little tank that could" except you now have imbued weapon for healing/DMG lol
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Kanar
    Kanar
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    Sounds fun. What is base weapon damage with bare hands? Zero?
  • opaj
    opaj
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    @Kanar You get a little weapon damage pre-50 due to level scaling. At max level/CP, yeah, it's zero.

    @Minno That would be more sensible, sure, but there's something satisfying about a fight that leaves my character on the brink of death. :P Aside from our set choices, our builds are actually pretty similar.

    Incidentally, one of my favorite Oblivion playthroughs was exactly the kind of monk you're talking about--bow, stealth, and fists.
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    It’s dead Jim.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Thread Necro:
    - new Might of the lost looks interesting; one block gives you three 30% light attack BUFFS. Needs to be tested if it will let you have the empower from the off bar.
    - automaton buffs light attack damage? if so, worth stacking WD as major brutality increases the WD bonus of automaton.1
    - ravaging might be too low a proc chance to use but same concept as automaton.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Rastafariel
    Rastafariel
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    They need to make an unarmed skill tree.
    A Dragon's Tear has many mystical qualities...
    dragontears.boards.net
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    I really miss my Morrowind Monk. It was brutally weak up until L20/25 or so. But after that, it was on.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
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    I love the fact someone is playing for fun, not meta or max/min.

    I have a hybrid mag and stam character, for fun, and it really is fun!

    Anyway my question is, any chance you can post some stats for DPS, id be really interested to know what kind of damage you are actually putting out.

    & what sets do you wear?
  • opaj
    opaj
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    @Grianasteri

    Unfortunately, my monk still isn't quite level 50, so I can't really comment on DPS or final gear. I reallllllly take my time, and I've got a lot of characters.

    On PTS when I first tested the build out, I was hitting around 10K DPS on the training dummy, self-buffed. Since I wouldn't bring this character into group content, I guess she'll always be self-buffed.

    Since she's a Dragonknight using some poison attacks, I was going to go with 5 pieces of Hunding's, 3 Agility jewelry pieces (all infused with weapon damage enchantments), and 2 Sellistrix for my monster head because I think the proc isn't too out of place. If I was playing a class that did all physical damage (no poison), I'd probably go with Strength of the Automaton instead of Hunding's, as @Minno suggested.
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