Improving One Tamriel - Veteran Zones/Contents

joaaocaampos · September 2018

There's no doubt that One Tamriel was the best update so far. I know there are some other players who prefer an old item level system. BTW. That was one of the big reasons I left WoW (in early 2017). Everything I did during the expansion was useless, in vain. There is no expansion there, as the game decreases with each new update. Systems are removed when a new "expansion" is live. Anyway, it's not about WoW that I came here to talk about.

ESO good points that make me love the game:

One Tamriel and the maximum gear cap of CP 160.
Champion Points - even though some people hate it. Comparing with other MMORPGs, it's the best system! You don't have to buy a DLC or Chapter to increase your CP - that's wonderful!
Fully PvE zones. PvP zones must be separate and optional.

Negative points

There is no overland challenge.
Rewards.

And when I say "rewards," I'm not talking about powerful sets. I play ESO, not WoW or FFXIV.

I loved One Tamriel, but I think players need more challenges! Craglorn's biggest problem is reward - and the instanced group contents. I would like to see, for example, a "Public" Group Delve, rather than a Group Delve. That is, I want to meet other players while exploring the place. In addition, I want a satisfactory reward. Increased XP and gold at least!

How will these Veteran Zones work? Will they be separate and exclusive, like Craglorn? Or will the same zone have its own "Normal" and "Veteran" version?

Editing, and based on feedback, I have a better suggestion:

Instead of separating zones into Normal and Veteran, ZeniMax could mix the two contents in the same map!

Normal contents

Solo Quest Hubs
6 Delves
6 Group Boss
2 Public Dungeons
3 (not 6) Dolmens/Geysers

Veteran contents

Group Quest Hubs (not instanced, "Public", where you can also find other players)
3 Group Camps (like the Craglorn camps - Inazzur's Hold, Thunder Falls Camp and Taborra's Camp)
2 Group Delves (not instanced, "Public", where you can also find other players)
1 Trial-level Group Boss (with a different symbol)

Just like in Craglorn, there will be a warning telling you when you enter into a veteran content. "ENTERING GROUP AREA." New players may think "I'm not going to get in here now" or "I'll wait for another player" or "I'll come back later when I get stronger." ESO favors this system. You can do that content after a few months, nothing will be outdated. I would like to see many overland content like this, with the warning and the "+" symbol next to it, but as I said above, I want to go in there alone and meet other players (no limited to premade groups).

Talking about the rewards, especially the daily rewards, ZeniMax could separate between blue (Normal) and purple (Veteran) rewards.

Lastly, ZeniMax can create PvP areas. "ENTERING PVP AREA". There will be World PvP and no factions limiting things. You are free to attack anyone. It could be a coliseum, or another place, with some daily quest about killing other players.

These are my suggestions. What do you think?

CyberOnEso · September 2018

Okay, firstly I think the negatives you address are an issue and I completely agree with you there. However, I think your solution has some flaws.

1. You will split the population and make it so the vet players and the new players never really see each other, this will leave one of the two instances barren of players.
2. You will 'reintroduce' some of the issues one tamriel was implemented to fix where players can't easily group together (I.e. If a vet player and a new player group together, the new player will get rekt whilst the vet player will just one shot the bosses.)
4. There will be some potential back end issues with guild traders and other 'stuff' not being properly synced across the maps.

In my opinion there is a simpler solution, with the next chapter you make the overland content just harder and apply a stronger proportional buff to players level 1 - 779. In my opinion this buff should be strong enough so that as you level from 1-779 your stats get weaker, however that is offset by lack of skills/ lack of player experience. This should create content that is hard enough for the vet players to enjoy doing whilst also making lower leveled players be able to complete the content. And allowing for a vet player to group with a brand new player and not have the vet player one shoting the bosses and the new player getting rekt.

mateosalvaje · September 2018

It would be ideal for me if the normal/veteran toggle we already have could apply to overland content and delves

joaaocaampos · September 2018

CyberOnEso wrote: »

1. You will split the population and make it so the vet players and the new players never really see each other, this will leave one of the two instances barren of players.
2. You will 'reintroduce' some of the issues one tamriel was implemented to fix where players can't easily group together (I.e. If a vet player and a new player group together, the new player will get rekt whilst the vet player will just one shot the bosses.)
3. There will be some potential back end issues with guild traders and other 'stuff' not being properly synced across the maps.

These three points are super valid! I agree with you, it makes sense!

CyberOnEso wrote: »

In my opinion there is a simpler solution, with the next chapter you make the overland content just harder and apply a stronger proportional buff to players level 1 - 779. In my opinion this buff should be strong enough so that as you level from 1-779 your stats get weaker, however that is offset by lack of skills/ lack of player experience. This should create content that is hard enough for the vet players to enjoy doing whilst also making lower leveled players be able to complete the content. And allowing for a vet player to group with a brand new player and not have the vet player one shoting the bosses and the new player getting rekt.

I just didn't like the solution. In that case, you are expanding One Tamriel beyond the CP 160 gear cap. Scaling is going from gear to CP itself. This is weird.

mateosalvaje · September 2018

I think the reason Craglorn didn't work as a veteran area before, is because it was too soon. These days, there are a lot more people running around at max level.

CyberOnEso · September 2018

CyberOnEso wrote: »

In my opinion there is a simpler solution, with the next chapter you make the overland content just harder and apply a stronger proportional buff to players level 1 - 779. In my opinion this buff should be strong enough so that as you level from 1-779 your stats get weaker, however that is offset by lack of skills/ lack of player experience. This should create content that is hard enough for the vet players to enjoy doing whilst also making lower leveled players be able to complete the content. And allowing for a vet player to group with a brand new player and not have the vet player one shoting the bosses and the new player getting rekt.

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I just didn't like the solution. In that case, you are expanding One Tamriel beyond the CP 160 gear cap. Scaling is going from gear to CP itself. This is weird.

Yeah, although I don't think I explained myself fully. My general idea was to have people have a really strong buff from level 1-50, a slightly strong buff from cp 1-160 and a weak buff from CP 160-779. So that all players would experience similar difficulty with content (A bit like skyrim did scaling) so that you wouldn't have people who's stats made them too powerful for certain overland enemies or too weak to clear certain overland enemies.

Having the scaling go into CP would make it so players at the top CP wouldn't differ so much in power from those at a lower CP, so that content could be scaled in order for players not to feel overpowered at max CP.

joaaocaampos · September 2018

CyberOnEso wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I just didn't like the solution. In that case, you are expanding One Tamriel beyond the CP 160 gear cap. Scaling is going from gear to CP itself. This is weird.

Yeah, although I don't think I explained myself fully. My general idea was to have people have a really strong buff from level 1-50, a slightly strong buff from cp 1-160 and a weak buff from CP 160-779. So that all players would experience similar difficulty with content (A bit like skyrim did scaling) so that you wouldn't have people who's stats made them too powerful for certain overland enemies or too weak to clear certain overland enemies.

Got it! But you have not convinced me yet. This is an expanded Tamriel One. The game (in fact, the player) is scaled from lvl 3 to CP 160. The system would only be expanding to the CP 300 or 600, for example.

After all, it would be interesting.

Another suggestion I thought now is: instead of separating zones into Normal and Veteran, ZeniMax could mix the two contents in the same instance. I don't know if this is possible, but...

In the same zone we would have:

Normal contents

Solo quest hubs
6 Delves
6 Group Boss
2 Public Dungeons
3 (not 6) Dolmens/Geysers

Veteran contents

Some veteran quest hubs
1 or 3 Public Group Delves
1 or 3 Trial-level Group Boss

CyberOnEso · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Another suggestion I thought now is: instead of separating zones into Normal and Veteran, ZeniMax could mix the two contents in the same instance. I don't know if this is possible, but...

In the same zone we would have:

Normal contents
Solo quest hubs

6 Delves

6 Group Boss

2 Public Dungeons

3 (not 6) Dolmens/Geysers

Veteran contents
Some veteran quest hubs

1 or 3 Public Group Delves

1 or 3 Trial-level Group Boss

This I really like, and can get behind though, I don't know what others would think.
My only 'issue' with it is that it may be a bit weird for a player to suddenly go from one shotting everything to entering a part of the zone with the vet content. However as long as this is indicated by the screen center notification (like in craglorn upon entering Spellscar) then it is a non- issue.

Katahdin · September 2018

mateosalvaje wrote: »

It would be ideal for me if the normal/veteran toggle we already have could apply to overland content and delves

You realize the normal/vet toggle creates totally seperate instances of each dungeon/trial. We dont have normal/vet delves.

The only way an over land toggle will work is if the character gets nerfed when activating the vet toggle, making the current content harder for you but not harder for someone on normal.

mateosalvaje · September 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

mateosalvaje wrote: »

It would be ideal for me if the normal/veteran toggle we already have could apply to overland content and delves

You realize the normal/vet toggle creates totally seperate instances of each dungeon/trial. We dont have normal/vet delves.

The only way an over land toggle will work is if the character gets nerfed when activating the vet toggle, making the current content harder for you but not harder for someone on normal.

Aren't there multiple instances all the time? Yes. Yes there are.

joaaocaampos · September 2018

CyberOnEso wrote: »

This I really like, and can get behind though, I don't know what others would think.
My only 'issue' with it is that it may be a bit weird for a player to suddenly go from one shotting everything to entering a part of the zone with the vet content. However as long as this is indicated by the screen center notification (like in craglorn upon entering Spellscar) then it is a non- issue.

Exactly! "ENTERING GROUP AREA." New players may think "I'm not going to get in here now" or "I'll wait for another player" or "I'll come back later when I get stronger." ESO favors this system. You can do that content after a few months, nothing will be outdated.

I would like to see many overland content like this, with the warning and the "+" symbol next to it, but the most important thing is not to limit things. That's why I'm calling it "Public Group Delves" instead of "Group Delves". I want to go in there alone and meet other players. This applies to content such as Group Delves, Spellscar, Skyreach etc.

Talking about the rewards, especially the daily rewards, ZeniMax could separate between blue (Normal) and purple (Veteran) rewards.

Editing ... ZeniMax could make a slight change. Something like "ENTERING VETERAN AREA", symbolizing that it will be something other than Craglorn. In addition, there may be areas where there is open PvP. And the warning will be "ENTERING PVP AREA". It can be a coliseum where you can freely confront anyone, including your own faction. There may be some daily quest about killing other players.

joaaocaampos · September 2018

@CyberOnEso Oh, I remember hearing recently from Matt Firor that there are changes planned for One Tamriel. He didn't give any details, but surely there will be changes in the future.

Jayman1000 · September 2018

The game needs to be easy and accessible for the players that really are challenged in their playstyle. If you increase difficulty they will probably quit in despair. And then they wont spend cash on crowns for crates.

joaaocaampos · September 2018

Jayman1000 wrote: »

The game needs to be easy and accessible for the players that really are challenged in their playstyle. If you increase difficulty they will probably quit in despair. And then they wont spend cash on crowns for crates.

I'm not proposing to make the game impossible. There is content for everyone. The difficulty present in the DLCs and Chapters will remain the same. Veteran contents should be optional, for those who are able to do.

fojo82 · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

There's no doubt that One Tamriel was the best update so far. I know there are some other players who prefer an old item level system. BTW. That was one of the big reasons I left WoW (in early 2017). Everything I did during the expansion was useless, in vain. There is no expansion there, as the game decreases with each new update. Systems are removed when a new "expansion" is live. Anyway, it's not about WoW that I came here to talk about.

ESO good points that make me love the game:
One Tamriel and the maximum gear cap of CP 160.

Champion Points - even though some people hate it. Comparing with other MMORPGs, it's the best system! You don't have to buy a DLC or Chapter to increase your CP - that's wonderful!

Fully PvE zones. PvP zones must be separate and optional.

I know there are other good points, but for now that's it.

Negative points
There is no overland challenge.

Rewards.

And when I say "rewards," I'm not talking about powerful sets. I play ESO, not WoW or FFXIV. Even when some players ask for new Classes and Races (instead of Skill Lines).

I loved One Tamriel, but I think players need more challenges! With the CP, we can face powerful monsters without the need to increase gear cap. We don't need to get stronger - we need tougher challenges! Content for veterans (CP 300 or 600+). But I'm not talking about Dungeons, Trials and Arenas. I'm talking about general content.

Craglorn's biggest problem is reward - and the instanced group contents. I would like to see, for example, a Public Group Delve, rather than a Group Delve. That is, I want to meet other players while exploring a challenging delve. In addition, I want a satisfactory reward. Increased XP and gold at least!

The important point is: How will these veteran zones work? Are they separate and exclusive, like Craglorn? Or will the same zone have its own "Normal" and "Veteran" version?

What I would like to say to ZeniMax is: There is no need to change what we already have. On the other hand, you can add new content, systems and rewards!

Based on what I said, I could exemplify:
"In the next Chapter, the zone will have a Normal and Veteran version. If it works, we will bring this system to all Tamriel zones!"

Or... "In the next Chapter, you will have two new zones, instead of one! A Normal zone, as everyone is accustomed to, and a Veteran zone! Although the Veteran zone is smaller (Artaeum size), it will be challenging and full of new rewards! You can hardly wait!"

These are just ideas. For the future, maybe. The important thing is to take new paths.

P.S.: For PvP lovers, these ideas can be expanded. Players could choose between playing in Normal, Veteran or PvP level zones.

What do you think? What can be added?

Couldn't have said it better myself, I agree

Wifeaggro13 · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

There's no doubt that One Tamriel was the best update so far. I know there are some other players who prefer an old item level system. BTW. That was one of the big reasons I left WoW (in early 2017). Everything I did during the expansion was useless, in vain. There is no expansion there, as the game decreases with each new update. Systems are removed when a new "expansion" is live. Anyway, it's not about WoW that I came here to talk about.

ESO good points that make me love the game:
One Tamriel and the maximum gear cap of CP 160.

Champion Points - even though some people hate it. Comparing with other MMORPGs, it's the best system! You don't have to buy a DLC or Chapter to increase your CP - that's wonderful!

Fully PvE zones. PvP zones must be separate and optional.

I know there are other good points, but for now that's it.

Negative points
There is no overland challenge.

Rewards.

And when I say "rewards," I'm not talking about powerful sets. I play ESO, not WoW or FFXIV. Even when some players ask for new Classes and Races (instead of Skill Lines).

I loved One Tamriel, but I think players need more challenges! With the CP, we can face powerful monsters without the need to increase gear cap. We don't need to get stronger - we need tougher challenges! Content for veterans (CP 300 or 600+). But I'm not talking about Dungeons, Trials and Arenas. I'm talking about general content.

Craglorn's biggest problem is reward - and the instanced group contents. I would like to see, for example, a Public Group Delve, rather than a Group Delve. That is, I want to meet other players while exploring a challenging delve. In addition, I want a satisfactory reward. Increased XP and gold at least!

The important point is: How will these veteran zones work? Are they separate and exclusive, like Craglorn? Or will the same zone have its own "Normal" and "Veteran" version?

What I would like to say to ZeniMax is: There is no need to change what we already have. On the other hand, you can add new content, systems and rewards!

Based on what I said, I could exemplify:
"In the next Chapter, the zone will have a Normal and Veteran version. If it works, we will bring this system to all Tamriel zones!"

Or... "In the next Chapter, you will have two new zones, instead of one! A Normal zone, as everyone is accustomed to, and a Veteran zone! Although the Veteran zone is smaller (Artaeum size), it will be challenging and full of new rewards! You can hardly wait!"

These are just ideas. For the future, maybe. The important thing is to take new paths.

P.S.: For PvP lovers, these ideas can be expanded. Players could choose between playing in Normal, Veteran or PvP level zones.

What do you think? What can be added?

Tam one fixed some issues new players were having and opened up the playing field for leveling making it less restrictive. it did nothing for players that have been playing the game long term other then allowing them to level out of zone order.

Now the CP system, on the other hand, is a broken mess .you likely have not been around long enough to see its done more harm then good. the system should have been expanded upon and layered years ago. right now all ti really is , is VR system unlocked so you can buy stuff outside your rolls making you a god with gear and enough points. half the balance issues are because of this broken passive system increase, right now devs are trying to balance abilities and classes of a bad Alternate advancement system. its a monkey humping a football or better yet a serpent eating its tail just like the ESO logo. the overland content issue is a combination of CP and scaling

Katahdin · September 2018

mateosalvaje wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

mateosalvaje wrote: »

It would be ideal for me if the normal/veteran toggle we already have could apply to overland content and delves

You realize the normal/vet toggle creates totally seperate instances of each dungeon/trial. We dont have normal/vet delves.

The only way an over land toggle will work is if the character gets nerfed when activating the vet toggle, making the current content harder for you but not harder for someone on normal.

Aren't there multiple instances all the time? Yes. Yes there are.

The maps have multiple instances when population warrants. I would guess not many zones warrant that these days. However that us completely different than a whole different version of the game with different levels of content.

We had that before 1 tam. There were 3 different versions of the game, when things were faction locked. Ironically they were called "Veteran zones".
Mobs got progressively harder with each map (as you followed each alliance story line). Craglorn was the hardest zone in the game.

The playerbase largely hated it.
You were lucky to see more than 2 or 3 people per map during prime time, thethey were so unpopular.
The only people in Craglorn were nirn farmers

joaaocaampos · September 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

We had that before 1 tam. There were 3 different versions of the game, when things were faction locked. Ironically they were called "Veteran zones".
Mobs got progressively harder with each map (as you followed each alliance story line). Craglorn was the hardest zone in the game.

The playerbase largely hated it.
You were lucky to see more than 2 or 3 people per map during prime time, thethey were so unpopular.
The only people in Craglorn were nirn farmers

Well, my suggestion is not to return to something before One Tamriel. Like I said, I loved One Tamriel. I don't want to split players. So I'll edit my first comment.

joaaocaampos · September 2018

Just to let you know that I've edited the topic, based on the feedback I received. If there are any new and constructive suggestions, I'll be editing again.

Jeremy · September 2018

Adding the option to participate in veteran zones is a good idea. High level characters should be able to have fun while questing too instead of everything (except maybe world bosses) being brain-dead easy.

One Tamriel isn't the problem though. The overland was actually easier before that update - because you out-leveled the zone after a few quests anyway and everything became super easy and didn't even drop items.

As the OP points out - One Tamriel was easily the best change change ever added to this game.

Wifeaggro13 · September 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

Adding the option to participate in veteran zones is a good idea. High level characters should be able to have fun while questing too instead of everything (except maybe world bosses) being brain-dead easy.

One Tamriel isn't the problem though. The overland was actually easier before that update - because you out-leveled the zone after a few quests anyway and everything became super easy and didn't even drop items.

As the OP points out - One Tamriel was easily the best change change ever added to this game.

Tam one is a good attempt at fixing the new player restrictions,its a failure when you add the cp system it would be less intrusive if they re implemented veteran ranks in lieu of this cp system