Does anyone ever question someone's legitimacy in PVP?

Nyladreas · September 2018

I've ran into a couple people today that just made me question whether it's even worth playing this game anymore. I'm talking about PvP participants in a CP campaign.

There are just some things that I don't understand at all. As an example

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after 10 seconds...

Or people who somehow manage to mash 4 attacks into 1 second while we fight. I know some of you will say lag, but I find it very hard to believe that there is some random lag spike all of a sudden that lets someone win like that. Because if it was true, then how come I never ever experience this myself? How come its always someone who's killing me? It doesn't add up.

Can somebody explain how are these things even possible? Why when I wear identical setups I doesn't change anything? This is open field combat too, no LoS, no Trick, Just Face to Face Fair combat. I'm about to just give up on the game. The next best thing is, whenever I politely ask these people what builds they use they either ignore it, or respond along the lines of "Secret" or some random profanity. Only got one response in 10.

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

Does anyone here know what I mean? Like... am I the only one? What am I missing... Was my character supposed to do something or get something? Are people just exploiting or hacking? I'm not a good player by a long shot but these simple things that really aren't a question of gameplay or playstyle... These inconsistencies, these huge factual number gaps.... It just doesn't add up. And sadly it makes me hate a really good game with a lot of potential.

I don't want to start any conspiracies or anything here, just truly trying to understand what's making me want to quit the game I love. Any constructive input would be appreciated. And once again, I'm not a good player but this just feels like something else is going on behind the scenes.

Thalmor-Nordmaster · September 2018

The Pact and DC halfwits have called me illegitimate many times.And with many variants of the word

Siohwenoeht · September 2018

@Nyladreas Genuinely sorry it's been so frustrating for you. I know lag has a ton to do with the attacks landing all at once. That is always frustrating to me as well.

As far as the high sustain builds, I think it can come down to timing abilities and procs down to precise moments which is also affected by the lag.

Bout a month ago I ran across another player in cyro while we were both mounted and coming toward each other, I was able to get a light attack and ability off and he was just standing there for a few seconds not doing anything. Fired off another LA and skill and still nothing. His health bar all of a sudden dropped and he was moving, figuring it was lag I let him heal up and then we started.

Ended up being a fun fight but I think too many others either wouldn't notice the other player was lagging or would enjoy taking advantage of the situation.

My two cents anyway.

Knootewoot · September 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after...

I have the same when i play stamina medium armour build. I see others run around killing people left and right don't seem to run out of resources while dodging all attacks and also being able to cloak as much as a magblade.

I really cannot produce the same on stamina build.

Edit: But I don't send out hate tells though.

hakan · September 2018

usually the salty sorcs are the ones who say myths like that

Koolio · September 2018

Practice.

I’ve played PvP everyday for years. Even the first year and a half I played all the time and thought I was in top tier. I almost got emperor multiple times and killed 90% of the players I saw. But I was not good at all. When dueling came out my friend wanted to duel me for practice. The knowledge level he had over me (even though we played together) was incredible. I never landed any combos decent damage or was able to sustain.

I spent 500k that day trying everything to win. I won maybe 1:100. We dueled everyday. All day. Multiple characters builds everything. I would wear the cheesiest stuff to win ad still lose over and over. Then one day it clicked. I saw the openings. The mistakes. I still can’t really beat that one friend but it just happened.

I could fight someone for 10 secs and know their build to the letter. I saw their rotations being off or messed up. When to take advantage. It takes time and lots of it. I used 1000 potions the fist day. And I thought I was good.

Now it the same for almost everyone I fight. They either are on the level or their not. Even some of my friends who are 5 stars ad really good in open world don’t stand a chance. It just takes time. Eventually it will click. You’ll see the game like Neo in the Matrix.

I will suggest getting a good friend and both wearing 2 sustain sets and dueling for at least 2 hours a day. This will teach you a lot. After 2-3 weeks of that ask a few more friends to join.

Siohwenoeht · September 2018

Forgot to mention: my magplar would always run low on resources before I really practiced weaving in light attacks.

I'm not talking about animation cancelling (I'm on Xbox so it's very hard to tell if I do or don't cancel) but just getting a light attack off between your abilities does wonders for sustain especially with the right CP load out.

She hardly ever runs out of mag now so I can use cheaper pots for Stam.

And don't forget that resource cost poisons are very prevalent in pvp. You are putting yourself at a disadvantage if you don't at least have them on one bar.

Vapirko · September 2018

Koolio wrote: »

Practice.

I’ve played PvP everyday for years. Even the first year and a half I played all the time and thought I was in top tier. I almost got emperor multiple times and killed 90% of the players I saw. But I was not good at all. When dueling came out my friend wanted to duel me for practice. The knowledge level he had over me (even though we played together) was incredible. I never landed any combos decent damage or was able to sustain.

I spent 500k that day trying everything to win. I won maybe 1:100. We dueled everyday. All day. Multiple characters builds everything. I would wear the cheesiest stuff to win ad still lose over and over. Then one day it clicked. I saw the openings. The mistakes. I still can’t really beat that one friend but it just happened.

I could fight someone for 10 secs and know their build to the letter. I saw their rotations being off or messed up. When to take advantage. It takes time and lots of it. I used 1000 potions the fist day. And I thought I was good.

Now it the same for almost everyone I fight. They either are on the level or their not. Even some of my friends who are 5 stars ad really good in open world don’t stand a chance. It just takes time. Eventually it will click. You’ll see the game like Neo in the Matrix.

I will suggest getting a good friend and both wearing 2 sustain sets and dueling for at least 2 hours a day. This will teach you a lot. After 2-3 weeks of that ask a few more friends to join.

That matrix analogy is good, that’s how it happens. It’s insanely frustrating for the longest time and then something clicks. You get to this place where you know when someone simply can’t touch you and where you need to step it up. And then there are the people who are still way better and you just need to make a personal choice about whether you want to invest more time into the game. Although more and more there are abilities and sets that hit so hard that even terrible players can dish out insane damage with little effort. @Nyladreas my suggestion is take a break from open world and focus on dueling for a little. Break it downs to 1v1 and practice that way. People are more likely to chat about the fight in a duel outside of cyro. Another good thing to practice is to forget about attacking. Go into cyro and only focus on healing and mitigating damage while also mainting your resources. Then once you start to feel really comfortable start putting the pieces back together. Good players are hard to kill because they’re healing preemptively. They don’t wait for their health to drop below 50, and if it does then they have their panic buttons. Things like using CC immunity and then popping your pot to get maximum immunity time are very important. Vigor/dodgeroll lets you get a free tick or two of vigor with reduced damage. It’s a lot of little tricks like that. Also some players are so bad that their damage can be just ignored, so if you’re attacking one person with some pugs, those players might as well not even exist for how bad they are.

SenorCrouch · September 2018

lol From what I have heard about CP campaigns...I get the feeling they'd hate me. Pretty sure the number of Pop Tarts and popcorn references I tend to post in Zone as well as how many times I talk about getting a pizza delivered to whatever keep we are defending would probably drive sweaty players up a wall.

For those who fancy the Sotha Sil server, may one day our paths cross. I look forward to the laughs and fun.

Feanor · September 2018

No offense, but given your posting history I think the problem is probably on your end and not elsewhere.

That said one would have to be very naïve to believe that people aren’t exploiting in this game. Reportedly there are over 70 exploits available on a certain well known website. ESO is just a very buggy piece of not very well done code in the end.

Moonsorrow · September 2018

What happened to your previous no-effort stamsorc setup that you could just use to run at them and they would drop dead since its op?

And to your question.. well, good builds are good, most people dont talk about them in detail. Its not cheating though, those numbers happen with a good setup. But even those setups have a counter setup, that or you use similar and get the offensive first, then you usually see them run away of course rather than go down hehe. But the details about the builds.. oh wait. I quote my favourite npc: *remains silent*

Dont give up though, try different kind of stuff and fight fight fight a lot, you will get to that level if have patience and quick reflexes and situational awareness, thats all it takes if you got time to learn the dance.

Personally i can say it took me 2 YEARS to comfortably play like that and to get tells from enemies that i cheat somehow, all it took was playing all classes and variations and testing everything pretty much until things just clicked kinda. Still i play sometimes some lazy bow setups with high lethal arrows for that inner warming luls effect.

But you answered to your own question kinda, when said that you wear identical setup and cannot win them.. then its purely about needing to train more. I mean, i started to kill peeps way faster then did put skills so that bar swaps went smooth, light attacks, animation canceling started to happen without thinking about it, faster burst so that when people die they accuse of cheating.

People accuse of cheating about the weirdest things anyways, like when i used a fun build that had Swarm Mother monster set, to draw in those Snipe spammer glass cannons to melee and burst them down after they got drawn in it was too often to get a whisper like: "you use dk chain even you are nb, reported for hacking cheater!!!111". Sigh. Had 5p Fury, 5p Hulking, 2p Swarm. Snb/2h. Yeah, no sustain set, but SnB ulti

, and you can kill things fast enough to not need massive sustain, also while SnB ulti on can do heavy attacks here and there paired with some skills. Using cloak tactically when needed. Lingering health pots. Good fun. Asylum 2h Axe back bar worked really well too, when modified that setup a bit. Just an example about testing a setup, that ended up working really well. Some would say: "cannot work, no TK booo.." But with tactical Cloak usage, can live long and prosper without TK. Used at Cyro open world. At bgs TK is nice though for obvious reasons.

But to not get sidetracked totally, just have patience and you can get there, treat the time before it as a valuable learning experience, deaths are just a fast way to spawn near next action location.

Nyladreas · September 2018

Feanor wrote: »

No offense, but given your posting history I think the problem is probably on your end and not elsewhere.

That said one would have to be very naïve to believe that people aren’t exploiting in this game. Reportedly there are over 70 exploits available on a certain well known website. ESO is just a very buggy piece of not very well done code in the end.

I know man, my post history is just a result of my frustration, no need to hate here, I'm just trying to enjoy the game. And trying to figure things out, today I've learned that there is far far far more things involved in combat that what I'm used to.

And that's the problem, me not understanding what's happening because none explained it and certain things are kind of hard to figure out even tho they may seem obvious to some.

I realised that you can't jump into this game like you would into warcraft. There's far more to it than just mashing skills in a sequence to outplay your opponent.

Anyways, not to get off topic of my response to you, you should see the frustrations I experienced. Maybe it's just me but when I don't understand something, or can't explain something it drives me crazy. It drives me mad and angry. Don't be surprised.

Not to mention there are certain blocks and barriers in my life that prevent me from learning the game as any normal healthy individual would, which only adds further to my frustration and questioning things. At least I'm trying. @Feanor

Moonsorrow wrote: »

What happened to your previous no-effort stamsorc setup that you could just use to run at them and they would drop dead since its op?

And to your question.. well, good builds are good, most people dont talk about them in detail. Its not cheating though, those numbers happen with a good setup. But even those setups have a counter setup, that or you use similar and get the offensive first, then you usually see them run away of course rather than go down hehe. But the details about the builds.. oh wait. I quote my favourite npc: *remains silent*

Dont give up though, try different kind of stuff and fight fight fight a lot, you will get to that level if have patience and quick reflexes and situational awareness, thats all it takes if you got time to learn the dance.

Personally i can say it took me 2 YEARS to comfortably play like that and to get tells from enemies that i cheat somehow, all it took was playing all classes and variations and testing everything pretty much until things just clicked kinda. Still i play sometimes some lazy bow setups with high lethal arrows for that inner warming luls effect.

But you answered to your own question kinda, when said that you wear identical setup and cannot win them.. then its purely about needing to train more. I mean, i started to kill peeps way faster then did put skills so that bar swaps went smooth, light attacks, animation canceling started to happen without thinking about it, faster burst so that when people die they accuse of cheating.

People accuse of cheating about the weirdest things anyways, like when i used a fun build that had Swarm Mother monster set, to draw in those Snipe spammer glass cannons to melee and burst them down after they got drawn in it was too often to get a whisper like: "you use dk chain even you are nb, reported for hacking cheater!!!111". Sigh. Had 5p Fury, 5p Hulking, 2p Swarm. Snb/2h. Yeah, no sustain set, but SnB ulti , and you can kill things fast enough to not need massive sustain, also while SnB ulti on can do heavy attacks here and there paired with some skills. Using cloak tactically when needed. Lingering health pots. Good fun. Asylum 2h Axe back bar worked really well too, when modified that setup a bit. Just an example about testing a setup, that ended up working really well. Some would say: "cannot work, no TK booo.." But with tactical Cloak usage, can live long and prosper without TK. Used at Cyro open world. At bgs TK is nice though for obvious reasons.

But to not get sidetracked totally, just have patience and you can get there, treat the time before it as a valuable learning experience, deaths are just a fast way to spawn near next action location.

My stamsorc is gone, it was just a way to relax for a bit. I'm not looking to just switch to something else and expect different results or learn something else etc. I want my main character to be worth something and I'm facing the same frustrations all over again

Besides, that post was obviously mainly just a rant.

People always bring up the word train or practice. Nobody really ever says how to practice though and that's the thing. Nobody ever talks about certain tricks other than animation cancelling. Nobody explains how to properly fight in PVP other than pure basics of skill use and lining up combos or timing your abilities.

You don't just practice, you explore, investigate, research. If you told me to practice i could be doing this for 10 years and would never ever become good. If you told me to research combat mechanics and how things react to one another in the simplest details. That's where I'd start to learn further.

It doesn't help I'm over-frustrated with things in real life and focusing on things that currently keep my mind busy 24/7 as these things involve and affect the outcome of my entire life from now on. I need a more direct teaching approach than a vague advice.

mongoLC · September 2018

Just the ones that ignore the global cool down because its client side.

geonsocal · September 2018

I got beat...I'm not saying it's cheating, but - it's cheating...

Berenhir · September 2018

Record your fights and replay them afterwards.

Ackwalan · September 2018

There are people that cheat, that doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me, is how some people defend those that cheat.

Siohwenoeht · September 2018

@Nyladreas I think to some extent all of us use eso, or any other game for that matter, to help relieve the pressures of everyday life so you are definitely not alone there.

I Work overnights and play when I get home at 5:00am as a way to get my mind to shut off from work so I can go to sleep. That said, I typically don't run into the game mechanic issues that playing in primetime brings. In fact yesterday I logged in and thought I'd accidentally popped a speed potion while doing crafting writs since I was running around so quickly and firing off skills left and right lol.

But no, just pure lack of players on the server where I was.

Hang in there and enjoy the game for what it is and if you do run into someone using an exploit or taking advantage of health desync or your internet lag just try to remember that you play the game straight and they do not.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · September 2018

Of course, either they all die becauseI am the best or they cheat.

Wollust · September 2018

I play stamblade and I get a lot of cheating accusations but those players are always the same type. They only run in the safety of a zerg, run incredibly bad builds which don‘ t even try to balance sustain, survivability and dmg, and just in general don‘t have a clue about the games mechanics etc.

Been playing since launch and I can‘t remember one thing that looked like it wasn‘t legit. Maybe I never meet those players. Or maybe I can just explain it with my own knowledge and experience.

(Obviously the cheat engine incident was an exeption, although I never saw it on EU. Only saw the videos from the NA server, so no idea how prevalent it was on EU)

Moonsorrow · September 2018

Lazy to put your answer as a quote, but well.. its hard to not give anything but a vague answer, since there is not a one answer/build that would make you win everything, its all about situational awareness and reactions to different challenges quickly. Its about being in control, no matter what happens. Its hard to teach that, it happens in time as said, with patience. Would help of course if you had a training partner for duels who is on "that level" and is willing to give a lot of time to start teaching the tricks to it. So having a Yoda-like mentor helps, still it takes time to get to the jedi master (or a Sith Lord hehe) level hehe. Yeah, i played SWTOR too much in the past, it had fun pvp also.

Still, one good step to start with can be the mentality, that make your build rock, paper or scissors, dont try to make too "balanced" setup, or your damage is not enough to finish hp regen builds or big shield stackers as an example, accept you will have hard counter builds against you, just pick targets wisely and move constantly so that you avoid most damage (unless building Fury stacks when need, if on a setup like that). Damn its hard to give nothing but kinda vague tips, since it always depends on situations, and cannot write all thousands of variables on what to do and when.. when played enough, you just know them and act fast without having to stop and think. Sorry for vague answer, but honestly its hard to give anything else.

Thogard · September 2018

i think a lot of you guys are underestimating OP

Berenhir · September 2018

What people attribute to cheating usually is either perfectly normal game mechanics they just don't know/are ignorant of (best e.g. is reflecting) or false assumptions they have about how effective/ineffective their setup is and/or about the setup their opponents utilize. The latter is imho the biggest issue, especially people thinking being able to kill just because they stacked 45k mag or 5k WD.

In reality, it is a question of playing a build to its strength, picking the right fights, fighting with and against the right people and being able to build for your own gameplay.

I can 1v5 potatoes while eating a pizza and I will be melted 3v1 by competent and organized players. But the only cheat involved is me cheating myself into the illusion I would be able to fight a bleed blade, a spin2win stamsorc and a SnB magDK with the help of this random cp370 pug.

Turelus · September 2018

Does anyone ever question someone's legitimacy in PVP?
Every week on these forums.

Moonsorrow · September 2018

Thogard wrote: »

i think a lot of you guys are underestimating OP

So you think he is at the level he wants to be and all his opponents are cheaters? Well, dont know about NA server, but here on EU not seen any cheating or suspicious setups. Only cheating that there been has been the people going through invisible walls bug thingy.

Oh and the "roleplaying" during double AP events of course, sadly.

LadyNalcarya · September 2018

Well, there are people who take advantage of exploits. But on the other hand, I was accused in cheating more than once and I'm not even that good at pvp. Some people are too emotional I guess.
Also, builds make a really big difference. There are outright broken combinations, and if you're fighting against a very skilled player with a good build, you'll probably lose.

I would suggest recording your fights so everyone can see what actually happened.

Beardimus · September 2018

I feel the OPs sentiment. I'm fully glad I'm on console.(HDR balls up aside) as I would have serious doubt if I were on PC about macros, CE, performance rig differences etc.

I already have my doubts on Xbox. People do stuff that's next level and even as you get better you wonder how. I also know most pros I know tap into whatever is OP as hell / broken that patch fast. They on PTS and dominate when a patch lands. All fair competitive advantage I guess.

But yeah I question stuff recently. Especially as the better players seem to always be the one leaping Into keeps, thru postern walls, feeding / boosting AP etc, messing with campaigns scores etc

LadyNalcarya · September 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

I feel the OPs sentiment. I'm fully glad I'm on console.(HDR balls up aside) as I would have serious doubt if I were on PC about macros, CE, performance rig differences etc.

I already have my doubts on Xbox. People do stuff that's next level and even as you get better you wonder how. I also know most pros I know tap into whatever is OP as hell / broken that patch fast. They on PTS and dominate when a patch lands. All fair competitive advantage I guess.

But yeah I question stuff recently. Especially as the better players seem to always be the one leaping Into keeps, thru postern walls, feeding / boosting AP etc, messing with campaigns scores etc

Well, it's possible to use macros on consoles. Their use would be limited because a simple macro cannot bypass skill cooldowns etc, but as far as I know some controllers allow you to use them. There is also a way to use bots on consoles so I wouldnt be surprised if there are cheaters.

As for exploits, there's pretty much 0 risk to get banned so people take advantage of every exploit they find.

Gnozo · September 2018

I get a lot of hate wisp when i play stamnb. I build for sustain. Bone Pirate and Shacklebreaker with bloodspawn. 2 heavy, 5 medium. Triune juwelry. 15k magicka and about 1k magicka recovery. 2.8k stam rec. 5 impen, 2 well fitted.

Cp allocation so you get the tactican passive to set ppl off balance with smart heavy attacks from shadow. Cloak + Shadow to kite.

Was kiting 10 ADs in a tower after the keep turned yellow. With cloak and shadow image you can kite forever. Jumping from wall, few follow, port back to shadow image. Also swift helps, run around corner, charge heavy attack and incap the first poor soul who comes first. Repeat. Did this for 40 minutes. After they finally got me 4 hate wisps and all claimed to report me.

Never slept this good after this cause i know i am not cheating or exploiting.

Beardimus · September 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

I get a lot of hate wisp when i play stamnb. I build for sustain. Bone Pirate and Shacklebreaker with bloodspawn. 2 heavy, 5 medium. Triune juwelry. 15k magicka and about 1k magicka recovery. 2.8k stam rec. 5 impen, 2 well fitted.

Cp allocation so you get the tactican passive to set ppl off balance with smart heavy attacks from shadow. Cloak + Shadow to kite.

Was kiting 10 ADs in a tower after the keep turned yellow. With cloak and shadow image you can kite forever. Jumping from wall, few follow, port back to shadow image. Also swift helps, run around corner, charge heavy attack and incap the first poor soul who comes first. Repeat. Did this for 40 minutes. After they finally got me 4 hate wisps and all claimed to report me.

Never slept this good after this cause i know i am not cheating or exploiting.

#NerfBlade

Hehe joke, but its a common response if a sorc said this.

Feanor · September 2018

@Nyladreas

No hate involved. The game can be very frustrating at times.

Kel · September 2018

Feanor wrote: »

No offense, but given your posting history I think the problem is probably on your end and not elsewhere.

That said one would have to be very naïve to believe that people aren’t exploiting in this game. Reportedly there are over 70 exploits available on a certain well known website. ESO is just a very buggy piece of not very well done code in the end.

I once was in a group of about 40 players going for a blue scroll. (Was playing EP)
There was a group of 3...3(!) nightblades that dodge rolled constantly, was taking anywhere from 120 to 230 damage from anyone in the group no matter the build, somehow had shuffle up constantly, and was somehow able to cloak constantly in the middle of huge AoE. All in the open with no line of sight whatsoever. I, and at least 4 others in this group were using resource drain poisons as well, yet these 3 players never ran out of resources, yet they were constantly using abilities as well as using comobs at will. What's weird is we were attacked by these 3 players, we didn't chase them or "zerg them down". And they wiped all 40 of us.

Always amazed people say there's no cheating in this game. It gets thrown around a little too freely and isn't always the case, true. But if you strongly deny cheating happens in this game, you are naive or use cheats.

I took video of that incident and reported it. Haven't seen those players since. Just saying.