jabrone77 wrote: »

Here's an older clip, but you can clearly see this player cannot die. He's throwing down tons of banners. He's doing nothing for defense, just endlessly spinning.
And the most interesting thing is that this is on ps4...a platform that players constantly say can't be hacked or cheated.
As much as its downplayed on this forum for whatever reason, cheating does happen.

https://youtu.be/8kLbQY3Trxk

I'll never understand how someone can look at a clip like this and say this doesn't happen.
One person, surrounded by 10 to 12 other players, taking no defensive measures, constantly throwing down ultimates, health cannot go to zero, and all on a console...something that according to this forum is impossible.

Well we all know that is just lag or a visual bug .. /s

I don’t often question players’ legitimacy... I do find myself increasingly questioning their integrity, however.

An example from yesterday:

Queued into a BG Deathmatch against a premade team of four pet sorcs each running familiar, twilight, and popping storm atro ult when off cooldown. The players themselves were absolute trash, and died easily when they got separated on occasion. For the most part, though, they did a good job of sticking together. Trying to target a player when there are twelve *** pets in the way is pretty difficult to do, as you can imagine. Trying to eliminate the pets was a non-starter, as there were so many of them, and the sorcs would just rune cage you when you tried. This utterly terrible no-skill team easymoded its way to a win with zero integrity whatsoever. The only way to deal with them would have been to lay down a crapton of AOEs, but of course, I was on a small group mostly single target build...

When I started pvping I would actively seek out top tier players and fight or duel them, then asked for a bit of advice, and they were always quite friendly. I don't care if I win or loose, I care about being extremely stubborn to kill so it's a good fight.

I played barley nothing but pvp on all classes, during the last 2 years. played the game for 3 years. I play 70% of the time small scale if i can find it. through my time i have done successful 1vx multiple times. my animation cancel is pretty much on point most of the time. I believe i know how to setup successful burst combos. have my defensive combos and feel pretty confident in the whole chest game against most (not all) players i meet in cyro. in BG, my higest kill count is 30 kills.

Nyladreas wrote: »

I've ran into a couple people today that just made me question whether it's even worth playing this game anymore. I'm talking about PvP participants in a CP campaign.

There are just some things that I don't understand at all. As an example

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after 10 seconds...

Or people who somehow manage to mash 4 attacks into 1 second while we fight. I know some of you will say lag, but I find it very hard to believe that there is some random lag spike all of a sudden that lets someone win like that. Because if it was true, then how come I never ever experience this myself? How come its always someone who's killing me? It doesn't add up.

Can somebody explain how are these things even possible? Why when I wear identical setups I doesn't change anything? This is open field combat too, no LoS, no Trick, Just Face to Face Fair combat. I'm about to just give up on the game. The next best thing is, whenever I politely ask these people what builds they use they either ignore it, or respond along the lines of "Secret" or some random profanity. Only got one response in 10.

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

Does anyone here know what I mean? Like... am I the only one? What am I missing... Was my character supposed to do something or get something? Are people just exploiting or hacking? I'm not a good player by a long shot but these simple things that really aren't a question of gameplay or playstyle... These inconsistencies, these huge factual number gaps.... It just doesn't add up. And sadly it makes me hate a really good game with a lot of potential.

I don't want to start any conspiracies or anything here, just truly trying to understand what's making me want to quit the game I love. Any constructive input would be appreciated. And once again, I'm not a good player but this just feels like something else is going on behind the scenes.

I played barley nothing but pvp on all classes, during the last 2 years. played the game for 3 years. I play 70% of the time small scale if i can find it. through my time i have done successful 1vx multiple times. my animation cancel is pretty much on point most of the time. I believe i know how to setup successful burst combos. have my defensive combos and feel pretty confident in the whole chest game against most (not all) players i meet in cyro. in BG, my higest kill count is 30 kills.

Still i face people in cyro, where the tankyness is just out right ridicules while they can keep up so high pressure that i cant heal, i cant turn him defensive, i cant turtle up. i cant do ***. i refuse to accept that i cant put up just a bit even fight. like i bet there are like 100k better players than me. But i would still believe that, with being around for so long. i should atleast make it hard for them. Push back some pressure. but nope. idk. its like there are defendly some "mike Tysons" out there who is just in a whole differend ball game. Or some messes with stats trough some cheat engine.

Ackwalan wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

CE does exist. It used to be more popular, but it is still used by some. I got very sad and frustrated when I faced that reality, but I moved on forward to realize that humans will always find a cheat/exploit etc... in order to be on top of others, even in a virtual game.


Each one has different ethical fundaments, I believe.

CE exists but its a memory hack and can only alter data that’s stored on the client. After CE weekend, most data was moved away from being stored client side and swapped to server side.

Some data is still stored client side though. Primarily it’s position data. Cheat engine as we knew it is no longer possible, but theoretically it would be possible to cheat to speed yourself up. There are many server anti-cheat algorithms running that would catch that, so I doubt it’s a problem, but it’s theoretically possible.

Targeting is another thing that CE could be used for. There wouldn’t be a CE hack that could make your own character untargetable, but there could be a hack that would give you 360degree targeting or longer range on abilities (since Los and range checks are done client side, not server side)

But most of the things people complain about in association with hacking just aren’t possible.

The only people that know what CE does in it's current form, are the ones that bought it.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand how CE roughly works.

Ackwalan wrote: »

There are people that cheat, that doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me, is how some people defend those that cheat.

When you get called a cheater regularly by clueless people things like that tend to happen. I´m giving almost everyone accused the benefit of doubt - or follow the good old "innocent until proven guilty".

There are just way to many accusations thrown around without any proof (and for most them them the proof can´t exist because they´re baseless assumptions made due to lack of knowledge).

also don't forget the unkillable tanks that kill you in two spells while 1vXed.

maybe some people hack only a little bit with cheat engine, like adding 300 weapon damage, 300 recovery, 3k hp, etc, so it's not so obvious but having a help

Nyladreas wrote: »

I've ran into a couple people today that just made me question whether it's even worth playing this game anymore. I'm talking about PvP participants in a CP campaign.

As much as I criticize the game, it is worth playing.

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

These players have probably spent hundreds of hours honing their skills in duels and willingly going solo in Cyrodiil too such a degree they act instinctively and correctly. No doubt some of these "medium" users are in heavy or at least have powerful heavy sets like 7th on jewelry. My experience with strong stamina players is that they either put a lot of pressure on opponents so they don't take much damage or have the ability to avoid a lot of damage.

Those that don't bounce around all the time and know what they are doing build for it. For example, a stam sorc has strong healing. Also troll king is a really good set. Some medium builds are very powerful at healing.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after 10 seconds...

That's a bit high regen to be called a "cannon" IMHO. I prefer regen builds, but whatever you are running is capable of moar damage. In any event, I suspect that *sometimes* your surprise attacks get mitigated and that's what you are remembering, whereas the majority of surprise attacks a re higher than that. It's only natural.

Or people who somehow manage to mash 4 attacks into 1 second while we fight. I know some of you will say lag, but I find it very hard to believe that there is some random lag spike all of a sudden that lets someone win like that. Because if it was true, then how come I never ever experience this myself? How come its always someone who's killing me? It doesn't add up.

I have to cringe at this because I pretty much only see this from inexperienced and frustrated players. It is perfectly normal to get hit with three things in a single Global Cooldown (ability, light attack, proc) and people can "macro" all day but the game's global cooldown system will prevent a macro from "mashing" multiple skills in a single second.

If you fight my or any templar, you might hit with 6 attacks in a single GCD (light attack, skill, Valkyn proc, Eclipse, Weapon enchant, Purifying Light explosion).

Can somebody explain how are these things even possible? Why when I wear identical setups I doesn't change anything? This is open field combat too, no LoS, no Trick, Just Face to Face Fair combat. I'm about to just give up on the game. The next best thing is, whenever I politely ask these people what builds they use they either ignore it, or respond along the lines of "Secret" or some random profanity. Only got one response in 10.

See above. Also, I'm not so sure about identical setups. I fight a fair number of people with high ranks that are not running strong builds. I'm running around light armor without any mitigation and they're hitting me with 500 damage on their sweep attacks which is terrible. Also, even if the builds are identical, they still have to be played up to their potential, otherwise it might as well be a bad build.

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

Personal opinion here. Just smile and rez at wayshrine. No matter how good you think you are or may be, there is going to be people out there who are better. And, the game itself plays in such a way that even if you are good, you're going to get zerged down repeatedly. It's just not worth getting pissed off when you die or get zerged down because it comes with the territory. Does this mean I like it? Of course not, it means that the game doesn't change me and the people I live with think I'm a nice person when I PvP.

If I lose a fight I feel I should have won or even if I win a fight I felt I got lucky, I try to check my combat logs and analyze exactly how good the 10 skills I put on my bar helped me in the fight. This is far more productive than thinking of a witty hate-tell. I can say the vast majority of fights I lose are pretty much my fault: I was not keeping up my buffs, not disciplined in my DoTs, was overly aggressive, or my opponent had a better strategy.

Does anyone here know what I mean? Like... am I the only one? What am I missing... Was my character supposed to do something or get something? Are people just exploiting or hacking? I'm not a good player by a long shot but these simple things that really aren't a question of gameplay or playstyle... These inconsistencies, these huge factual number gaps.... It just doesn't add up. And sadly it makes me hate a really good game with a lot of potential.

Yes. Most of us have been there. No doubt there are some hackers, but in my estimation the vast majority are not or at least are so bad that even with cheats they are very beatable. I play on a laptop with a $10 mouse on the worst race-spec combo in the game and I do OK.

@Koolio hit the nail on the head about practice. It makes a world of difference. you act instinctively and correctly instead of having to think and making sub-optimal plays. I am a noticeably better player on my magplar than I am on my stam warden even though on paper the stam warden has a stronger build. Its still me, the computer is still the same, what's different it the amount of /played I have.

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

@Nyladreas Genuinely sorry it's been so frustrating for you. I know lag has a ton to do with the attacks landing all at once. That is always frustrating to me as well.

As far as the high sustain builds, I think it can come down to timing abilities and procs down to precise moments which is also affected by the lag.

Bout a month ago I ran across another player in cyro while we were both mounted and coming toward each other, I was able to get a light attack and ability off and he was just standing there for a few seconds not doing anything. Fired off another LA and skill and still nothing. His health bar all of a sudden dropped and he was moving, figuring it was lag I let him heal up and then we started.

Ended up being a fun fight but I think too many others either wouldn't notice the other player was lagging or would enjoy taking advantage of the situation.

My two cents anyway.

This is exactly what happens. Disparity between computers is important. You are rare among the PvP players who think it's a win for them if they beat up on a defenseless person. A person like you is to be applauded as an example of what should be done. It's the rest of them that make me never want to PvP. It's also why I have never gotten the skyshards in Cyro. I've been here since pre-launch Beta. I love the game. Just not PvP areas. I like pvp itself, when I CHOOSE to play it. I also have never played Imperial City because that is forced PvP. By forced I mean you can't enter without getting ganked. If all pvp players were like you, then I would enjoy it more.

Koolio wrote: »

Practice.

I’ve played PvP everyday for years. Even the first year and a half I played all the time and thought I was in top tier. I almost got emperor multiple times and killed 90% of the players I saw. But I was not good at all. When dueling came out my friend wanted to duel me for practice. The knowledge level he had over me (even though we played together) was incredible. I never landed any combos decent damage or was able to sustain.

I spent 500k that day trying everything to win. I won maybe 1:100. We dueled everyday. All day. Multiple characters builds everything. I would wear the cheesiest stuff to win ad still lose over and over. Then one day it clicked. I saw the openings. The mistakes. I still can’t really beat that one friend but it just happened.

I could fight someone for 10 secs and know their build to the letter. I saw their rotations being off or messed up. When to take advantage. It takes time and lots of it. I used 1000 potions the fist day. And I thought I was good.


Now it the same for almost everyone I fight. They either are on the level or their not. Even some of my friends who are 5 stars ad really good in open world don’t stand a chance. It just takes time. Eventually it will click. You’ll see the game like Neo in the Matrix.

I will suggest getting a good friend and both wearing 2 sustain sets and dueling for at least 2 hours a day. This will teach you a lot. After 2-3 weeks of that ask a few more friends to join.

I always think they have macros set up to do their battles. I know many people in WoW and other games that did that.