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PvP Resource Feedback: Stamina > Magicka and a Possible Solution.
Unknown_Redemption
✭✭✭✭✭
I am sure there is going to be some blow back here, but I wanted to post this regardless. PvP does not appear balanced between Stamina and Magicka; strictly speaking of resources and evasive actions. Because of this, it seems the ratio of players running stamina to magicka builds is about 8:1.
I have been watching @Fengrush 's Twitch for some time, and although he is exceptionally talented, it should be clear to the developers how OP the stamina resource can be. This is most apparent on Stamina Wardens, for they can roll dodge, sprint, hide out of LoS, heal, and set up a lethal combo; all while magicka users try to simply catch up.
Solution:
Give Ice Staves the ability to Drain Magicka while Sprinting or Dodge Rolling instead of having to tri-stat everything to gain only a small amount of survivability.
Note: This topic has nothing to do with classes, builds, or spells.
Edited by Unknown_Redemption on September 8, 2018 3:57AM I have been watching @Fengrush 's Twitch for some time, and although he is exceptionally talented, it should be clear to the developers how OP the stamina resource can be. This is most apparent on Stamina Wardens, for they can roll dodge, sprint, hide out of LoS, heal, and set up a lethal combo; all while magicka users try to simply catch up.
Solution:
Give Ice Staves the ability to Drain Magicka while Sprinting or Dodge Rolling instead of having to tri-stat everything to gain only a small amount of survivability.
Note: This topic has nothing to do with classes, builds, or spells.
4
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DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »I am sure there is going to be some blow back here, but I wanted to post this regardless. PvP does not appear balanced between Stamina and Magicka, and it seems the ratio of players running stamina to magicka is about 8:1.
I have been watching Fengrush's Twitch for some time, and dont get me wrong he is exceptionally talented a great web personality, but this should make it clear to the developers how OP stamina can be. I understand the skill ceiling is higher, but that doesnt mean they should pull so far ahead in regards to PvP performance. This is the most apparent on Stamina Wardens, as they can sprint, roll dodge, hide, and set up a lethal combo while magicka users try to simply catch up.
Why not give Ice Staves the ability to Drain Magicka while Sprinting or Dodge Rolling instead of having to tri-stat everything to gain only a small amount of suitability.
stamina is far from broken. if you put two extremely talented people against each other one on magicka and one on stamina. most of the time itll come down to luck. ive seen videos of stamina dragonknights vs magicka dragonknights and magicka can dominate over the stamina version very easily due to magicka has access to more abilities. stamsorcs and mag sorcs same thing except mag sorcs have access to ungodly level shields and the ability to super burst if they build for it. warden not even gonna talk about that class as its a pile of crap. nightblades are probly the only class thats balanced in pvp their glass cannons that unless played right get murdered. and templars that class damage wise makes barely little sense as its probly one of the weakest classes in the game period in damage.5 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Unknown_Redemption wrote: »I am sure there is going to be some blow back here, but I wanted to post this regardless. PvP does not appear balanced between Stamina and Magicka, and it seems the ratio of players running stamina to magicka is about 8:1.
I have been watching Fengrush's Twitch for some time, and dont get me wrong he is exceptionally talented a great web personality, but this should make it clear to the developers how OP stamina can be. I understand the skill ceiling is higher, but that doesnt mean they should pull so far ahead in regards to PvP performance. This is the most apparent on Stamina Wardens, as they can sprint, roll dodge, hide, and set up a lethal combo while magicka users try to simply catch up.
Why not give Ice Staves the ability to Drain Magicka while Sprinting or Dodge Rolling instead of having to tri-stat everything to gain only a small amount of suitability.
stamina is far from broken. if you put two extremely talented people against each other one on magicka and one on stamina. most of the time itll come down to luck. ive seen videos of stamina dragonknights vs magicka dragonknights and magicka can dominate over the stamina version very easily due to magicka has access to more abilities. stamsorcs and mag sorcs same thing except mag sorcs have access to ungodly level shields and the ability to super burst if they build for it. warden not even gonna talk about that class as its a pile of crap. nightblades are probly the only class thats balanced in pvp their glass cannons that unless played right get murdered. and templars that class damage wise makes barely little sense as its probly one of the weakest classes in the game period in damage.
Its not that Magicka or Stamina are broken, it that stamina builds have a lot more survivability due to evasive actions. I feel the above solution would be the best option; as it doesnt require any nerfs, just extends a different build option.1 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »I ...I understand the skill ceiling is higher,...
Yea you lost me right here.
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me make something clear for anyone who believes a thing in this post; Stamina Templar, Sorcerer, and Dragonknight =\= Stamina Warden or Nightblade. To lump the majority in with the minority is completely asinine and only people with little to no experience on aforementioned majority would make such a broad claim. As such nothing in this post should be taken as valid.Edited by templesus on September 8, 2018 2:32AM4 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Let me make something clear for anyone who believes a thing in this post; Stamina Templar, Sorcerer, and Dragonknight =\= Stamina Warden or Nightblade. To lump the majority in with the minority is completely asinine and only people with little to no experience on aforementioned majority would make such a broad claim. As such nothing in this post should be taken as valid.
I do not understand your post. I am strictly talking about how stamina is able to be way more evasive than anyone playing magicka. This is not a class thread, this is a resource thread.2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »Let me make something clear for anyone who believes a thing in this post; Stamina Templar, Sorcerer, and Dragonknight =\= Stamina Warden or Nightblade. To lump the majority in with the minority is completely asinine and only people with little to no experience on aforementioned majority would make such a broad claim. As such nothing in this post should be taken as valid.
I do not understand your post. I am strictly talking about how stamina is able to be way more evasive than anyone playing magicka. This is not a class thread, this is a resource thread.
Go ahead and take a look at the charts the class reps posted for community opinion on sustain. And look which class has the lowest.
Hint: it’s stamina3 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »Let me make something clear for anyone who believes a thing in this post; Stamina Templar, Sorcerer, and Dragonknight =\= Stamina Warden or Nightblade. To lump the majority in with the minority is completely asinine and only people with little to no experience on aforementioned majority would make such a broad claim. As such nothing in this post should be taken as valid.
I do not understand your post. I am strictly talking about how stamina is able to be way more evasive than anyone playing magicka. This is not a class thread, this is a resource thread.
Go ahead and take a look at the charts the class reps posted for community opinion on sustain. And look which class has the lowest.
Hint: it’s stamina
Even the class reps admitted that those charts are completely skewed. People weren't honest about their class's abilities.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »
Base Stamina and Base Magicka amounts...
As an example, I want to be able to utilize my excess 50k magicka pool to sprint and roll dodge, leaving my small 10k stamina pool solely for breaking free; at the cost of running a frost staff.Edited by Unknown_Redemption on September 8, 2018 4:16AM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »Unknown_Redemption wrote: »
Base Stamina and Base Magicka amounts...
As an example, I want to be able to utilize my excess 50k magicka pool to sprint and roll dodge, leaving my small 10k stamina pool solely for breaking free; at the cost of running a frost staff.
Wow, I was completely confused by your verbiage. Apologies.
At any rate, that sounds like a 100% build issue. It is entirely possible to achieve 20k+ stam on a mag build with relative ease and still dish out good damage. There are an ABUNDANCE of sets that provide you with amazing stamina sustain while being very strong magicka sets, 2 of which are crafted.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP says a lot of nothing in what seems to be an attempt to demonstrate their opinion.
I want to know what campaign (s)he is running in that has an 8:1 ratio of Stam to Mag players and how (s)he came up with those numbers since it seem very specific.
Also, using Fengrush as an example is really absurd since he is one of the more experienced players that we can point to. That entire point lacks any substance even worth delving into.
Basing ones argument on nothing more than generalizations will do little to get the attention of Zos. I expect they can see right through this thin argument.1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »Let me make something clear for anyone who believes a thing in this post; Stamina Templar, Sorcerer, and Dragonknight =\= Stamina Warden or Nightblade. To lump the majority in with the minority is completely asinine and only people with little to no experience on aforementioned majority would make such a broad claim. As such nothing in this post should be taken as valid.
I do not understand your post. I am strictly talking about how stamina is able to be way more evasive than anyone playing magicka. This is not a class thread, this is a resource thread.
Go ahead and take a look at the charts the class reps posted for community opinion on sustain. And look which class has the lowest.
Hint: it’s stamina
Thomas Jefferson said something to the extent that once people can vote for their own welfare, democracy is lost. Same is true here. People had no benefit in answering those surveys honestly... actually the inverse is true. What needs to be done is a hard look at what classes/ races are the most predominant in pvp/pve using a host of metrics that are readily available to zenimax. This data can then be used to either bring the other classes/races up to par or to bring down the classes/ races that are performing better than their peers. I prefer to buff but that can easily lead to power creep so it needs to be done cautiously with plenty of data to back it up. Zenimax needs to lose the 0 to 100 nerf/ buff dial. I do data analytics for a living and so if Zos wants to hit me up, I'll be willing to render my services... for a small fee of course
Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭OP says a lot of nothing in what seems to be an attempt to demonstrate their opinion.
I want to know what campaign (s)he is running in that has an 8:1 ratio of Stam to Mag players and how (s)he came up with those numbers since it seem very specific.
Also, using Fengrush as an example is really absurd since he is one of the more experienced players that we can point to. That entire point lacks any substance even worth delving into.
Basing ones argument on nothing more than generalizations will do little to get the attention of Zos. I expect they can see right through this thin argument.
Stam Wardens are often referred to as Immortal because of their ability to leverage all resources into a powerhouse of damage and survivability. I name dropped as he is well known and people can likely see what I am talking about.
Keep in mind this is a suggestion about allowing Frost Staves to get more utility, nothing else.
Edited by Unknown_Redemption on September 8, 2018 6:27AM1 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭
You're fine, I had to clean up the OP anyhow. Even still, people are reflexing into a 'leave Brittney alone' mentality. I also understand there are ways to make a split resource build work, but it does cut down on a tremendous amount of magicka damage; as max magicka translates into higher dps.
Wow, I was completely confused by your verbiage. Apologies.
At any rate, that sounds like a 100% build issue. It is entirely possible to achieve 20k+ stam on a mag build with relative ease and still dish out good damage. There are an ABUNDANCE of sets that provide you with amazing stamina sustain while being very strong magicka sets, 2 of which are crafted.
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are people really going to come in here and pretend Stamina isn't dominant?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE6 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Are people really going to come in here and pretend Stamina isn't dominant?
Thank you for the direct statement.Edited by Unknown_Redemption on September 8, 2018 6:50AM2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Are people really going to come in here and pretend Stamina isn't dominant?
Player skill >1 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Are people really going to come in here and pretend Stamina isn't dominant?
Player skill >
Negative. If there was a third resource (lets call it Vitality) solely used for sprinting and roll dodging things would be a lot different in PvP evasion techniques. But would mean changing the entire game design and no one wants that.2 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭The issue is more movement speed than anything else. Swift jewelry and easier access to major expedition are the culprits.
Roll dodging still eats stamina the same way wards or heals eat magicka when defending yourself. Of course it scales way better, but it's not like it's exclusive to stamina classes.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NupidStoob wrote: »The issue is more movement speed than anything else. Swift jewelry and easier access to major expedition are the culprits.
Roll dodging still eats stamina the same way wards or heals eat magicka when defending yourself. Of course it scales way better, but it's not like it's exclusive to stamina classes.
Magicka builds can use Swift jewelry and speed pots, too. That doesn't change the fact that Magicka builds are extremely vulnerable to roots and snares, but Stamina are not. Like I said in the #NerfSwift thread... Forward Momentum and Shuffle are the real culprits causing the mobility gap between Mag and Stam.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Solution:
Run argonian mag dk with skooma smugglers, clever alchemist and bloodspawn.2 -
Unknown_Redemption✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »[
Magicka builds can use Swift jewelry and speed pots, too. That doesn't change the fact that Magicka builds are extremely vulnerable to roots and snares, but Stamina are not. Like I said in the #NerfSwift thread... Forward Momentum and Shuffle are the real culprits causing the mobility gap between Mag and Stam.
Which explains why a lot of magicka pvpers are now running 2h back bar. Outside of BGs, here and there, I don't PvP and I guess there is a lot more going on besides stat pools.
I remember when IC was first released they had to nerf shields because of how 'silly' they became. Looks like we are here again, but on the other side of the coin. Ill check out your thread.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah lets nerf mobility so stam is basically shite green magicka with little to no build paths, nor any utility , right lads?
Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 8, 2018 6:56PM0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unknown_Redemption wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Unknown_Redemption wrote: »I am sure there is going to be some blow back here, but I wanted to post this regardless. PvP does not appear balanced between Stamina and Magicka, and it seems the ratio of players running stamina to magicka is about 8:1.
I have been watching Fengrush's Twitch for some time, and dont get me wrong he is exceptionally talented a great web personality, but this should make it clear to the developers how OP stamina can be. I understand the skill ceiling is higher, but that doesnt mean they should pull so far ahead in regards to PvP performance. This is the most apparent on Stamina Wardens, as they can sprint, roll dodge, hide, and set up a lethal combo while magicka users try to simply catch up.
Why not give Ice Staves the ability to Drain Magicka while Sprinting or Dodge Rolling instead of having to tri-stat everything to gain only a small amount of suitability.
stamina is far from broken. if you put two extremely talented people against each other one on magicka and one on stamina. most of the time itll come down to luck. ive seen videos of stamina dragonknights vs magicka dragonknights and magicka can dominate over the stamina version very easily due to magicka has access to more abilities. stamsorcs and mag sorcs same thing except mag sorcs have access to ungodly level shields and the ability to super burst if they build for it. warden not even gonna talk about that class as its a pile of crap. nightblades are probly the only class thats balanced in pvp their glass cannons that unless played right get murdered. and templars that class damage wise makes barely little sense as its probly one of the weakest classes in the game period in damage.
Its not that Magicka or Stamina are broken, it that stamina builds have a lot more survivability due to evasive actions. I feel the above solution would be the best option; as it doesnt require any nerfs, just extends a different build option.
magicka can dodge forever too. plus they have probly the better of the suvivability pulls in the form of shields that yall can spam. stamina doesnt have that luxury without sacrificing some pretty significant damage0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't really get the suggestion.
What i am feeling is the forum mocks people talking about Hybrid builds, that they don't work. However most MagSorc are running tri stat food, engine guardian, amberplasm/shackle or both, in essence we are becoming quite hybrid.
Why couldn't half the CCs break free using magika? Would help.
(just shooting the idea out, haven't thought of wider implications) but principle wise i think that's what ur saying OPXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2
