Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Your arguments are correct, but your conclusion is flawed. Yes, NB gets fracture and Berserk which certainly help dummy parses, but in the top tier raids, "similar" is just not the correct word to describe the damage between the two classes. The single target DPS is pretty out of line. The AOE from sorc is definitely higher, which might make the numbers look closer than they actually are, but the ST DPS is measurably higher on stamblade.[...]

He does ~12% from ~600k group DPS, do the math...
Sure the StamBlade is the best in the single-target department but it can't even compare itself with the StamSorc when it comes to multi-target. Is this bad? I don't think so. Different classes with different strengths and weaknesses allow us to have a diverse gameplay. Even if the StamSorc is behind in ST, it isn't that far behind of the StamBlade.

The math thing was about the other classes not StamSorc specific. I don't know their setup but with 8 DDs it's ~75k dps and with 9 DDs it's ~67k dps on average. Even if he is on the top, the other classes aren't really that far behind.
And you say it, it's about the average player, and the difference in DPS among average players are negligible. It's not relevant that the NB pulls off much more dps at the upper 1% end.

Facefister wrote: »

The math thing was about the other classes not StamSorc specific. I don't know their setup but with 8 DDs it's ~75k dps and with 9 DDs it's ~67k dps on average. Even if he is on the top, the other classes aren't really that far behind.
And you say it, it's about the average player, and the difference in DPS among average players are negligible. It's not relevant that the NB pulls off much more dps at the upper 1% end.

@Facefister
So you might not realize this, but on those pad 3 Rakkhat burns, its all NBs. Typically 5 stam, and 3 magic, with a sorc acting as the second healer. Total group comp is typically 2 DK tanks (perhaps a warden off tank), 1 templar healer, 1 sorc "healer" (really there for the synergies), 5 Stamblades and 3 mageblades (there for master architect and to do the dirty work, AKA follow any necessary mechanics).

What I am saying is that average players wont notice the difference, because they likely cant execute a NB rotation at that level. That said, in groups going for record scores, it's play NB or GTFO. You might not see a problem, but it sure does give the appearance that balance is way out of whack because even though these groups are small in number, they are far and away the most visible.

I freely admit that I really dont care that much. I will play the meta, and NB is the most fun meta in a while. I gave up being attached to a specific character a long time ago. That said, I recognize why this is an issue. Plenty of groups will attempt to emulate the meta, even if they cant do what the meta groups are doing. That can have the effect of class discrimination even in groups where it probably wont matter to much, which is admittedly bad for the health of the game.

Glurin wrote: »

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Akaviri wrote: »

Although I am a for-fun player. I suspect some people are taking some "metas" too serious, to the point of fighting over small percentages on performances. Surely, some classes might have a higher ceiling on certain situation, but to me, it's role-playing skill that makes a character enjoyable to play and/or team with.

Lmao that’s the spirit champ, don’t let anyone tell you that your 10k dps isn’t enough to rp your way through content. If only there were more like you.

You mock, but he's right. I've personally witnessed people obsess and bicker over two or three percentage DPS differences in content that barely even warrants a third of the damage they were doing. Meanwhile I find I have a whole hell of a lot more fun playing a character I actually enjoy playing rather than strictly following the FotM.

That doesn't mean I'm happily sitting on 10k DPS. I just choose not to obsess myself with doing so much damage that I can one shot trial bosses. Nor do I choose to fly into a murderous rage if others don't do that kind of damage either.

Here’s your participation trophy!

To those in the thread who're saying "it only matters for those pushing for scores", "only 1% of players can achieve that damage" and "if you're not on the top, you won't notice the difference" - you're technically correct, but there's also a caveat of the problem lying in psychological plane too.

To illustrate, I'll go ad absurdum and invite you to imagine: what if female characters had, say, 50 weapon and spell damage less by design? Just like that. Not a huge amount, barely noticeable, easily made up for with skill unless you're at the very top, enough to do all content, but... really? Everyone would be okay with it?

I hope it's illustrative enough.

With classes and races, it's essentially the same. It's a roleplaying game. People play roles; they play knights, assasins, mages, paladins; they play reptiles and felines, pointy-eared elves and bearded vikings. Not everyone can abstract away and ignore the fact that their character is impaired from get-go. And it's not the actual performance that matters - it's the potential. A player may not think of endgame and scores now, but in three or six or nine months, he may want to try, he will want to excel - and it's mentally taxing to level a character the player really likes with knowledge that there's no excellence afoot. You chose knight archetype hoping to deal damage? Bad luck: sneaky assassin is better at standing in fight and dishing it out. You chose an orc to be your champion in fight? Redguard will always be better than you: no matter how hard you try, if you and a redguard will jump equally hard, the redguard will jump higher. You have to struggle for something that another gets by birthright. You want to run with what you enjoy, but you're under constant pressure from the knowledge that if you'll ever decide to enter the heaven of excellence, the gatekeeper will close the gate before you. Because you have tail and claws. Because you're not master race with dark skin and pointy ears. Because you're druid and not an assassin. This knowledge is a burden, and not everyone can carry it. In the past, such inequality gave birth to revolutions; in ESO, people would just be leaving to find a better game that doesn't make them feel second-class citizens for the sin of staying true to themselves.

It's really not helping that diversity of races and classes isn't matching the diversity of roles in the game. In the fairy world that probably exists nowhere but in the minds of developers, everything has an important role that cannot be replaced. Khajiits and bosmer helping to hit highest scores by sneaking around in dungeons. Nord tanks pushing groups up the leaderboards through their superb survivability. But in reality, there's nothing more important in ESO than damage. Whole game is one big DPS race. Diversity is an illusion: there are 'incorrect' choices that don't map onto gameplay.

Bottom line, the very existence of meta erodes the game and makes it less enjoyable, whether it immediately affects the player or not. And it's only exacerbating things when meta is so prominently ahead in every aspect (toolkit / support / healing / damage / interesting mechanics and scaling with player skill / suitability for all kinds of content / ...). That's why "but you still can clear all content" and "only 1% will feel it" are weak arguments - it's little consolation to explain people that it's really okay that they've decided to born inferior to others, and that they won't feel the difference just as long as they don't attempt to stop being peasants.

So where was I? Oh yes, I was about to stop ranting. ^^ Stopping right here. ^^