Trying to Get Better, What Does it Take?

kylewwefan · September 2018

Join a top level players Discord and find out what it takes. I was somewhat shocked what levels they really go to to achieve these results.

I already impose some restrictions on my gaming by choosing to play on console. But there’s things I wouldn’t have given much thaught to that could still push my gaming even further. I’m not going to do it, because my commitment to the game has to end somewhere. But others are doing the whatever it takes stuff with some success.

Big improvements by swapping console hard drive to solid state drive. Uhm...yeah no. They make it sound simple enough to do with big time performance improvement but I’ve got a kid in college and another one in daycare. Not happening.

Optimizing network for your consoles priority. Sounds simple enough til your looking at router configuration and then decide, nah. Don’t want to mess anything up and have to get someone out here to fix what was working now, no one can get online but my console. Be the hero. Just say no.

Macro controllers. Yep. You could be “That Guy”. Could you imagine? Your whole rotation fires off with one button tap. Or even just for rapid fire, never missing a light attack. Amazing as it sounds, I can’t bring myself to do this.

whatever it takes to get some kind of advantage on an otherwise level playing field.

Instead, I get myself caught up trying to collect this BiS endgame gear setup and learn how to use it with some proficiency. Then I find out it’s nearly unplayable for me and have to switch back to something else.

What can I say. Love this game, but chasing after this stuff to find it doesn’t really work that well for me and my play style has been somewhat disheartening.

Finding what does work for me has been an enjoyable challenge. How do you know what really works for you? I don’t know. Go solo an easy dungeon or run Maelstrom or something. If you have any problems, your build is probably not right and you can adjust for that.

I’m salty today. Spent a lot of time this weekend In DLC dungeons, VDSA, Vet Trials...ehhhhhh.....with people that shouldn’t have been there.

On the plus side, I Stormproof my healer this weekend and made leaderboards with her rocking SPC/Julianos. Found the setup to be really good actually.

Turelus · September 2018

FYI macros no matter how small are against the Terms of Service, if someone did use them and got caught using them they could face actions against their account.
Also macro's are generally not great at making one a better at the game because they're fixed, it's better being able to instantly cancel one's current pattern and instead adapt to the situation.

One of the issues with people not improving is the game itself doesn't really teach you the "correct" way to play.
There is no information past one sentence about how to light attack weave for DD, there is no information that specific sets vastly out perform others and there are "best in slot" choices.

The only way players can learn to get better is if they're the kind of player who goes outside of the game to find more about it. MMO veterans are used to this, however console players (who may not be used to how MMO games work) and the more casual roleplay game fans probably don't understand this either.

Onefrkncrzypope · September 2018

On console there are some struggles. Are you trying to get into a score run guild? Are just worried about humping DPS dummies? Are you chasing meta? These all change the route you will go. I see that you are on ps4 NA. if its build advice hit me up and I should be able to help with anything that isn't a magblade(I'm colorblind so all the red screws me over). If you are looking for a guild that runs trials alot I can get you into one that is pretty active(I think).

Sparr0w · September 2018

Just practice mate, eventually rotation becomes muscle memory.

Jinchuu · September 2018

It takes what 5 minutes at the most to follow a step by step guide to forward the ports on your router (unless Sony has some crazy setup for their network config, though I highly doubt this with how easy it for their network to be accessed)?

SSD drive does make a significant difference and are cheap af. Not sure if playstations still have what is essentially a boobytrap around their internal HDs still, used to get some good laughs from the multitude of people who broke it and then were surprised when they found out it was purposefully designed that way (people actually expect Sony to not find ways to scrounge more money out of you?), so unless you have really steady hands or know someone who has done it before I'd leave it alone.

Also if you're running trials/DLC (and have enough of the elititst mentality to claim that others you've run into don't belong there) then why are you using SPC and Juli instead of Olorime's and Jorvaald's?

Grandesdar · September 2018

I'm really confused what the OP tried to talk about, at first it seemed like he was bashing elitists for going too far, then he bashed some people for not being good enough for end game content.
Is that the disappointment of not being able to do these listed stuff while being better than an average console player?

NordSwordnBoard · September 2018

Grandesdar wrote: »

I'm really confused what the OP tried to talk about, at first it seemed like he was bashing elitists for going too far, then he bashed some people for not being good enough for end game content.
Is that the disappointment of not being able to do these listed stuff while being better than an average console player?

More like the disappointment of how much needs to be invested for what you get in return for that investment. OP is talking about the line between playing for fun and playing for more than that. Trial leaderboard scores require some dedication and time not everybody is willing or capable to give, despite having enough skill to belong there.

Starlock · September 2018

Jinchuu wrote: »

SSD drive does make a significant difference and are cheap af.

Where on earth are you finding 1tb ssd’s that are ‘cheap af’???? Have never seen one below a hundred dollars, and with ‘cheap af’ I’d require it cost me twenty.

Prabooo · September 2018

Starlock wrote: »

Jinchuu wrote: »

SSD drive does make a significant difference and are cheap af.

Where on earth are you finding 1tb ssd’s that are ‘cheap af’???? Have never seen one below a hundred dollars, and with ‘cheap af’ I’d require it cost me twenty.

get a 500GB one, it works really well

BWS2K · September 2018

'Trying to Get Better... at what?'

That's a really important question. You have to define your own Win Conditions since the game is so multi-faceted and 'winning' in one area almost certainly won't apply to another area. I just beat the main quest last night to get it out of the way after 500hrs and I was... meh. It wasn't very impressive, in my opinion. Winning, for me is making memorable characters and dressing them up (or not) and doing goofy things I can show my kids. So that means I can ignore all the Meta but I'm limited in character slots and have to put some thought into the characters beyond level 5. If you're talking about getting better at PvP then the answer isn't the same as getting better at PvE or Trading, etc.

That said, this game is run on a central server. It will die someday. There's a hard limit to what I'm willing to do to play - I'll pay my subscription fee for the time I play but I won't start messing around with my hard drives or pouring over wikis. We're all different. *shrug*

Nestor · September 2018

Gaming on an SSD is just so much better, get a 500GB model and you will smile at each load screen.

As for optimizing your router, I just set the needed port ranges to be triggered and left it at that. Setting up QOS is really only needed if you have a lot of streaming going on with Neflix and the like while you are gaming.

ZOS_JesC · September 2018

Greetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a reminder to keep comments civil and on topic. Thank you.

Wreuntzylla · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

FYI macros no matter how small are against the Terms of Service, if someone did use them and got caught using them they could face actions against their account.
Also macro's are generally not great at making one a better at the game because they're fixed, it's better being able to instantly cancel one's current pattern and instead adapt to the situation.

One of the issues with people not improving is the game itself doesn't really teach you the "correct" way to play.
There is no information past one sentence about how to light attack weave for DD, there is no information that specific sets vastly out perform others and there are "best in slot" choices.

The only way players can learn to get better is if they're the kind of player who goes outside of the game to find more about it. MMO veterans are used to this, however console players (who may not be used to how MMO games work) and the more casual roleplay game fans probably don't understand this either.

@Turelus

It has been shown over and over that some macros improve game play immensely, especially in a laggy environment. Are you perhaps thinking of bots that run extended routines?

Also, can you provide a source for the terms of service comment? Over the years, ZoS has avoided the issue completely, and the terms of service have been argued by some to only forbid bots. Further, about half the addons I use for crafting apply macros of some sort, for example, Dolgubons (the second best QoL addon ever). I have assumed since ZoS monitors addons and recently went so far as to put an in game note saying one of the minimap addons was causing issues, that Dolgubons and the like were not against ToS.

ResTandRespeC · September 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

Join a top level players Discord and find out what it takes. I was somewhat shocked what levels they really go to to achieve these results.

I already impose some restrictions on my gaming by choosing to play on console. But there’s things I wouldn’t have given much thaught to that could still push my gaming even further. I’m not going to do it, because my commitment to the game has to end somewhere. But others are doing the whatever it takes stuff with some success.

Big improvements by swapping console hard drive to solid state drive. Uhm...yeah no. They make it sound simple enough to do with big time performance improvement but I’ve got a kid in college and another one in daycare. Not happening.

Optimizing network for your consoles priority. Sounds simple enough til your looking at router configuration and then decide, nah. Don’t want to mess anything up and have to get someone out here to fix what was working now, no one can get online but my console. Be the hero. Just say no.

Macro controllers. Yep. You could be “That Guy”. Could you imagine? Your whole rotation fires off with one button tap. Or even just for rapid fire, never missing a light attack. Amazing as it sounds, I can’t bring myself to do this.

whatever it takes to get some kind of advantage on an otherwise level playing field.

Instead, I get myself caught up trying to collect this BiS endgame gear setup and learn how to use it with some proficiency. Then I find out it’s nearly unplayable for me and have to switch back to something else.

What can I say. Love this game, but chasing after this stuff to find it doesn’t really work that well for me and my play style has been somewhat disheartening.

Finding what does work for me has been an enjoyable challenge. How do you know what really works for you? I don’t know. Go solo an easy dungeon or run Maelstrom or something. If you have any problems, your build is probably not right and you can adjust for that.

I’m salty today. Spent a lot of time this weekend In DLC dungeons, VDSA, Vet Trials...ehhhhhh.....with people that shouldn’t have been there.

On the plus side, I Stormproof my healer this weekend and made leaderboards with her rocking SPC/Julianos. Found the setup to be really good actually.

I do noe of this and still hit the numbers and do all the content that other top raiders do on ps4. None of this is true. I know people who play with the worst internet connection on a 3 year old ps4 thousands of miles away from the server and they play at the top level. Skill and practice over everything else tbh. One thing you said is right though... It does take commitment.

kylewwefan · September 2018

Ill tell ya, leaderboard stuff is far beyond me. Most days just happy to get a complete. Except for easy Maelstrom classes. Meaning templar, warden, DK. I can make their leaderboards no problem.

When you’re in VHRC or VAA and there’s no vitality left after first boss, but everyone has 40k+ DPS except me and my measly 28k. I’ll tell ya right now They’re spending way too much time making sweet love to that dummy and not enough time playing the game.

That’s about as elitist as I’m gonna get.

Wanna guess how many times I had to bail on a WGT random this weekend? Extra point if you know where?

Jinchuu wrote: »

It takes what 5 minutes at the most to follow a step by step guide to forward the ports on your router (unless Sony has some crazy setup for their network config, though I highly doubt this with how easy it for their network to be accessed)?

SSD drive does make a significant difference and are cheap af. Not sure if playstations still have what is essentially a boobytrap around their internal HDs still, used to get some good laughs from the multitude of people who broke it and then were surprised when they found out it was purposefully designed that way (people actually expect Sony to not find ways to scrounge more money out of you?), so unless you have really steady hands or know someone who has done it before I'd leave it alone.

Also if you're running trials/DLC (and have enough of the elititst mentality to claim that others you've run into don't belong there) then why are you using SPC and Juli instead of Olorime's and Jorvaald's?

Yes, I looked into port forwarding. Uh no. Easy step by step guide takes 5 minutes? Also no.

The SSD thing. Sure you can find some relatively inexpensive small ones. I believe it’s easy enough to manually swap them out. Now the whole making it work part.. not so much. And convincing the wife that I need it? No way.

Find me a healer in this game that doesn’t have a set of SPC lying around. It’s a much better Solo templar DPS Set than Olirme. Julianos is the other no brainer/ no farming Set I had on hand.

Sergykid · September 2018

it takes much research, tests, and resources. Too much to be enjoyable. I have spent hours just trying different builds together, all with different abilities, together with different boons, and all that with different food.

eventually, i reach my target it's still not good enough because it's not good enough. After much research and tests i reach let's say 25k dps, but i'm far from the 50k other people pull.

not only there is very much stuff to gather and test, but there are also things that you don't know about, like what CP stars some abilities benefit from, or how much penetration i need for that, or how some things proc others, etc.

now don't tell me "you need time with a build to understand how it works and train with it", because in 10-20 minutes of using a new setup you can already do a fine rotation, and add a few hours to each build. This game is more about inside management rather than skill or fun

ResTandRespeC · September 2018

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

FYI macros no matter how small are against the Terms of Service, if someone did use them and got caught using them they could face actions against their account.
Also macro's are generally not great at making one a better at the game because they're fixed, it's better being able to instantly cancel one's current pattern and instead adapt to the situation.

One of the issues with people not improving is the game itself doesn't really teach you the "correct" way to play.
There is no information past one sentence about how to light attack weave for DD, there is no information that specific sets vastly out perform others and there are "best in slot" choices.

The only way players can learn to get better is if they're the kind of player who goes outside of the game to find more about it. MMO veterans are used to this, however console players (who may not be used to how MMO games work) and the more casual roleplay game fans probably don't understand this either.

@Turelus

It has been shown over and over that some macros improve game play immensely, especially in a laggy environment. Are you perhaps thinking of bots that run extended routines?

Also, can you provide a source for the terms of service comment? Over the years, ZoS has avoided the issue completely, and the terms of service have been argued by some to only forbid bots. Further, about half the addons I use for crafting apply macros of some sort, for example, Dolgubons (the second best QoL addon ever). I have assumed since ZoS monitors addons and recently went so far as to put an in game note saying one of the minimap addons was causing issues, that Dolgubons and the like were not against ToS.

Where has it been shown that macro's help in any way in elder scrolls online?

Turelus · September 2018

@Wreuntzylla

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Thank you for providing the quote, Idinuse, using macros is against the terms of service. We certainly don't mind a thread being created to ask about this, but this is starting to delve into more detail than is acceptable on the forums so we are locking this thread.

Additionally

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

To confirm information:

Owning two accounts - This is allowed so long as they are both owned solely by the player.
Macros/addons - Any modification that is leading a player to an unbalanced advantage or gain over the average player (otherwise considered exploitative) is against the Terms of Service. If you would like more information on specific instances, we would suggest contact Customer Support as they have more specifics and details and can elaborate further on this response.

Specifically mentioning macro keys on gaming peripherals.

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hey there Elf_Boy,

At this time, we don't have any info about Arx compatibility.

For information on Macros like the G Keys, please refer to our Terms of Use. Section 9 is likely the most relevant to this topic.

Case of someone apparently getting banned for light attack weave macro.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327895/banned-for-keyboard-macro

Wreuntzylla · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

@Wreuntzylla

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Thank you for providing the quote, Idinuse, using macros is against the terms of service. We certainly don't mind a thread being created to ask about this, but this is starting to delve into more detail than is acceptable on the forums so we are locking this thread.

Interesting. Does @ZoS_AlanG have authority to speak on behalf of ZoS?

Over the years, ZoS has repeatedly said that the litmus test is whether you had control over your character. So, a bot or taping a key down was against ToS. This is literally the first blanket statement I have seen on the topic.

I would absolutely love this to be enforced. PvP on console is generally so much different than PC...

Edit: Except for the Dolgubons thing. I will cry if they say that is not permitted.

Turelus · September 2018

AlanG was one of the people who commented in almost all cheating/exploiting threads back in the day. I don't know what official position he held whilst at ZOS however. He's working at Bethesda Studios now I believe.

I do agree with you that ZOS has been very standoffish about a concrete reply to the issue, but most past forums posts regarding it have been on the grounds that macro's are not good.
During the Bleakers thing as well people were more worried about being caught using macro's to keep themselves online than abusing the AP flips so...

Nestor · September 2018

Port Forwarding is harder to set up, it requires statics for one thing, and some router GUIs dont let you set ranges. However, Port triggering is easy to set up and allows ranges and you dont need to identify IPs.

https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-Performance-Internal-SP512GBSS3A55S25/dp/B07997QV4Z?crid=38G5GIUKO6O9V&keywords=ssd+500gb&qid=1536601286&sprefix=ssd+&sr=8-7&ref=mp_s_a_1_7

Agenericname · September 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

it takes much research, tests, and resources. Too much to be enjoyable. I have spent hours just trying different builds together, all with different abilities, together with different boons, and all that with different food.

eventually, i reach my target it's still not good enough because it's not good enough. After much research and tests i reach let's say 25k dps, but i'm far from the 50k other people pull.

not only there is very much stuff to gather and test, but there are also things that you don't know about, like what CP stars some abilities benefit from, or how much penetration i need for that, or how some things proc others, etc.

now don't tell me "you need time with a build to understand how it works and train with it", because in 10-20 minutes of using a new setup you can already do a fine rotation, and add a few hours to each build. This game is more about inside management rather than skill or fun

I'm slow. I've spent a lot more than 20 minutes on rotations. I suppose the good news is that it has netted me about 10k DPS

Waffennacht · September 2018

Macro controllers do help with console

Why may a PC player ask?

Because, for example, on console you must block prior to a dodge roll (normal controller) this misses a Stam Regen tick - macro controllers eliminate said problem.

The mess with your box stuff I'm with OP - I ain't doing it - I know me, I break things (and my Xbox was a gift too)

The gear thing - yeah, sucks when an idea turns out bad - I stare at my gold Spider Cultist Staff as a reminder

Aside from minor things, the game itself is fun - especially when you don't have the competitiveness of PvP (been doing PvE for gear and it's a reminder how fun it is)

Btw @Lexxypwns definitely is nicer than me with PuGs - I'll insta kick a lot more than he

Wreuntzylla · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

AlanG was one of the people who commented in almost all cheating/exploiting threads back in the day. I don't know what official position he held whilst at ZOS however. He's working at Bethesda Studios now I believe.

I do agree with you that ZOS has been very standoffish about a concrete reply to the issue, but most past forums posts regarding it have been on the grounds that macro's are not good.
During the Bleakers thing as well people were more worried about being caught using macro's to keep themselves online than abusing the AP flips so...

Yes, but keeping yourself online is only possible using a bot. You aren't "in control" of your toon if your off making a sandwich or sleeping, and letting a program send some command to the game server to stay connected and get a defense tic.

I have always assumed that ZoS was drawing a line between things that lower repetitive stress injuries and things that work while you are not actively playing.

Now my conception of what is and isn't ok is even more tenous than before. <sigh>

Krayl · September 2018

This thread is like one big list of everything that sucks about gaming.

FrancisCrawford · September 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

I already impose some restrictions on my gaming by choosing to play on console. But there’s things I wouldn’t have given m
On the plus side, I Stormproof my healer this weekend and made leaderboards with her rocking SPC/Julianos. Found the setup to be really good actually.

I guess that's one way to boost spell power.

zaria · September 2018

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

FYI macros no matter how small are against the Terms of Service, if someone did use them and got caught using them they could face actions against their account.
Also macro's are generally not great at making one a better at the game because they're fixed, it's better being able to instantly cancel one's current pattern and instead adapt to the situation.

One of the issues with people not improving is the game itself doesn't really teach you the "correct" way to play.
There is no information past one sentence about how to light attack weave for DD, there is no information that specific sets vastly out perform others and there are "best in slot" choices.

The only way players can learn to get better is if they're the kind of player who goes outside of the game to find more about it. MMO veterans are used to this, however console players (who may not be used to how MMO games work) and the more casual roleplay game fans probably don't understand this either.

@Turelus

It has been shown over and over that some macros improve game play immensely, especially in a laggy environment. Are you perhaps thinking of bots that run extended routines?

Also, can you provide a source for the terms of service comment? Over the years, ZoS has avoided the issue completely, and the terms of service have been argued by some to only forbid bots. Further, about half the addons I use for crafting apply macros of some sort, for example, Dolgubons (the second best QoL addon ever). I have assumed since ZoS monitors addons and recently went so far as to put an in game note saying one of the minimap addons was causing issues, that Dolgubons and the like were not against ToS.

Macros help on dummy, I have used them to establish an baseline as its pretty easy to set up an thigh rotation simply to find an limit of that it can do. Did that on my magplar long ago, she does not have any DD gear anymore.
In an dungeon however its downright dangerous as you are locked into the macro and will get problems aborting it to cast shield.
Combat metric on the other hand is an extremely powerful tool, you can use it to track up-time of buffs and see if all your skill fire correctly, only downside that some attacks has travel time while other are instant, had been nice with an log who ignored damage and only registered clicks.

Haashhtaag · September 2018

My best advice for you is to switch your weapon swap off Left d pad and putting it on right thumb stick. Thus making your Left d pad crouch.

geonsocal · September 2018

there are inherent dangers in reaching for the sky...sometimes it's better to settle for a little (lot) less and just be happy:
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