Can we eliminate the 1 class PvE dps domination for several patch ideology?

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, if you pull similar numbers with those three classes, you dont play NB very well.

Hey man, I basically agree with you about the question of who do you balance around. As for you criticizing my ability to play - was that really necessary? But thanks for that; really brightened my afternoon. Have a nice day!

@Dalsinthus
Hey bud, I am not trying to criticize, I am just calling what I see. You listed 3 classes, and said they all pull within 1-2k of one another when you play them. If that is true, you are either not all that great at stamblade or mindblowingly good at the other two. Hard to say this and not sound like an ass, but I am guessing it's not the later.

I really didnt mean it as an attack, and really do apologize if it came off that way. You are in the same boat as most of the people on the forums, and it really illustrated the point I was trying to make. The vast majority of the player base is just not going to perceive the DPS gap that exists among classes as those that are breaking world records, because they simply cant perform the rotation at that level.

NB (due largely in part to how merciless/relentless functions) has a much higher skill threshold than every other class in this game. If you dont have a perfect weave and fire a bow proc every fifth skill, the damage is not going to be that far out of line from other skills like frags, that are much easier to execute. That said, if you can execute it at that level, the damage difference is remarkable. Same goes for a dynamic rotation. If you play NB essentially as a static rotation (i.e. there is a set order to it), it falls in line with other classes in a hurry, but if you can play it dynamically, the gap becomes much more noticable.

NB weakest class atm...please buff NB!
XD

Dalsinthus · September 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, if you pull similar numbers with those three classes, you dont play NB very well.

Hey man, I basically agree with you about the question of who do you balance around. As for you criticizing my ability to play - was that really necessary? But thanks for that; really brightened my afternoon. Have a nice day!

@Dalsinthus
Hey bud, I am not trying to criticize, I am just calling what I see. You listed 3 classes, and said they all pull within 1-2k of one another when you play them. If that is true, you are either not all that great at stamblade or mindblowingly good at the other two. Hard to say this and not sound like an ass, but I am guessing it's not the later.

I really didnt mean it as an attack, and really do apologize if it came off that way. You are in the same boat as most of the people on the forums, and it really illustrated the point I was trying to make. The vast majority of the player base is just not going to perceive the DPS gap that exists among classes as those that are breaking world records, because they simply cant perform the rotation at that level.

NB (due largely in part to how merciless/relentless functions) has a much higher skill threshold than every other class in this game. If you dont have a perfect weave and fire a bow proc every fifth skill, the damage is not going to be that far out of line from other skills like frags, that are much easier to execute. That said, if you can execute it at that level, the damage difference is remarkable. Same goes for a dynamic rotation. If you play NB essentially as a static rotation (i.e. there is a set order to it), it falls in line with other classes in a hurry, but if you can play it dynamically, the gap becomes much more noticable.

I don't play this game at a level that is competitive with the best of the very best - that's never been my goal. I was fairly imprecise in my original post, which you took me to task for. Fair enough.

One beauty of a game this big is that there are many ways for different people to find fun. With my all three of my dps builds I've been able to finish most DLC dungeon hard modes (haven't had time for the newest dungeons) and whatever other end game pve and pvp content that I've wanted to do. Groups seem happy to have me, people regularly ask me for build and rotation help, and that's been plenty good for me. I was a little surprised to log on and see someone tell me that I "don't play NB very well." That may be true, but it's not holding me back from doing anything that I want to do. Things seem to be going fine and I'm working at getting better.

But I think what we are talking about here is two very different experiences in end game. Mine is admittedly more casual and yours sounds like you're striving to be at the top of the leaderboards. All I was trying to (clumsily) say in my post was that at the level I'm playing - above average (I think) but not approaching the top - the difference between classes is not that apparent. I agree it is at that upper most pinnacle of game play where the differences between classes is going to become most obvious. It's a tough question though for ZoS of who to balance around and I'm sure it would be nice for players like you to have more options in what classes to bring to a raid.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, if you pull similar numbers with those three classes, you dont play NB very well.

Hey man, I basically agree with you about the question of who do you balance around. As for you criticizing my ability to play - was that really necessary? But thanks for that; really brightened my afternoon. Have a nice day!

@Dalsinthus
Hey bud, I am not trying to criticize, I am just calling what I see. You listed 3 classes, and said they all pull within 1-2k of one another when you play them. If that is true, you are either not all that great at stamblade or mindblowingly good at the other two. Hard to say this and not sound like an ass, but I am guessing it's not the later.

I really didnt mean it as an attack, and really do apologize if it came off that way. You are in the same boat as most of the people on the forums, and it really illustrated the point I was trying to make. The vast majority of the player base is just not going to perceive the DPS gap that exists among classes as those that are breaking world records, because they simply cant perform the rotation at that level.

NB (due largely in part to how merciless/relentless functions) has a much higher skill threshold than every other class in this game. If you dont have a perfect weave and fire a bow proc every fifth skill, the damage is not going to be that far out of line from other skills like frags, that are much easier to execute. That said, if you can execute it at that level, the damage difference is remarkable. Same goes for a dynamic rotation. If you play NB essentially as a static rotation (i.e. there is a set order to it), it falls in line with other classes in a hurry, but if you can play it dynamically, the gap becomes much more noticable.

I don't play this game at a level that is competitive with the best of the very best - that's never been my goal. I was fairly imprecise in my original post, which you took me to task for. Fair enough.

One beauty of a game this big is that there are many ways for different people to find fun. With my all three of my dps builds I've been able to finish most DLC dungeon hard modes (haven't had time for the newest dungeons) and whatever other end game pve and pvp content that I've wanted to do. Groups seem happy to have me, people regularly ask me for build and rotation help, and that's been plenty good for me. I was a little surprised to log on and see someone tell me that I "don't play NB very well." That may be true, but it's not holding me back from doing anything that I want to do. Things seem to be going fine and I'm working at getting better.

But I think what we are talking about here is two very different experiences in end game. Mine is admittedly more casual and yours sounds like you're striving to be at the top of the leaderboards. All I was trying to (clumsily) say in my post was that at the level I'm playing - above average (I think) but not approaching the top - the difference between classes is not that apparent. I agree it is at that upper most pinnacle of game play where the differences between classes is going to become most obvious. It's a tough question though for ZoS of who to balance around and I'm sure it would be nice for players like you to have more options in what classes to bring to a raid.

@Dalsinthus

Admittedly, its been a while since I pushed any leaderboard scores. Kids these days are to darn good at mashing buttons. Let me retract my original statement and say, "you dont play NB like LZH or Liko" (if you dont know those names, google their youtube pages and prepare to feel woefully inadequate

). It's okay, most of us dont.

I fall into the category of being able to play NB well enough to realize why and perceive the fact that it is best in slot, but there are people that simply play a different game than the rest of us and take that gap to a whole different level. It is for those people where these differences become so apparent they border on the absurd. Unless your goal is setting world records, this game is far more balanced than most people care to admit. As long as you are having fun, that's all that matters.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, if you pull similar numbers with those three classes, you dont play NB very well.

Hey man, I basically agree with you about the question of who do you balance around. As for you criticizing my ability to play - was that really necessary? But thanks for that; really brightened my afternoon. Have a nice day!

@Dalsinthus
Hey bud, I am not trying to criticize, I am just calling what I see. You listed 3 classes, and said they all pull within 1-2k of one another when you play them. If that is true, you are either not all that great at stamblade or mindblowingly good at the other two. Hard to say this and not sound like an ass, but I am guessing it's not the later.

I really didnt mean it as an attack, and really do apologize if it came off that way. You are in the same boat as most of the people on the forums, and it really illustrated the point I was trying to make. The vast majority of the player base is just not going to perceive the DPS gap that exists among classes as those that are breaking world records, because they simply cant perform the rotation at that level.

NB (due largely in part to how merciless/relentless functions) has a much higher skill threshold than every other class in this game. If you dont have a perfect weave and fire a bow proc every fifth skill, the damage is not going to be that far out of line from other skills like frags, that are much easier to execute. That said, if you can execute it at that level, the damage difference is remarkable. Same goes for a dynamic rotation. If you play NB essentially as a static rotation (i.e. there is a set order to it), it falls in line with other classes in a hurry, but if you can play it dynamically, the gap becomes much more noticable.

NB weakest class atm...please buff NB!
XD

@hedna123b14_ESO
Yeah, they should probably buff the bow proc 20-30%, reduce the cost of soul harvest, and make impale scale at 40%. How do I make a troll face...

NyassaV · September 2018

This problem will always be around since something somewhere will always be the "best"

TequilaFire · September 2018

The problem boils down to a small handful of the player base being able to put up better than average numbers on mNB being held up as an example why a class should be nerfed which is not representative of the majority of players .
In reality that small handful of players even if nerfed will continue to perform well but the average player trying to enjoy the game will suffer and not be able to complete certain content and be discouraged.
Not everyone can or will learn to play at those levels so who is ZOS to balance for, the majority or the few?
If there is such a thing as too much DPS then put a cap on DPS so 70K is not possible by any class.

Vahrokh · September 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

NB (due largely in part to how merciless/relentless functions) has a much higher skill threshold than every other class in this game. If you dont have a perfect weave and fire a bow proc every fifth skill, the damage is not going to be that far out of line from other skills like frags, that are much easier to execute. That said, if you can execute it at that level, the damage difference is remarkable. Same goes for a dynamic rotation. If you play NB essentially as a static rotation (i.e. there is a set order to it), it falls in line with other classes in a hurry, but if you can play it dynamically, the gap becomes much more noticable.

1) What players perceive, is that classes that are already inferior to mag/stam NB get nerfed, while NBs, in every recent expansion, "by pure chance" always have one of their mechanics awesomely benefitting from the new gear sets or new game mechanics.

2) How is it fair, that one class gets "normal mode" and "pro mode" while every other class only get "peasant mode"? Shouldn't all classes give a way to excel, for those who play better? Why if I want to prove I am a superior skill sorc / templar / DK / warden I have to reroll NB?

Gnortranermara · September 2018

I have no problem with each class being optimized for a role:

Nightblade = highest single target DPS
Sorceror = highest AOE DPS
Dragonknight = best tank -or- moderate single target DPS
Templar = best healer + moderate AOE DPS
Warden = second best tank (best off-tank) + moderate heals

This is as it should be. The problem is not the existence of these gaps, but how big they are. When I switch from my Templar to my Sorc it feels almost like everything just falls over and kills itself when it sees me coming.

Vahrokh · September 2018

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

I have no problem with each class being optimized for a role:

Nightblade = highest single target DPS
Sorceror = highest AOE DPS
Dragonknight = best tank -or- moderate single target DPS
Templar = best healer + moderate AOE DPS
Warden = second best tank (best off-tank) + moderate heals

This is as it should be. The problem is not the existence of these gaps, but how big they are. When I switch from my Templar to my Sorc it feels almost like everything just falls over and kills itself when it sees me coming.

I have a problem, when ZOS, in order to save lots of development money, changes the way they create trials and make roles obsolete. In example, nobody gives a damn about sorcs having the highest AoE DPS these days. Nor nobody cares if stamina class XYZ has highest melee DPS.

Both AS and CR are made magblades territory, AoE is irrelevant and melee are more a liability than an asset.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

Classes without utility should undoubtedly do more dps then classes with utility, however the difference should not be as great as it is.

Wardens have the least utility of any DPS class and they deal the least damage. Check mate.

Valrien · September 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

It is just a bad design right from the beginning.

1. There should be no classes in this game at all - just the skill lines. Some classes are so badly balanced that the players don't even use class skills at all.
I get some players stick to a class and try hard to make it work no-matter what. It is an interesting challenge, but it is just 1% of the player base who enjoys doing it. The majority players simply follow the meta, and if there is no meta for their class then they put the game on hold.

2. Now on top of class balance there is PVE/PVP aspect to it as well. They have different mechanics and impossible to balance.

3. On top of that there is CP/ no-CP campaign and tons of sets.

You have to be a genius to balance all that. Such geniuses does not exist in ESO - if it would exist then there would be no classes at all in the ESO design.

I know very few of you agrees with the point one (as the game's live the 4th year now and the mind is already set and you love too much your class), but look how many players have left the game because of one skill nerf. As if you nerf a skill it usually means you nerf a class - and that's very painful.

"There should be no classes in this game at all"

This is evidence that the poster has not thought out their post.

Glurin · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

It is just a bad design right from the beginning.

1. There should be no classes in this game at all - just the skill lines. Some classes are so badly balanced that the players don't even use class skills at all.
I get some players stick to a class and try hard to make it work no-matter what. It is an interesting challenge, but it is just 1% of the player base who enjoys doing it. The majority players simply follow the meta, and if there is no meta for their class then they put the game on hold.

2. Now on top of class balance there is PVE/PVP aspect to it as well. They have different mechanics and impossible to balance.

3. On top of that there is CP/ no-CP campaign and tons of sets.

You have to be a genius to balance all that. Such geniuses does not exist in ESO - if it would exist then there would be no classes at all in the ESO design.

I know very few of you agrees with the point one (as the game's live the 4th year now and the mind is already set and you love too much your class), but look how many players have left the game because of one skill nerf. As if you nerf a skill it usually means you nerf a class - and that's very painful.

"There should be no classes in this game at all"

This is evidence that the poster has not thought out their post.

No, he's right. There shouldn't be. It wouldn't solve the meta problem though. Without classes to complain about balance wise, they'd be complaining more about dual wield or something.

lassitershawn · September 2018

Hateanthem wrote: »

I don't run endgame content in ESO but have in other MMO's, and in my experience most DPS classes are relatively close to each other, to the point that the players skill it what determines who is on top of the DPS chart at the end of a fight.

If you are running with a group that demands you play a certain class because it's theoretical DPS output is 3%-5% greater than the others, you are running with what I like to call... "dingalings". People who constantly chase the meta because they think that having those numbers is more important than anything else in the game, and see it as some kind of arbitrary status symbol that means absolutely nothing to anyone who is not another "dingaling".

Play what you enjoy. If endgame content is what you like, master what you play so you can say you perform to the best of your classes realistic abilities.

It's the players that always seem to create a toxic environment when it comes to endgame content, and this is across all MMOs that I have played.

Just my $.02.

Lets be perfectly clear, it isn't 3-5%. I started seriously using magblade this patch because it is SO much better than the magsorcs I love so much. 53.5k fully self buffed on a 6m, no cheese, no trap. 4-5 hours of work learning the rotation tops. I have over 100 DAYS on DPS magsorc and can't pull that high even with external drain and orb support. Let alone solo with having to heavy attack. 48 is pretty much the max I've seen that magsorc can do solo without spell sym. Meanwhile some magblades can reach 55k solo, albeit with trap which isn't used in newer raids afaik.

Sorcs get one synergy and it isn't even necessary for a DPS to be the one bringing it to raid. NBs get FAR more utility in healing potential (funnel + refreshing, veil of blades and siphon ult in some content) if needed and make less sacrifices (bifood possible in most content if your healers aren't ***, never have to slot an "extra" skill for heals). The ability to efficiently use architect cannot be overlooked in utility considerations either. Best execute in game is also nice for content where execute is often the most dangerous part of a fight. Synergizes well with BT jewelry. On top of all this, magblade gets major expedition for no effort. Accelerate only makes up for this to an extent. Mag DKs are basically a melee class, offer no utility that a DK tank can't give, and are still inferior to magblade. Templar DPS is lower than magblade, and offers nothing. Warden lol.

Stamina outside of stamblades is rarely considered for serious runs of hard content (albeit stam isn't used at all really in vAS/vCR but is quite good in vHoF/vMoL). Additionally, some people have stated that mag NB numbers on a dummy are inflated because of minor berserk. Newsflash, healers don't often slot CBP anymore (not in vAS or vCR at least) and if they do it is typically for execute I'm pretty sure (not a healer so don't ask me). So other classes have to use slimecraw and this goes back to NBs sacrificing less.

I do think magblade deserves high numbers by virtue of having the hardest rotation, but even a suboptimal rotation is still superior to a good rotation on another class, and the damage difference is FAR too large. NB, mag and stam, are both broken and other classes need to be buffed to their tier. Imo you should have at LEAST 3 viable DPS classes and currently there are at BEST two (with magsorcs only present for a single synergy and now healers are taking this role to some extent) with nightblades outshining everything by a massive massive amount.

SoLooney · September 2018

Sigtric wrote: »

As long as there are different classes and builds there will always be one that stands on top when the minmaxing community figures out which is top performer after any changes.

The only way to keep this from happening is to make all DPS identical. No thanks

While you do have a point. Magblades and stamblades are parsing way higher than their counterparts, and mostly referring to group dps

Magblades are easily hitting 75k plus group raid and stamblades are hitting well over 80k, some stamblades even hitting over 85k

Compare magblade to a mag sorc in raid, and mag sorc cant touch their single target dps, pretty sure magdens or magplars cant get anywhere close either. Cant even compare mag dks to magblades cause they are melee dps, and they honestly take up a stamblade spot

While I seen stamplars, and stam DJs getting in the low 70s in group, they cant touch a stamblade.

The gap between the dps classes is way too large. Nightblades take significant more skill and it's good that more skill equals higher dps output, but even then, all the other classes get left in the dust for dps

TequilaFire · September 2018

I love the way people throw 75K or higher out there like it is a common occurrence, it isn't only a select few do that others are flat out lying. This outright jealousy between sorcs and magblades is ridiculous as the goal is to finish the dungeon or trial as a group not an individual but the elitists ruin it by making so much noise over who has the most DPS on a dummy.

Wifeaggro13 · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Classes without utility should undoubtedly do more dps then classes with utility, however the difference should not be as great as it is.

Wardens have the least utility of any DPS class and they deal the least damage. Check mate.

one of the main game design flaws is the insignificance of Utility CC, and tanking abilities and roles. I think at the end of the day the main balance issues are the result of the games foundation being built around a DPS meta. until they address that its a flavor of the patch cycle. Truthfully the game played better 2 years ago then it does now.

Vahrokh · September 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

I love the way people throw 75K or higher out there like it is a common occurrence, it isn't only a select few do that others are flat out lying. This outright jealousy between sorcs and magblades is ridiculous as the goal is to finish the dungeon or trial as a group not an individual but the elitists ruin it by making so much noise over who has the most DPS on a dummy.

Two of my guild mates do 59k with NB in trial. Is it unrealistic? Not at all.
Who comes next?

Another guild mate, a monster skilled magsorc (not me) does 48k.

It's a freaking 23% difference!!!!

Not "5%" like you can see in proper MMOs.

Hateanthem · September 2018

lassitershawn wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

I don't run endgame content in ESO but have in other MMO's, and in my experience most DPS classes are relatively close to each other, to the point that the players skill it what determines who is on top of the DPS chart at the end of a fight.

If you are running with a group that demands you play a certain class because it's theoretical DPS output is 3%-5% greater than the others, you are running with what I like to call... "dingalings". People who constantly chase the meta because they think that having those numbers is more important than anything else in the game, and see it as some kind of arbitrary status symbol that means absolutely nothing to anyone who is not another "dingaling".

Play what you enjoy. If endgame content is what you like, master what you play so you can say you perform to the best of your classes realistic abilities.

It's the players that always seem to create a toxic environment when it comes to endgame content, and this is across all MMOs that I have played.

Just my $.02.

Lets be perfectly clear, it isn't 3-5%. I started seriously using magblade this patch because it is SO much better than the magsorcs I love so much. 53.5k fully self buffed on a 6m, no cheese, no trap. 4-5 hours of work learning the rotation tops. I have over 100 DAYS on DPS magsorc and can't pull that high even with external drain and orb support. Let alone solo with having to heavy attack. 48 is pretty much the max I've seen that magsorc can do solo without spell sym. Meanwhile some magblades can reach 55k solo, albeit with trap which isn't used in newer raids afaik.

Sorcs get one synergy and it isn't even necessary for a DPS to be the one bringing it to raid. NBs get FAR more utility in healing potential (funnel + refreshing, veil of blades and siphon ult in some content) if needed and make less sacrifices (bifood possible in most content if your healers aren't ***, never have to slot an "extra" skill for heals). The ability to efficiently use architect cannot be overlooked in utility considerations either. Best execute in game is also nice for content where execute is often the most dangerous part of a fight. Synergizes well with BT jewelry. On top of all this, magblade gets major expedition for no effort. Accelerate only makes up for this to an extent. Mag DKs are basically a melee class, offer no utility that a DK tank can't give, and are still inferior to magblade. Templar DPS is lower than magblade, and offers nothing. Warden lol.

Stamina outside of stamblades is rarely considered for serious runs of hard content (albeit stam isn't used at all really in vAS/vCR but is quite good in vHoF/vMoL). Additionally, some people have stated that mag NB numbers on a dummy are inflated because of minor berserk. Newsflash, healers don't often slot CBP anymore (not in vAS or vCR at least) and if they do it is typically for execute I'm pretty sure (not a healer so don't ask me). So other classes have to use slimecraw and this goes back to NBs sacrificing less.

I do think magblade deserves high numbers by virtue of having the hardest rotation, but even a suboptimal rotation is still superior to a good rotation on another class, and the damage difference is FAR too large. NB, mag and stam, are both broken and other classes need to be buffed to their tier. Imo you should have at LEAST 3 viable DPS classes and currently there are at BEST two (with magsorcs only present for a single synergy and now healers are taking this role to some extent) with nightblades outshining everything by a massive massive amount.

Let's be perfectly clear... I don't care.

I just don't. 11%....3%-5%...whatever. Still not enough of a difference for me to change my original statement.

Are there sites that record parses like there are for other games? It would be interesting to see overall damage numbers for encounters.

LordSarevok · September 2018

Is the difference really that high? Are they cheese setups for dummy parses? What is the real dps difference in a raid? I'm not trolling I just want to know if I need to finish my Magblade... Lol.

I currently can pull around 40k pretty consistently with my mag sorc. Could I pull 50k on a magblade with decent rotation?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

NB (due largely in part to how merciless/relentless functions) has a much higher skill threshold than every other class in this game. If you dont have a perfect weave and fire a bow proc every fifth skill, the damage is not going to be that far out of line from other skills like frags, that are much easier to execute. That said, if you can execute it at that level, the damage difference is remarkable. Same goes for a dynamic rotation. If you play NB essentially as a static rotation (i.e. there is a set order to it), it falls in line with other classes in a hurry, but if you can play it dynamically, the gap becomes much more noticable.

1) What players perceive, is that classes that are already inferior to mag/stam NB get nerfed, while NBs, in every recent expansion, "by pure chance" always have one of their mechanics awesomely benefitting from the new gear sets or new game mechanics.

2) How is it fair, that one class gets "normal mode" and "pro mode" while every other class only get "peasant mode"? Shouldn't all classes give a way to excel, for those who play better? Why if I want to prove I am a superior skill sorc / templar / DK / warden I have to reroll NB?

Don't shoot the messenger, I am just telling it how it is. I never said it was fair. Haha. The only thing I will say is that if they do in fact decide to make an effort to close the gap, I hope they do it by raising the floor instead of lowering the ceiling. IMO, NB is great. They should bring other classes up to scratch, not destroy the most fun and dynamic class in the game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

LordSarevok wrote: »

Is the difference really that high? Are they cheese setups for dummy parses? What is the real dps difference in a raid? I'm not trolling I just want to know if I need to finish my Magblade... Lol.

I currently can pull around 40k pretty consistently with my mag sorc. Could I pull 50k on a magblade with decent rotation?

I would say self buffed on a dummy, you can pull it with and excellent rotation. You can always finish leveling and find out. My guess is that it will take you a fair amount of time for your NB parses to surpass your sorc parses. Nightblades do in fact excel on the cheese parses if that's what you are going for, but that said, NBs scale very well in a raid. You dont see 8 sorcs (or DKs, wardens, templars) doing pad 3 rakkhat HM burns, that's for sure. Putting a number on it is hard, because everyone has a different baseline.

Eyesinthedrk · September 2018

LordSarevok wrote: »

Is the difference really that high? Are they cheese setups for dummy parses? What is the real dps difference in a raid? I'm not trolling I just want to know if I need to finish my Magblade... Lol.

I currently can pull around 40k pretty consistently with my mag sorc. Could I pull 50k on a magblade with decent rotation?

Yes because when you to run with a higher quality raid team on your sorc, they’ll ask if you have a mag blade... no?...oh :-/

Valrien · September 2018

LordSarevok wrote: »

Is the difference really that high? Are they cheese setups for dummy parses? What is the real dps difference in a raid? I'm not trolling I just want to know if I need to finish my Magblade... Lol.

I currently can pull around 40k pretty consistently with my mag sorc. Could I pull 50k on a magblade with decent rotation?

Oh definitely

TequilaFire · September 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I love the way people throw 75K or higher out there like it is a common occurrence, it isn't only a select few do that others are flat out lying. This outright jealousy between sorcs and magblades is ridiculous as the goal is to finish the dungeon or trial as a group not an individual but the elitists ruin it by making so much noise over who has the most DPS on a dummy.

Two of my guild mates do 59k with NB in trial. Is it unrealistic? Not at all.
Who comes next?

Another guild mate, a monster skilled magsorc (not me) does 48k.

It's a freaking 23% difference!!!!

Not "5%" like you can see in proper MMOs.

So why are you not glad for your team/guild mates instead of being jealous?

Valrien · September 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I love the way people throw 75K or higher out there like it is a common occurrence, it isn't only a select few do that others are flat out lying. This outright jealousy between sorcs and magblades is ridiculous as the goal is to finish the dungeon or trial as a group not an individual but the elitists ruin it by making so much noise over who has the most DPS on a dummy.

Two of my guild mates do 59k with NB in trial. Is it unrealistic? Not at all.
Who comes next?

Another guild mate, a monster skilled magsorc (not me) does 48k.

It's a freaking 23% difference!!!!

Not "5%" like you can see in proper MMOs.

So why are you not glad for your team/guild mates instead of being jealous?

Because the difference is disgusting, and also representative of the current class gap?

Good for those 2 players, but Nightblade is very much broken

Facefister · September 2018

ll_Rev wrote: »

Let’s not forget nb dps tests are inflated from minor berserk.

So much this
Let's take StamBlade and StamSorc as an example. StamBlade will pull off much more DPS on the dummy than the StamSorc since the StamBlade has Minor Berserk and Major Fracture. But in a group environment where the StamSorc has also access to those, its DPS will be similiar of the StamBlade.

TequilaFire · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I love the way people throw 75K or higher out there like it is a common occurrence, it isn't only a select few do that others are flat out lying. This outright jealousy between sorcs and magblades is ridiculous as the goal is to finish the dungeon or trial as a group not an individual but the elitists ruin it by making so much noise over who has the most DPS on a dummy.

Two of my guild mates do 59k with NB in trial. Is it unrealistic? Not at all.
Who comes next?

Another guild mate, a monster skilled magsorc (not me) does 48k.

It's a freaking 23% difference!!!!

Not "5%" like you can see in proper MMOs.

So why are you not glad for your team/guild mates instead of being jealous?

Because the difference is disgusting, and also representative of the current class gap?

Good for those 2 players, but Nightblade is very much broken

And in a PvE situation this matters why? The mNB are contributing to your total group DPS clearing the dungeon or trial.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

Facefister wrote: »

ll_Rev wrote: »

Let’s not forget nb dps tests are inflated from minor berserk.

So much this
Let's take StamBlade and StamSorc as an example. StamBlade will pull off much more DPS on the dummy than the StamSorc since the StamBlade has Minor Berserk and Major Fracture. But in a group environment where the StamSorc has also access to those, its DPS will be similiar of the StamBlade.

Your arguments are correct, but your conclusion is flawed. Yes, NB gets fracture and Berserk which certainly help dummy parses, but in the top tier raids, "similar" is just not the correct word to describe the damage between the two classes. The single target DPS is pretty out of line. The AOE from sorc is definitely higher, which might make the numbers look closer than they actually are, but the ST DPS is measurably higher on stamblade.

Stamblades are pushing 80k ST in the best raids. I havent seen anything comparable from stam sorc, but please share vids if I am missing something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Kolbx2w-w
76.9k ST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s5bGDEVHok
77.6k ST

Valrien · September 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I love the way people throw 75K or higher out there like it is a common occurrence, it isn't only a select few do that others are flat out lying. This outright jealousy between sorcs and magblades is ridiculous as the goal is to finish the dungeon or trial as a group not an individual but the elitists ruin it by making so much noise over who has the most DPS on a dummy.

Two of my guild mates do 59k with NB in trial. Is it unrealistic? Not at all.
Who comes next?

Another guild mate, a monster skilled magsorc (not me) does 48k.

It's a freaking 23% difference!!!!

Not "5%" like you can see in proper MMOs.

So why are you not glad for your team/guild mates instead of being jealous?

Because the difference is disgusting, and also representative of the current class gap?

Good for those 2 players, but Nightblade is very much broken

And in a PvE situation this matters why? The mNB are contributing to your total group DPS clearing the dungeon or trial.

Because why would they bother bringing anything other than a Nightblade?

Think of it this way. If each NB does 20% more damage than a Sorc (2 extremes, highest vs. lowest DPS) then a group with 8 NBs will do 160% more damage than a group with 8 Sorcs, roughly.

There is basically no reason to bring anything other than a Magblade these days. PvE is not casual content where everyone gets a group, like you seem to assume

FrostFallFox · September 2018

TBH, for the effort put into playing a Nightblade well, it should do more damage.