Does anyone ever question someone's legitimacy in PVP?

Takes-No-Prisoner · September 2018

Seems like you’re at that particular stage where you see there is room for improvement, yet do not grasp certain reasonings why you’re struggling.

It’s going to be fine friend. Do not get frustrated.

Instead of using fruststion as a catalyst for thinking, ask yourself “Why?” My first impressions when I read your OP is that the build you’re running is probably fine, it is your decision making that is not fine.

Making the correct decision in every conceivable moment is no easy task. There is not always a clear answer as to whether or not engaging the target at one particular time is the best for you. I would advice this, write up situations you run into that cause frustration. Then lets discuss the decisions being made by you and your opponent. This way I can help give you some guidance and rules to go by to keep yourself alive and in the battle.

idk · September 2018

Read first part of what OP said and it does not seem to tie into the title. Even the first sentence seems to be one topic and the two paragraphs afterwards are a second which seems to become discombobulated rant going into a complaint on medium armor and a poor PvP build.

If I am wrong please tell me if it is worth reading further.

DeadlyRecluse · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

No, you send hate tells because you let your emotions get the better of you when someone else's digital dress-up man kills your digital dress-up man. That's on you.

Nyladreas · September 2018

idk wrote: »

Read first part of what OP said and it does not seem to tie into the title. Even the first sentence seems to be one topic and the two paragraphs afterwards are a second which seems to become discombobulated rant going into a complaint on medium armor and a poor PvP build.

If I am wrong please tell me if it is worth reading further.

It's not supposed to be a rant. I'm trying to explain how I feel and what makes me question these things.

Gameplay and playstyle is one thing but to be unable to replicate numerical results on a theoretical standing still target seems strange to me.

I'm trying to ask questions because I'm way out of the picture it seems. But that's besides the point now. I'm getting a bit more insight into what I was missing now.

idk · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Read first part of what OP said and it does not seem to tie into the title. Even the first sentence seems to be one topic and the two paragraphs afterwards are a second which seems to become discombobulated rant going into a complaint on medium armor and a poor PvP build.

If I am wrong please tell me if it is worth reading further.

It's not supposed to be a rant. I'm trying to explain how I feel and what makes me question these things.

Gameplay and playstyle is one thing but to be unable to replicate numerical results on a theoretical standing still target seems strange to me.

I'm trying to ask questions because I'm way out of the picture it seems. But that's besides the point now. I'm getting a bit more insight into what I was missing now.

You state it is not a rant but what you go on to explain is one. However . . .

Have you thought that your "theoretical standing" is wrong? If you are coming off as weak sauce then either your build or your playstyle need work. Maybe both. Most that theorycraft their builds often choose stuff they think is cool or will work and are disappointed when it does not.

I would start with posting what your build is and ask for help. The playstyle is something you have to figure out yourself

Nyladreas · September 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

No, you send hate tells because you let your emotions get the better of you when someone else's digital dress-up man kills your digital dress-up man. That's on you.

No it's not. Period. And it'd be nice if people understood my situation than just respond like that. Those who play with me would be shocked I ever responded like that to anyone ever.

This game is a huge source of stress for me and there has never been any other game that has ever made me send a hate tell before. The sole fact that unexplained things happen that raise giant questionmarks, people's effort to harass and grief you, that's why I get mad and then let my emotions loose.

It's a) the game not really telling you anything and b) people acting like they're born geniuses.

VaranisArano · September 2018

Unless the timestamps on my combat log confirm the oddity of whatever I noticed, I usually chalk it up to lag, me not being as good as I think I am, or the enemy being better than I think they are.

RinaldoGandolphi · September 2018

To the OP the game is fundamentally broken both from a technical perspective as well as a balance and gear perspective.

What you see on your screen isn’t even accurate 50% of the time due to server side lag. Then you have things like Vitality Pots with Lingering Health and healing that are just flat out broken beyond belief hence why they are usually banned in most duels. You combine those with Troll King, Vigor, Rally, and other increased healing metrics and it’s pretty crazy what you can pull off. I’m not even going to touch on the multitude of other sets in this game that are flat out broken OP that I really can’t belive these devs actually put that stuff in the game.

Due to the crazy amount of front loaded burst damage that’s now possible folks have begun building very tanky and relying on bleeds and procs to kill people while being able to take the front loaded burst on the chin taking very little damage. Bleeds and procs are the most efficient form of damage because they are free. The fact you can still get a 13k dawnbreaker on such a tanky build drives this point home to a tee.

I don’t think there are very many people who cheat anymore. Everyone who cared enough to cheat left long ago due to terrible performance and lag.

The OP is a pretty good player from my observations, but I think he is chasing the dragon when it comes to eso. This game hasn’t really been balanced since before they brought us CP. back in 1.x fights were games of resource management and tactical thinking, fights today are more about front loaded burst due to the insane amount of sustain everyone has (even in no cp sustain is far greater then it was in 1.4)

This has left us with a very casual friendly button mashing burst damage game that frankly lacks most of the depth of the 2014 version. There is a reason most of the old school players are gone it’s brcayse class balance and combat is trash along with lagggy performance issues.

Anyways, lots of broken stuff in the game try not and get so upset about stuff this game hasn’t been competitive since like 2014 and is a big reaso guys like Sypher left.

Nyladreas · September 2018

idk wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Read first part of what OP said and it does not seem to tie into the title. Even the first sentence seems to be one topic and the two paragraphs afterwards are a second which seems to become discombobulated rant going into a complaint on medium armor and a poor PvP build.

If I am wrong please tell me if it is worth reading further.

It's not supposed to be a rant. I'm trying to explain how I feel and what makes me question these things.

Gameplay and playstyle is one thing but to be unable to replicate numerical results on a theoretical standing still target seems strange to me.

I'm trying to ask questions because I'm way out of the picture it seems. But that's besides the point now. I'm getting a bit more insight into what I was missing now.

You state it is not a rant but what you go on to explain is one. However . . .

Have you thought that your "theoretical standing" is wrong? If you are coming off as weak sauce then either your build or your playstyle need work. Maybe both. Most that theorycraft their builds often choose stuff they think is cool or will work and are disappointed when it does not.

I would start with posting what your build is and ask for help. The playstyle is something you have to figure out yourself

Okay let me explain it a little better.

My opponent wears the identical set and is of same class. Stands still.

I hit him - 2k
He hits me - 6k

That's why I'm asking these questions. It makes 0 sense.

Haashhtaag · September 2018

Sounds like it’s time to finally nerf nightblades.

Feanor · September 2018

@Nyladreas

To put things into perspective - my main since 2014 is a magSorc. Exclusively noCP. Sotha Sil most times. I run Hardened and Healing Ward and no Harness (though recently I tried experimenting with Combat Prayer instead of healing Ward).

It’s frustrating. But I have accepted that I’m not going to the lengths some others will go to when it comes to winning in this game. I use no poisons. I don’t run expensive pots. I don’t run damage proc sets. I try to have fun. And that’s the main thing. When you start to accept that it’s no use feeling bad about what the game does you can at least have fun sometimes.

DeadlyRecluse · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

No, you send hate tells because you let your emotions get the better of you when someone else's digital dress-up man kills your digital dress-up man. That's on you.

No it's not. Period. And it'd be nice if people understood my situation than just respond like that. Those who play with me would be shocked I ever responded like that to anyone ever.

This game is a huge source of stress for me and there has never been any other game that has ever made me send a hate tell before. The sole fact that unexplained things happen that raise giant questionmarks, people's effort to harass and grief you, that's why I get mad and then let my emotions loose.

It's a) the game not really telling you anything and b) people acting like they're born geniuses.

So you get stressed lash out at a human being because of what happens in a game. That's literally letting your emotions get the better of you.

That's on you. Full stop.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · September 2018

Some people spend hours and hours fine tuning and theorycrafting a perfect build and you just expect them to share with you because you want to copy their hard work? Go play PvE content where the meta is set in stone man, cyrodill isn’t for you.

Nyladreas · September 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

No, you send hate tells because you let your emotions get the better of you when someone else's digital dress-up man kills your digital dress-up man. That's on you.

No it's not. Period. And it'd be nice if people understood my situation than just respond like that. Those who play with me would be shocked I ever responded like that to anyone ever.

This game is a huge source of stress for me and there has never been any other game that has ever made me send a hate tell before. The sole fact that unexplained things happen that raise giant questionmarks, people's effort to harass and grief you, that's why I get mad and then let my emotions loose.

It's a) the game not really telling you anything and b) people acting like they're born geniuses.

So you get stressed lash out at a human being because of what happens in a game. That's literally letting your emotions get the better of you.

That's on you. Full stop.

Yes but for said reasons. It's still caused by the things unexplained to me, and for that reason I'm also apologizing in the OP.

I'm not somekinda *** who doesn't care. I actually very often feel really bad after I "lash out".

Maryal · September 2018

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Some people spend hours and hours fine tuning and theorycrafting a perfect build and you just expect them to share with you because you want to copy their hard work? Go play PvE content where the meta is set in stone man, cyrodill isn’t for you.

salteeeeeeeeeee

Nyladreas · September 2018

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Some people spend hours and hours fine tuning and theorycrafting a perfect build and you just expect them to share with you because you want to copy their hard work? Go play PvE content where the meta is set in stone man, cyrodill isn’t for you.

Never said I want to copy them. That's your assumption.

I'm rather trying to learn and adapt. Understand. Improve, know what to do better.

Pajor · September 2018

I know for me recently I got killed in 1 second, one nightblade was able to use 3 skills and 2 ultimates in the one second I heard the attack go off. I wasn't lagging, my attacks were hitting him.

daemonor · September 2018

Koolio wrote: »

Practice.

I’ve played PvP everyday for years. Even the first year and a half I played all the time and thought I was in top tier. I almost got emperor multiple times and killed 90% of the players I saw. But I was not good at all. When dueling came out my friend wanted to duel me for practice. The knowledge level he had over me (even though we played together) was incredible. I never landed any combos decent damage or was able to sustain.

I spent 500k that day trying everything to win. I won maybe 1:100. We dueled everyday. All day. Multiple characters builds everything. I would wear the cheesiest stuff to win ad still lose over and over. Then one day it clicked. I saw the openings. The mistakes. I still can’t really beat that one friend but it just happened.

I could fight someone for 10 secs and know their build to the letter. I saw their rotations being off or messed up. When to take advantage. It takes time and lots of it. I used 1000 potions the fist day. And I thought I was good.

Now it the same for almost everyone I fight. They either are on the level or their not. Even some of my friends who are 5 stars ad really good in open world don’t stand a chance. It just takes time. Eventually it will click. You’ll see the game like Neo in the Matrix.

I will suggest getting a good friend and both wearing 2 sustain sets and dueling for at least 2 hours a day. This will teach you a lot. After 2-3 weeks of that ask a few more friends to join.

ROFL I've somewhat experienced a fraction of this myself, by playing bgs over and over and getting my dragon leaps blocked over and over thinking how the *** can you actually pull that off, I catch myself blocking an ocassional leap or breaking free the second i get thrown in the air and think to myself how the *** did I just do that...

You have to go in expecting to suck hardcore and keep playing over and over and suddenly you will start to notice that you notice stuff that you couldn't notice before!

HEBREWHAMMERRR · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Some people spend hours and hours fine tuning and theorycrafting a perfect build and you just expect them to share with you because you want to copy their hard work? Go play PvE content where the meta is set in stone man, cyrodill isn’t for you.

Never said I want to copy them. That's your assumption.

I'm rather trying to learn and adapt. Understand. Improve, know what to do better.

There’s no “I win” build. The game is very much a Rock Paper Scissors with you being able to set yourself for a more favorable rock and paper but you’ll always find a counter. As people stated, find what class you’re specifically struggling against and practice dueling, learn counters, where you can adapt, etc. I’m a day one magblade and I get waxed by people in cyrodill all the time for different reasons but I can identify those reasons. I run vampire so I know I’m squishy to the Danny’s and leaps of the world and a magDK is a death sentence. However, I started running a heavy armor open world 2H build, keep most of my burst but give up a ton but gain forward momentum and added resistances. That being said, I know not to start a fight with a magsorc in an open field with this build. It’s all situational and you just really have to get a full grasp on a build you like, identify the weaknesses and adjust your play style accordingly. Hope this helps.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · September 2018

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Some people spend hours and hours fine tuning and theorycrafting a perfect build and you just expect them to share with you because you want to copy their hard work? Go play PvE content where the meta is set in stone man, cyrodill isn’t for you.

Never said I want to copy them. That's your assumption.

I'm rather trying to learn and adapt. Understand. Improve, know what to do better.

There’s no “I win” build. The game is very much a Rock Paper Scissors with you being able to set yourself for a more favorable rock and paper but you’ll always find a counter. As people stated, find what class you’re specifically struggling against and practice dueling, learn counters, where you can adapt, etc. I’m a day one magblade and I get waxed by people in cyrodill all the time for different reasons but I can identify those reasons. I run vampire so I know I’m squishy to the Danny’s and leaps of the world and a magDK is a death sentence. However, I started running a heavy armor open world 2H build, keep most of my burst but give up a ton but gain forward momentum and added resistances. That being said, I know not to start a fight with a magsorc in an open field with this build. It’s all situational and you just really have to get a full grasp on a build you like, identify the weaknesses and adjust your play style accordingly. Hope this helps.

Going off this, pay attention to ALL the cp and armor passives and identify small niches that can give you an advantage that people don’t really build around. That’s how these funky but good great builds get theorycrafted and built around. I would also recommend going on YouTube to @Blobsky page, he has a great video explaining CP allocation to min/max your points so you aren’t leaving anything on the table.

Irylia · September 2018

The shockcable is very good at weeding out these macro kids.

Weave heavy attacks while fighting (sustain + next skill dmg buff)

Impreg/brass medium + bs is probably making them feel tankier and I’m sure their buff up time is good

Deep_01 · September 2018

Like @Koolio said, it's all about playing defensive then waiting for an opening and practice. Also, pay attention to what you cast and which order and timing you do it. Especially heals and wards. Don't "over-cast" skills. Light attacks are food way to add pressure.

Gnozo · September 2018

Klasen wrote: »

I know for me recently I got killed in 1 second, one nightblade was able to use 3 skills and 2 ultimates in the one second I heard the attack go off. I wasn't lagging, my attacks were hitting him.

Impossible due to GCD of 1 second.

GCD: Global Cooldown. Cant get skills out faster then every 1 second. No matter if you use macros or Not.

What you experienced was either lag or a "Macroslice", wich has nothing to do with macros just player calling this bug like this. The bug makes you stuck in an animation but you are still able to kill cast the skills and when the bugged animation ends they all fire off at once. This pops up randomly.

Sanctum74 · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Read first part of what OP said and it does not seem to tie into the title. Even the first sentence seems to be one topic and the two paragraphs afterwards are a second which seems to become discombobulated rant going into a complaint on medium armor and a poor PvP build.

If I am wrong please tell me if it is worth reading further.

It's not supposed to be a rant. I'm trying to explain how I feel and what makes me question these things.

Gameplay and playstyle is one thing but to be unable to replicate numerical results on a theoretical standing still target seems strange to me.

I'm trying to ask questions because I'm way out of the picture it seems. But that's besides the point now. I'm getting a bit more insight into what I was missing now.

You state it is not a rant but what you go on to explain is one. However . . .

Have you thought that your "theoretical standing" is wrong? If you are coming off as weak sauce then either your build or your playstyle need work. Maybe both. Most that theorycraft their builds often choose stuff they think is cool or will work and are disappointed when it does not.

I would start with posting what your build is and ask for help. The playstyle is something you have to figure out yourself

Okay let me explain it a little better.

My opponent wears the identical set and is of same class. Stands still.

I hit him - 2k
He hits me - 6k

That's why I'm asking these questions. It makes 0 sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense when you factor in things like resistance, penetration, blocking, cp, traits, enchants, hot's, buffs, and debuffs. Same gear is not going to give the same results.

Like others have said keep practicing, play every class, learn your passives, watch videos of your fights, use the forums/YouTube/Google to learn more, etc and eventually you will get there.

Xerge · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

My opponent wears the identical set and is of same class. Stands still.

I hit him - 2k
He hits me - 6k

That's why I'm asking these questions. It makes 0 sense.

Assuming both players have -

1. 300CP
2. Proper CP distribution
3. 100% identical gear
4. Same class
5. Same race
6. Same mundu buff
7. 100% attribute points into choice stat(stam/mag)
8. no outside buffs

The situation you're trying to describe is not mathematically possible. We're all playing the same game. It's all numbers and making them work. It really is that simple. If you don't have the same numbers then you will do less. Now that you know you dont have the same numbers you need to begin to investigate the why. There are no bugs or hacks that bridge the gap youre seeing. Sorry. Also you're in for a hell of a ride once you finish the numbers game and move on to rock paper scissors with your numbers. That's going to frustrate you even more.

it really is tough love. For some quick advice i'd look into your CP points, gear, and possibly lining up skills better. If you truly are seeing that big of a gap then that's on your numbers somewhere; investigate and adjust accordingly.

Runs · September 2018

I don't think a minute goes by without someone questioning someone else's legitimacy in at least one of the PvP modes. It's pretty much normal to question what we don't understand. It also doesn't help that we have flat out seen real(proven) cheating over the years in this game. That just adds to the speculation when we aren't sure what a player is doing is intended or an exploit/hack.

I still prefer to believe when we encounter a player that we can't kill but does tons of damage to us(group or zerg) that they are just a better player. If you let yourself believe this you will have less stress over it.

It does sound like you need a break from the game though. Games should be fun, not stressful.

DanteYoda · September 2018

Script kiddies... Its an online competitive pvp game.. saying there is no hacking in this at all is incredibly naive..

Berenhir · September 2018

People who are so certain here there are no cheats in the game seem to not have played during the meteor fiasko where invincible players were flying through the air and dropped one meteor per second with 450k magicka to scale from. I was in Cyrodiil that day and it was the legit players' Pearl Harbor.

These things had been in the game for 2 years since launch and were actively used by a small portion of the playerbase that called everybody a liar or loled at people for accusing them of cheating.

So don't say there is no way of cheating in the game as you are unable to proof that.

However, most cheat accusations are wrong and can be dismantled by stringent analysis. That's why I suggested to record and replay wonky fights. In 99/100 cases I realize afterwards that what happened was not what I think happened.

AhPook_Is_Here · September 2018

No illegitimacy here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmwWN5dagQs

idk · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Read first part of what OP said and it does not seem to tie into the title. Even the first sentence seems to be one topic and the two paragraphs afterwards are a second which seems to become discombobulated rant going into a complaint on medium armor and a poor PvP build.

If I am wrong please tell me if it is worth reading further.

It's not supposed to be a rant. I'm trying to explain how I feel and what makes me question these things.

Gameplay and playstyle is one thing but to be unable to replicate numerical results on a theoretical standing still target seems strange to me.

I'm trying to ask questions because I'm way out of the picture it seems. But that's besides the point now. I'm getting a bit more insight into what I was missing now.

You state it is not a rant but what you go on to explain is one. However . . .

Have you thought that your "theoretical standing" is wrong? If you are coming off as weak sauce then either your build or your playstyle need work. Maybe both. Most that theorycraft their builds often choose stuff they think is cool or will work and are disappointed when it does not.

I would start with posting what your build is and ask for help. The playstyle is something you have to figure out yourself

Okay let me explain it a little better.

My opponent wears the identical set and is of same class. Stands still.

I hit him - 2k
He hits me - 6k

That's why I'm asking these questions. It makes 0 sense.

If your sitting in a duel with a friend testing this out something is different. Way different and more than one thing for a three fold difference.

If it’s not way different you document exactly how both are setup and the results and provide them to Zos. Document the he crit and non crit damage with multiple skills.

My guess is you’ll find there are a few things different of your talking about a different issue.