About Jewelry Crafting economy

My_Treehawk · August 2018

kringled_1 wrote: »

I had an epic infused JC master today, 88 vouchers.

I assume that was a 9 trait piece.

That is also kind of encouraging - thanks for the info.

kringled_1 · August 2018

Actually it was torug's pact, so not even that many traits. I think the infused multiplier is pretty large for some reason.

stitchesofdooom · September 2018

karpok wrote: »

I was gathering my thoughts about Jewelry Crafting. At the beginning I was really thrilled at the idea of this new and long awaited art. But now I feel disappointed and I really feel it's not worth investing in it as its economy seems to be completely screwed up. But feel free to convince me it could be worth.

To develop my points. Jewelry crafting was meant to be harder than other crafting. Ok that's fine. But maybe it had gone a little too far.
Basically you need 10 more raw materials to customize your creation (traits + quality). So you could think it is 10 times harder to craft a piece of a ring.
But actually loot rates of pieces of jewelry in the wild or in dungeon is much lower than for other objects. I didn't make a precise calculation but we should not be far from a 1 to 10 ratio.
So in the end rafting a basic arcane/robust/health jewel is something like 100 times harder than crafting a wooden shield.
To a lower extend it also applies to ore materials. Loot rate is lower than silk for example. Usually doing a couple of undaunted dailies, I can sustain the daily writs for tailoring or woodcrafting. This don't apply to jewelry crafting.

Now is it really an issue if the benefit of crafting a good necklace is higher ? I guess no. But it is not the case today.

Let's take the example of a cp160 Julianos Arcane Necklace (I choose a famous set for the demonstration). If I consider the average price of the raw materials given by TTC :
* a grey necklace costs 120k to craft
* a green necklace costs 125k to craft
* a blue necklace costs 135k to craft
* a purple necklace costs 210k to craft
* a gold necklace costs 950k to craft

At the same time the highest cost of this necklace on the market is at the moment:
* 22k for a green version
* 25k in blue
* 140k in purple
* 490k in gold

And I am already surprised of such high price, since you can easily replace jewel by other items much less expensive.
So unless being a full time lucky grinder, its not worth becoming a professional jewelry crafter today. You would lose money

The same would apply to improving dungeon/trial jewel quality.
Once again let's take the example of trial jewel:
* improving from blue to purple is around 70k (the equivalent of 5 successful veterans hm run of the trial)
* improving from purple to gold is around 700k (the equivalent of 58 successful veterans hm run of the trial)

So in the end you will probably loot the jewel you are looking for much faster then you will get the money to improve it.

So for now the only little interest I can see in leveling jewelry crafting would be transmutation. But that is not a huge thing.

To conclude there are really good opportunities behind jewelry crafting. But for me raw material costs and end product values are still too unbalanced to make it nice to invest into.

I would be glad to hear other point of views on the topic.

yeah, they need to abandon that BS grain system ASAP and multiply everyone's platings by 10 to make up for the grind-tatstic stingyness

Koen_Rietveld · September 2018

I personally think the grain system poses a more stable and respected way of crafting. Mostly because you make a lot of coin crafting higher tier weapons. Not only does it make it better for Crafter's to get coin, it also provides a lot more respect for those who can craft higher tier. And also give more of a challenge to upgrade your or someone else's gear. It gives more value to an item. And I think it is also better for a more stable price for the platings. Especially because you can longer get the hireling. And that gives me some reason to beleave they ectualy want to maintain value to the upgrade resources and not let it drop drastically like the tannins, rasins and tempers. If you ask me, it's worth the time you need for the money it gets paid. And it doesn't drop like hell over time. And it's worth to upgrade it if you really wish to. And if it keeps the grind hard it keeps the price high. Instead of just 4k for a tennin instead of the original 20k. And even now the price is still dropping slowly.

My_Treehawk · September 2018

I think I am quite happy with the changes they made. It seems to balance economy and application well enough to satisfy the issues I had. Nice job guys - thanks

stitchesofdooom · September 2018

My_Treehawk wrote: »

I think I am quite happy with the changes they made. It seems to balance economy and application well enough to satisfy the issues I had. Nice job guys - thanks

so basically you're selling your chromium for an absolute ***-load and and are getting slightly more now so you can make even more gold?

stitchesofdooom · September 2018

karpok wrote: »

I was gathering my thoughts about Jewelry Crafting. At the beginning I was really thrilled at the idea of this new and long awaited art. But now I feel disappointed and I really feel it's not worth investing in it as its economy seems to be completely screwed up. But feel free to convince me it could be worth.

To develop my points. Jewelry crafting was meant to be harder than other crafting. Ok that's fine. But maybe it had gone a little too far.
Basically you need 10 more raw materials to customize your creation (traits + quality). So you could think it is 10 times harder to craft a piece of a ring.
But actually loot rates of pieces of jewelry in the wild or in dungeon is much lower than for other objects. I didn't make a precise calculation but we should not be far from a 1 to 10 ratio.
So in the end rafting a basic arcane/robust/health jewel is something like 100 times harder than crafting a wooden shield.
To a lower extend it also applies to ore materials. Loot rate is lower than silk for example. Usually doing a couple of undaunted dailies, I can sustain the daily writs for tailoring or woodcrafting. This don't apply to jewelry crafting.

Now is it really an issue if the benefit of crafting a good necklace is higher ? I guess no. But it is not the case today.

Let's take the example of a cp160 Julianos Arcane Necklace (I choose a famous set for the demonstration). If I consider the average price of the raw materials given by TTC :
* a grey necklace costs 120k to craft
* a green necklace costs 125k to craft
* a blue necklace costs 135k to craft
* a purple necklace costs 210k to craft
* a gold necklace costs 950k to craft

At the same time the highest cost of this necklace on the market is at the moment:
* 22k for a green version
* 25k in blue
* 140k in purple
* 490k in gold

And I am already surprised of such high price, since you can easily replace jewel by other items much less expensive.
So unless being a full time lucky grinder, its not worth becoming a professional jewelry crafter today. You would lose money

The same would apply to improving dungeon/trial jewel quality.
Once again let's take the example of trial jewel:
* improving from blue to purple is around 70k (the equivalent of 5 successful veterans hm run of the trial)
* improving from purple to gold is around 700k (the equivalent of 58 successful veterans hm run of the trial)

So in the end you will probably loot the jewel you are looking for much faster then you will get the money to improve it.

So for now the only little interest I can see in leveling jewelry crafting would be transmutation. But that is not a huge thing.

To conclude there are really good opportunities behind jewelry crafting. But for me raw material costs and end product values are still too unbalanced to make it nice to invest into.

I would be glad to hear other point of views on the topic.

greedy traders are raking in massive profits off of the horriblie rarety of Chromium. I despise greedy people.

Haenk · September 2018

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

greedy traders are raking in massive profits off of the horriblie rarety of Chromium. I despise greedy people.

Chromium *is* rare - so why should it be cheap?
And then, you are free to offer Chromium at a special-low-price, if you can't stand the greed.

My_Treehawk · September 2018

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

My_Treehawk wrote: »

I think I am quite happy with the changes they made. It seems to balance economy and application well enough to satisfy the issues I had. Nice job guys - thanks

so basically you're selling your chromium for an absolute ***-load and and are getting slightly more now so you can make even more gold?

I don't sell tempers, and I have no intention of crafting another Gold piece of jewelry now that I have my achievement for it.

What I meant is, as a Crafter for friends and members of several guilds, with the changes, it is now feasible to create up to purple level pieces for them. If they ask for a gold piece I take the time to illustrate the foolishness of such a thing (cost vs increase) and usually send them after the gold drop sets if they are still inclined to acquire some. If they "need" gold jewelry to survive, then the problem is their build or their skills, and the very minor bump in stats is not going to make enough difference.

I am not in this game to make a ***-load of gold; I am in it to be of service to those that want or need something from someone as skilled as I am, so these changes have both made it possible for them to afford the pieces they want/need and still keep the gold drop pieces just as valuable as they should be. As far as gold goes, I maintain about 500k gp, and that, only so I have enough on hand to get anything I need when I need it. I see no point in holding onto a hoard of gold.

As a side-note, I typically charge just 20k per "order" (be it 1 piece or a full set) plus mats and take the time to go over what they want to ensure it will do what they expect and (now thanks to the outfit station) bring them to my crafting hall so they can select the styles they want (I have all motifs) as I craft it, and because of this approach, over time, these folks have brought, given or traded things to me that have saved me millions. I am happier, they seem happier and everyone gets what they want, so again, why hoard the gold.?.

On the flip side to your "selling" reply - if there are not people willing to spend that much, then the sellers have no market - so keep in mind that this drives and maintains the prices just as much as availability does. Economics is not a one sided equation.

The only change I think they still need to do is return plates instead of grains from decon of gold jewelry, it would not upset the economy and would still allow a means to acquire a plate or two if you wanted to approach it that way.

edited to clarify some things.