MagDen still sucking even at 52k? Or just class hate? (pve)

Joxer61 · September 2018

This is to sort of piggyback off @gamer559 's post in regards to Wardens. If one was to pay attention to what is posted then you wouldn't play a Magden for pve...but, I see vids of builds doing 52k + and the maker of said vid stating that the class and build is quite solid for pve.?
So, is this more of a one off sort of situation and she is just really good at playing the class or are they decent enough to hold their own in a run? I get that other classes bring more to the table, like DK's and NB's and Templars, they all bring something special to the fight other than their good looks. But isn't there a spot for a class/build to just dps as well? Does "everyone" who dps' s have to bring a snack as well, so to speak? Now I am asking in reference to just normal stuffs, no speed runs and that.
So yea, how can 52k be a crap class unless no one else can come close to those numbers?

Valrien · September 2018

No one cares about class in relation to normal content/non-HM vet content

Plus Magden does more DPS than Sorc

They don't fit into the meta speedrun comp though, sadly.

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

I've seen quite a few videos of magwardens hitting above 40k dps, the videos in which they're getting +50k dps is usually someone apply buffs and orbs to help, but regardless 50kdps on a magwarden is pretty insane since most people (myself included) wouldn't have really thought that would be possible.

With my warden I get pretty good dps, I'm not getting 40k dps, but I'm also not maxed cp and missing a few pieces of gear. I do use my warden in the trials I run. I wear master architect, so I guess the only thing I can provide is Major Slayer to my closest two allies in addition to ele drain if no one else is applying it. The biggest problem with wardens is pretty much being forced to have to use the bear ultimate, and since the bear is your only 'execute' there's not a ton of other options and a lack of a CC. Nearly all magdens have exactly the same skills slotted since we have very, very, few options outside of animal companions for damage in our "class" skills. Of course there's the psijic, destruction staff, among other skill lines where we can fill in voids to help make a more complete dps role, but wardens still need some help.

royo · September 2018

Pet magden, petless magsorc, and rangeplar all have very similar dps in raid scenarios. Pet mechanics significantly impact magden dps on many of the fights. They are all clearly outclassed by top level magblades, of course.

Sparr0w · September 2018

royo wrote: »

Pet magden, petless magsorc, and rangeplar all have very similar dps in raid scenarios. Pet mechanics significantly impact magden dps on many of the fights. They are all clearly outclassed by top level magblades, of course.

Rangeplar are 2nd to MagNB from what I've seen, actually our parsing traditional melee magplars

royo · September 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

royo wrote: »

Pet magden, petless magsorc, and rangeplar all have very similar dps in raid scenarios. Pet mechanics significantly impact magden dps on many of the fights. They are all clearly outclassed by top level magblades, of course.

Rangeplar are 2nd to MagNB from what I've seen, actually our parsing traditional melee magplars

Possible, depending on the fight. What parses have you seen? I did a number of tests on Zhaj and they were all around 57-63.

Danksta · September 2018

If you aren't running for score then you can run whatever class you want.

Joxer61 · September 2018

royo wrote: »

Pet magden, petless magsorc, and rangeplar all have very similar dps in raid scenarios. Pet mechanics significantly impact magden dps on many of the fights. They are all clearly outclassed by top level magblades, of course.

But...but...isn't da bear a no no in runs? I mean yea, its a big chunk of dps but Northern Storm aint to shabby, if it means an insta kick cuz you have a yogi?

Joxer61 · September 2018

Danksta wrote: »

If you aren't running for score then you can run whatever class you want.

Aw, so true but can you do dungeons and such (again, no speed/score runs) and not get kicked? Playing "what you want" is all great in theory but equates to f all if you cant do any content.

Danksta · September 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

If you aren't running for score then you can run whatever class you want.

Aw, so true but can you do dungeons and such (again, no speed/score runs) and not get kicked? Playing "what you want" is all great in theory but equates to f all if you cant do any content.

You can also get kicked from dungeon pugs playing a nightblade...

Me personally, I don't kick people from pugs. If they're bad I just toss them in my backpack. And just because you don't play a meta class doesn't mean you can't harder than someone else does on a nightblade.

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

If you aren't running for score then you can run whatever class you want.

Aw, so true but can you do dungeons and such (again, no speed/score runs) and not get kicked? Playing "what you want" is all great in theory but equates to f all if you cant do any content.

I've run just about every trial with the bear and haven't been kicked or heard crap from others about it, at least not yet lol. If I'm pulling my share of dps and doing the mechs I don't see what the issue is. Now, if I'm constantly hanging out in the red or ignoring mechanics then I would expect to get kicked no matter what class I entered with.

I do admit sometimes feeling a little self conscious about using the bear at times only because I know how people truly feel about bear users after reading various past posts on the forums. Like I said though if I'm pulling my weight in dps and doing the mechanics, then I really don't see what the problem is. I also run into a lot of people who don't even have the warden class and their opinions are based off of other people's opinions.

Masel · September 2018

Danksta wrote: »

If you aren't running for score then you can run whatever class you want.

This, dps is so high right now that unless you run for score, you can use whatever you want. There's a magden tick-tock-tormentor on PC EU for example.

Problem is that besides the wish to run one because you like the class, there's no reason to bring one over a magblade...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

I will keep it as simple as possible. Every class is viable DPS in PVE if your goal is to reasonably complete content. Every class can break 40k selfbuffed on a 6 mill dummy which is PLENTY of damage.

If your goal is to push scores and potentially compete for a number one spot, it's play NB or GTFO. You might see one stamplar, and you might see one sorc (but sorc is usually the second healer at this point.)

Look at the pad 3 Rakkhat burns on youtube. Group comp is basically 5 stamblades, 3 Mageblades, 1 temp healer, 1 sorc healer, 1 DK tank, 1 Warden/DK Tank.

NB is first place for both ranged (magic) and melee (stamina) DPS. Templar is currently second place for both. They are viable in all but about 4 raid groups.

MooseKnuckles88 · September 2018

I think most people would agree that wardens along with most other classes can't hold a candle to nightblades as far as dps master senseis' and their group dps.

Xerge · September 2018

The problem is a nightblade with lesser gear, unleveled skills, class/weapon skills and passives not all accounted for will out damage a warden who put in exceptional effort into their character. I did just that recently and when I can faceroll on the nightblade and pull more dps it's just discouraging. I'm at the point where I don't know if I should put any more time and effort into my poor warden or jump the nightblade bandwagon.

Plus the lack of communication about game/class vision is disheartening as well.

The nightblade>everyone else is felt on all levels of play and becomes obvious once you do a bit of investigation.

It is as if the OG classes were designed with roles in mind and later on the idea of 'play your way' was reinforced. Then you release a 'hybrid' class which was designed to do all roles but falls short do due missing mechanics like an execute.

Working as intended.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2018

Xerge wrote: »

The problem is a nightblade with lesser gear, unleveled skills, class/weapon skills and passives not all accounted for will out damage a warden who put in exceptional effort into their character. I did just that recently and when I can faceroll on the nightblade and pull more dps it's just discouraging. I'm at the point where I don't know if I should put any more time and effort into my poor warden or jump the nightblade bandwagon.

Plus the lack of communication about game/class vision is disheartening as well.

The nightblade>everyone else is felt on all levels of play and becomes obvious once you do a bit of investigation.

It is as if the OG classes were designed with roles in mind and later on the idea of 'play your way' was reinforced. Then you release a 'hybrid' class which was designed to do all roles but falls short do due missing mechanics like an execute.

Working as intended.

Actually, I am not sure I totally agree with that. NB is obviously the master class. But they also have the most unforgiving rotation. A really good sorc or templar is going to beat an average NB. I wont really comment on mag warden. I leveled one to 50, hopped into VMA for a slow but relatively painless clear, and shelved it. Haha That said, they are capable of doing more than enough damage for all content.

NB is on top for basically two reasons. First, they are the best designed class from the ground up. Their entire kit fits together and plays well together, especially in a raid where they scale arguably better than anyone with all the crit. You pull too many threads out of that, and NB falls hard and fast. Second, they reward skill greater than any other class. There is perhaps the biggest gap in terms of damage level between the top score runners and the average player in ESO than in any other MMO i have seen. This gap has widened significantly over the last year due to the rise of the NB and the dynamic rotations. Probably 80% of the playerbase will pull more damage on a sorc or a templar than a NB, if not more.

Joxer61 · September 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I will keep it as simple as possible. Every class is viable DPS in PVE if your goal is to reasonably complete content. Every class can break 40k selfbuffed on a 6 mill dummy which is PLENTY of damage.

If your goal is to push scores and potentially compete for a number one spot, it's play NB or GTFO. You might see one stamplar, and you might see one sorc (but sorc is usually the second healer at this point.)

Look at the pad 3 Rakkhat burns on youtube. Group comp is basically 5 stamblades, 3 Mageblades, 1 temp healer, 1 sorc healer, 1 DK tank, 1 Warden/DK Tank.

NB is first place for both ranged (magic) and melee (stamina) DPS. Templar is currently second place for both. They are viable in all but about 4 raid groups.

Perfect! Good to hear as sentence #1 is what I am after and sentence #2 is something I wont be doing for some time, if ever. So thanks for that feedback!