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Moonhunter Keep Feedback
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »I actually find WH to be the absolute best Dungeon DLC since it actually makes you learn mechanics, while still being fairly forgiving. I honestly want ZOS to go back and update all dungeons to be similar since I personally believe that dungeons shouldn't be as hand holding as they are on normal, it just stiffens the player base by not actually teaching them anything about mechanics and that's something I feel WH dungeons gets right, for the most part (Spriggan boss in MoS could be better explained because, while not hard to understand it does get frustrating that people do not understand that the synergy is made to save them and they just ignore it and take the hit instead)
Having said that, the courtyard WW boss could have an extra second or 2 added to their OHKO attack since, unless you have a ranged interrupt or a Gap closer on, you can potentially be in a terrible position to interrupt the boss and while I'm not particularly against the idea of range interrupts seeing some more common play in PvE content, I don't think that it should be made mandatory either.
Last fight in vMHK + HM is kinda forgiving and allows mistakes. You can recover even if 2 or 3 players wipe. vMoS + HM is the exact opposite of a forgiving fight :P0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »Your dps/healers refuse to use ranged interrupt skills like Crushing shock/ Venom arrow ? You as tank refuse to use shield charge ? fine, be prepared to die and wipe alot then.
I agree with most of your post, but I have a problem with this. Unless and until there is a "dual spec" type system or the ability to change morphs on the fly added to the game, basing a mechanic on needing an interrupt that someone may not have spec'd is unsatisfactory as a solution, specifically for a 'normal' dungeon.
I can understand that you want to squeeze out every last bit of dps out by choosing for instance the 'force pulse' morph over the 'crushing shock' morph but ask yourself is that last % of dps really worth killing your pug group over ? After all we agree the the goal is to complete the dungeon through group effort right ? Dps test dummies exist for 100% selfcentered 'I'm only interested in my dps numbers' play
Crushing shock as a morph is not just a simple meta in the sense of what is considered preferred nowadays between 2 viable options that would both get the job done. When it's the only classless tool that can do the job of ranged interrupting which is required in pugs to keep yourself and your team alive I think we must conclude that it's the one and only viable option and that ZOS doesn't really seem to give dps a choice there.
I do agree with you that preset morph specs would be a nice luxury though so you could have all options available at all times and switch to your "cc enabled" spec for fights that require it and "pure max dps" spec for fights that don't.0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭munster1404 wrote: »I don't see any problems slotting meta skills to accomplish certain content. But Tanks having to perform dodge roll of any kind sounds just wrong, imo. Defeats the image of slow, hulking heavily armored giants that represents Tanks in general.
It does indeed defeat that image but ZOS clearly has a totally different image in mind. One where medium armor dps can tank and tanks can dodgeroll. The "play you want with maximum versatility" style I guess.
You can still perfectly do it the classic way as bulky tank but then you need to be really properly classic bulky and have a classic healer. To be honest I usually block them this way by the way but I run with 45k health, 3-32K resistance and pop my enhanced igneous shield right before the big slam comes in. That makes me take the blow with relative ease. Whenever I'm in a pug with a lesser healer or one that likes to dps though...dodgeroll it is to avoid all that damage all together. Play the style/way you prefer I guess
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profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭That's not the issue I see with it, Munster. It's that magicka-based tanks aren't likely to have the stam to keep up dodge-rolling all the time, especially if they have to use their stam for anything else.
To be honest magicka tanks would have a harder time here (but very possible) and what they lack in stamina they got plenty in magicka. That means that their tactic would be to self shieldspam through this sort of damage. Something for which a DK tank does not have the magicka...0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »Your dps/healers refuse to use ranged interrupt skills like Crushing shock/ Venom arrow ? You as tank refuse to use shield charge ? fine, be prepared to die and wipe alot then.
I agree with most of your post, but I have a problem with this. Unless and until there is a "dual spec" type system or the ability to change morphs on the fly added to the game, basing a mechanic on needing an interrupt that someone may not have spec'd is unsatisfactory as a solution, specifically for a 'normal' dungeon.
I can understand that you want to squeeze out every last bit of dps out by choosing for instance the 'force pulse' morph over the 'crushing shock' morph but ask yourself is that last % of dps really worth killing your pug group over ? After all we agree the the goal is to complete the dungeon through group effort right ? Dps test dummies exist for 100% selfcentered 'I'm only interested in my dps numbers' play
Crushing shock as a morph is not just a simple meta in the sense of what is considered preferred nowadays between 2 viable options that would both get the job done. When it's the only classless tool that can do the job of ranged interrupting which is required in pugs to keep yourself and your team alive I think we must conclude that it's the one and only viable option and that ZOS doesn't really seem to give dps a choice there.
I do agree with you that preset morph specs would be a nice luxury though so you could have all options available at all times and switch to your "cc enabled" spec for fights that require it and "pure max dps" spec for fights that don't.
I personally run Crush Shock on my Tanks and Healers specifically for instances like this and it's saved my a** plenty of times I get stuck with people that don't understand the concept of Bash. Ofc, when I'm unable to for whatever reason (like I'm the one that gets pinned) the result usually ends up that we wipe because, again, bashing enemies might as well be rocket science to them considering how much they fail at it.Argonian forever1 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭Silver_Strider wrote: »I actually find WH to be the absolute best Dungeon DLC since it actually makes you learn mechanics, while still being fairly forgiving. I honestly want ZOS to go back and update all dungeons to be similar since I personally believe that dungeons shouldn't be as hand holding as they are on normal, it just stiffens the player base by not actually teaching them anything about mechanics and that's something I feel WH dungeons gets right, for the most part (Spriggan boss in MoS could be better explained because, while not hard to understand it does get frustrating that people do not understand that the synergy is made to save them and they just ignore it and take the hit instead)
Having said that, the courtyard WW boss could have an extra second or 2 added to their OHKO attack since, unless you have a ranged interrupt or a Gap closer on, you can potentially be in a terrible position to interrupt the boss and while I'm not particularly against the idea of range interrupts seeing some more common play in PvE content, I don't think that it should be made mandatory either.
Last fight in vMHK + HM is kinda forgiving and allows mistakes. You can recover even if 2 or 3 players wipe. vMoS + HM is the exact opposite of a forgiving fight :P
Once hunt phase is over you can recover. I know it's possible with 2 dead (no comment haha) but I can't remember if we ever fully recovered with 3 dead or not.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »Your dps/healers refuse to use ranged interrupt skills like Crushing shock/ Venom arrow ? You as tank refuse to use shield charge ? fine, be prepared to die and wipe alot then.
I agree with most of your post, but I have a problem with this. Unless and until there is a "dual spec" type system or the ability to change morphs on the fly added to the game, basing a mechanic on needing an interrupt that someone may not have spec'd is unsatisfactory as a solution, specifically for a 'normal' dungeon.
Lil secret I'ma let you in on, every character in the game can bash interrupt.
it's true it's possible actually without ranged interrupt but I'll admit it's really hard due to some rng. The trick is form a square with 4m distance between every player and try to maintain it the whole fight. After dodging aoe or doing mechanics keep coming back to this formation. It ensures you're far enough from eachother so that never 2 people get put down on the floor at once and yet close enough to sprint and bash when needed. But again it's challenging due to rng and not exactly an option for RGF pugs.
Yep, challenging. I think that's been the whole point of the dlc dungeons. You can't snooze your way through em. Yes, it does suck if you gotta PUG em. There's been some comments about separating the dungeon finder for the dlc ones, not a bad idea if you're stuck pugging em.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd2 -
munster1404 wrote: »I don't see any problems slotting meta skills to accomplish certain content. But Tanks having to perform dodge roll of any kind sounds just wrong, imo. Defeats the image of slow, hulking heavily armored giants that represents Tanks in general.
Tanks need to dodge roll many many mechanics in this game, usually to keep from being stunned or knocked back by something which can't be blocked and then killed by a second attack of some kind. Making sure you have enough stamina to dodge roll out of trouble is very important ( and usually what gets me killed ^^)1 -
munster1404✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »munster1404 wrote: »I don't see any problems slotting meta skills to accomplish certain content. But Tanks having to perform dodge roll of any kind sounds just wrong, imo. Defeats the image of slow, hulking heavily armored giants that represents Tanks in general.
It does indeed defeat that image but ZOS clearly has a totally different image in mind. One where medium armor dps can tank and tanks can dodgeroll. The "play you want with maximum versatility" style I guess.
You can still perfectly do it the classic way as bulky tank but then you need to be really properly classic bulky and have a classic healer. To be honest I usually block them this way by the way but I run with 45k health, 3-32K resistance and pop my enhanced igneous shield right before the big slam comes in. That makes me take the blow with relative ease. Whenever I'm in a pug with a lesser healer or one that likes to dps though...dodgeroll it is to avoid all that damage all together. Play the style/way you prefer I guess
It's the main reason why I avoid the arduous DLC stuff. Tbh, I'm a clumsy player, hence the tanking role is more appealing. Tanks usually means standing still, aggroing and taking hits that squishy group members can't handle. Points placed in block, damage mitigation and hp should at least count for something, imo.2 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »Your dps/healers refuse to use ranged interrupt skills like Crushing shock/ Venom arrow ? You as tank refuse to use shield charge ? fine, be prepared to die and wipe alot then.
I agree with most of your post, but I have a problem with this. Unless and until there is a "dual spec" type system or the ability to change morphs on the fly added to the game, basing a mechanic on needing an interrupt that someone may not have spec'd is unsatisfactory as a solution, specifically for a 'normal' dungeon.
I can understand that you want to squeeze out every last bit of dps out by choosing for instance the 'force pulse' morph over the 'crushing shock' morph but ask yourself is that last % of dps really worth killing your pug group over ? After all we agree the the goal is to complete the dungeon through group effort right ? Dps test dummies exist for 100% selfcentered 'I'm only interested in my dps numbers' play
Crushing shock as a morph is not just a simple meta in the sense of what is considered preferred nowadays between 2 viable options that would both get the job done. When it's the only classless tool that can do the job of ranged interrupting which is required in pugs to keep yourself and your team alive I think we must conclude that it's the one and only viable option and that ZOS doesn't really seem to give dps a choice there.
I do agree with you that preset morph specs would be a nice luxury though so you could have all options available at all times and switch to your "cc enabled" spec for fights that require it and "pure max dps" spec for fights that don't.
I personally run Crush Shock on my Tanks and Healers specifically for instances like this and it's saved my a** plenty of times I get stuck with people that don't understand the concept of Bash. Ofc, when I'm unable to for whatever reason (like I'm the one that gets pinned) the result usually ends up that we wipe because, again, bashing enemies might as well be rocket science to them considering how much they fail at it.
yes indeed. Same here. I always run crushing shock on the backbar of my healer in fights that require ranged interrupt. Not on the tank though since shield charge does the job just as good and better in many cases and doesn't force me into running destro on the backbar which is a subpar combination for tanks in these particular DLC dungeons imho0 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the heavy attack of the second(¿) boss needs to be tuned down (boss where you need to run and kill trees so it doesn't heal) I was doing this on normal with a friend and we had a level 38 tank that just died repeatedly, he couldn't survive the heavy attack. Of course we wiped multiple times because our DPS and our healer also couldn't tank the boss long enough to get the tank back up, even with roll dodging the heavies. I ended up logging off dps, getting on my vet 900cp tank and we were immediately able to complete (with 2 tanks, 1 dps and 1 healer). The poor level 38 tank left the dungeon after that fight because he felt he was not offering anything to the group.
Harsh experience for new players trying to learn dungeons.Edited by Inarre on September 7, 2018 2:37PM1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Both moon hunter keep and march of sacrifices are more easy than some of you might think. The fact that we can complete both dungeons with a cp 200 tank who are more dead than alive, say it all. Both last bosses you can just run around as a dd with boss aggro while other dd ress the tank. Even today, I did march of sacrifices and this tank was so bad we didn't even bother ressing him when he died from idk, air breathing on him? So we literally completed last boss as 2 dd and one heal, all we did was kiting and roll dodge at the right time. This is veteran btw not normal. I agree normal should be very easy, but when it can be soloed or carried by one person, it's easy enough imh.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends1 -
xRIVALENx✭✭✭
Once hunt phase is over you can recover. I know it's possible with 2 dead (no comment haha) but I can't remember if we ever fully recovered with 3 dead or not.
We did indeed recover with 3 dead, I even have video proof. Didn't run the audio through a virtual mixer so only I am on the audio capture and I forgot to unplug the optical connection so it all went through Dolby surround which made discord a bit tin sounding.
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BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Once hunt phase is over you can recover. I know it's possible with 2 dead (no comment haha) but I can't remember if we ever fully recovered with 3 dead or not.
We did indeed recover with 3 dead, I even have video proof. Didn't run the audio through a virtual mixer so only I am on the audio capture and I forgot to unplug the optical connection so it all went through Dolby surround which made discord a bit tin sounding.
Nerf tanks =pThey nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Once hunt phase is over you can recover. I know it's possible with 2 dead (no comment haha) but I can't remember if we ever fully recovered with 3 dead or not.
We did indeed recover with 3 dead, I even have video proof. Didn't run the audio through a virtual mixer so only I am on the audio capture and I forgot to unplug the optical connection so it all went through Dolby surround which made discord a bit tin sounding.
QFT, had the same happen to me last friday in vMOS HM. 3 Balorgh shades and a pack of wolves on me as tank (last man standing) so I pop magma shell ulti while they try to tear me apart and then sprint away from them right after the rezz finishes. The healer started rezzing the other 2 as I run around the islands playing Super Mario Bross style with mobs and we made a full recovery
It did feel quite exceptional though and tbh if I hadn't saved my ulti for that kind of emergency in the first place it would have been a wipe for sure ! =P0