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Feedback: Can we buff Sorcs for a change?
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Could you in short tell what's wrong with Sorc? Is it really because they took 28m petrify from you? I know pve sustain is bad but man do you really think there aren't other classes that need zos attention first?
Honestly, I've listed it countless times. In short:
-Predicable burst, and basically a one-trick pony in that the Sorc combo is always the same which makes it even more predictable.
-Shields take full unmitigated damage. Some may say this is countered by lack of crits but that's not very relevant since no one runs crit builds. Damage gets higher and higher but shields stay the same.
-Lack of reliable CC. The range of rune cage is also not an argument with gap closers being so prevalent in the meta. Range doesn't matter in the slightest. I'd honestly prefer Petrify over Rune Cage (also Petrify is a double CC...)
-Streak < Gap Closers. Gap Closers make Streak basically irrelevant
-Confirmed lowest Magicka DPS in PvE by FeaR.
-Some of the worst sustain next to Stamplars
-Most importantly, the playstyle itself is being destroyed. Every single playstyle-defining thing Sorcs have had such as Frags stun and Streak has been heavy-handedly nerfed. Many people feel the class simply isn't fun anymore.
I have a longer laundry list but these are my biggest points
But do you use dizzy though?
You have a double dipping undodagable execute. If you wanted to you could have three. You have predicable burst but you got burst that is virtually undodagable (purge blah blah yeah I know). You have cc options(rune, mines, atro, streak stupid pet negate) you have mobility(lightning form streak) and you can artificially almost triple your health with shields. You can equip damage oriented traits on your armor because of that. You have range and the ability to do extreme burst. Like dang zos knew Sorc had so many decent skills they gave you a third bar.
Mag wardens?
DK?
Magplars?
You are telling me you have less CC's than magplars and mag wardens? Less mobility than dks or magplars? More predicable burst than wardens or Stam dks? Like man they just made your cc dodgable. That is all.
Gap closers have been on a melee toons bar further back than the console drop. Swift is really the only issue I would concede issues
The execute is dodgeable, and the passive rarely procs. Curse is undodgeable that's the only part of the burst that is...and that alone isn't going to do much.
There's too much more wrong with this post to even be addressed, if I'm being quite honest
Perceive what you want. Wrong about the first sentence excuse me. Could you answer my questions though? Do you have less than other classes? Or are you just frustrated that it got a little harder to kill some one? This isn't call of duty though zos is trying. All I said that you had option are they good? Meh but some classes have nothing in those categories
Why do other classes being trash excuse other classes being trash?
Why is this mentality okay?
Did you just admit the other classes are trash? And then ask why Sorc should be trash too?
Why is that mentality okay for you to basically be like: nyah Nyah who cares if you all are trash, I’m royalty. Sorc only cares that they are on top, who gives a snip what the rest of the playing field is like.
So where’s your thread on buffing warden? Or Templar?
I care about Sorc. Therefore I ask to buff Sorc.
If you care about Templar and Warden, then make a thread about Templar and Warden.
Just because other classes are trash doesnt mean Sorc should be trash, and other people should make threads about them too.
But then again, that would require effort on your partValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake2 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
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Maaan, you should really stop posting and save some dignity lol...DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »
With gap closers and swift jewelry Streak is pretty bad. At least with no stacking cost you won't be out of MP whenever you decide to use it.
streak can easily outrange any gap closer in 2 casts back to back. if it didnt increase cost on cast youd never kill a sorc also why would anyone sacrifice bloodthirsty or anything else that increases damage for speed that just doesnt seem smart in a mode where burst is god in the winning the day.
Within 2 casts you can cast 1 gap closer lol...
And Swift is much better than Bloodthirsty, considering no one really uses Bloodthirsty in PvP but many people use Swift
im a stamblade in pvp and in between group lag and cyrodil being a potato right now for some reason on pc. a sorc can easily streak out of range of a gap closer before you can get them. thus why back in the day you always saw them streak before the nerf it was an instant save your skin thats why they nerfed it in the first place.3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While other class buffs remain for months or years, sorc buffs have the shortest life span
The Mayfly of buffs3 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »While other class buffs remain for months or years, sorc buffs have the shortest life span
The Mayfly of buffs
More like a locusts... spending 17 years to come to fruition just to be eaten by ants.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.3 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »
Maaan, you should really stop posting and save some dignity lol...DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »
With gap closers and swift jewelry Streak is pretty bad. At least with no stacking cost you won't be out of MP whenever you decide to use it.
streak can easily outrange any gap closer in 2 casts back to back. if it didnt increase cost on cast youd never kill a sorc also why would anyone sacrifice bloodthirsty or anything else that increases damage for speed that just doesnt seem smart in a mode where burst is god in the winning the day.
Within 2 casts you can cast 1 gap closer lol...
And Swift is much better than Bloodthirsty, considering no one really uses Bloodthirsty in PvP but many people use Swift
im a stamblade in pvp and in between group lag and cyrodil being a potato right now for some reason on pc. a sorc can easily streak out of range of a gap closer before you can get them. thus why back in the day you always saw them streak before the nerf it was an instant save your skin thats why they nerfed it in the first place.
Except with lag Streak also becomes unreliable and terribly delayed. The lag doesn't really countValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »
Maaan, you should really stop posting and save some dignity lol...DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »
With gap closers and swift jewelry Streak is pretty bad. At least with no stacking cost you won't be out of MP whenever you decide to use it.
streak can easily outrange any gap closer in 2 casts back to back. if it didnt increase cost on cast youd never kill a sorc also why would anyone sacrifice bloodthirsty or anything else that increases damage for speed that just doesnt seem smart in a mode where burst is god in the winning the day.
Within 2 casts you can cast 1 gap closer lol...
And Swift is much better than Bloodthirsty, considering no one really uses Bloodthirsty in PvP but many people use Swift
im a stamblade in pvp and in between group lag and cyrodil being a potato right now for some reason on pc. a sorc can easily streak out of range of a gap closer before you can get them. thus why back in the day you always saw them streak before the nerf it was an instant save your skin thats why they nerfed it in the first place.
Except with lag Streak also becomes unreliable and terribly delayed. The lag doesn't really count
yet its still the number one escape tool for sorcs about like nightblades is cloak? if its so unrealiable why do people still default to it as the main escape tool? its just how would reverting a nerf(that was actually needed) would make it any less reliable? theres only one thing sorc needs buffed a bit and thats their sustain other than that there is really nothing else that needs buffed. only change i can say does severely need rolled back is the change to frags that change even to me made no sense.1 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭Zos doesn't know how to make every class playable. They just nerf every class, then do an unnecessary buff to one class. It's baffling.1
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supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭I think they need a stronger execute and better damage shields, maybe even a stupidly strong self heal based on damage.. Could even give them a pet that makes even the most difficult solo content a breeze... Oh wait...,4 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think they need a stronger execute and better damage shields, maybe even a stupidly strong self heal based on damage.. Could even give them a pet that makes even the most difficult solo content a breeze... Oh wait...,
I really like how you tried to do a thing and then crashed and burned when half of what you said is stuff they actually needDuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »
Maaan, you should really stop posting and save some dignity lol...DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »
With gap closers and swift jewelry Streak is pretty bad. At least with no stacking cost you won't be out of MP whenever you decide to use it.
streak can easily outrange any gap closer in 2 casts back to back. if it didnt increase cost on cast youd never kill a sorc also why would anyone sacrifice bloodthirsty or anything else that increases damage for speed that just doesnt seem smart in a mode where burst is god in the winning the day.
Within 2 casts you can cast 1 gap closer lol...
And Swift is much better than Bloodthirsty, considering no one really uses Bloodthirsty in PvP but many people use Swift
im a stamblade in pvp and in between group lag and cyrodil being a potato right now for some reason on pc. a sorc can easily streak out of range of a gap closer before you can get them. thus why back in the day you always saw them streak before the nerf it was an instant save your skin thats why they nerfed it in the first place.
Except with lag Streak also becomes unreliable and terribly delayed. The lag doesn't really count
yet its still the number one escape tool for sorcs about like nightblades is cloak? if its so unrealiable why do people still default to it as the main escape tool? its just how would reverting a nerf(that was actually needed) would make it any less reliable? theres only one thing sorc needs buffed a bit and thats their sustain other than that there is really nothing else that needs buffed. only change i can say does severely need rolled back is the change to frags that change even to me made no sense.
People default to it as the main escape tool because that's pretty much all we've got. It's like asking why a Nightblade uses cloak. Because that's what they've got.
The nerf wasn't really all that needed (people just didn't wanna slot gap closers). Now that both gap closers and swift are relevant in the meta then the nerf to Bolt Escape is redundant.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you change the title to wardens it would make a lot more sense..
I don't see how. It would make the same amount of sense if anythingValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There's only 2 buffs I would be okay with:
1) Have Streak break roots.
2) Give Power Surge minor intellect.
Magsorcs do not need any more damage nor survivability.1 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭They wouldn't minds having a rune cage back.
It was not overperforming. I think a minority felt it was actually overperforming. The rest were merely aiming to get it nerfed0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's only 2 buffs I would be okay with:
1) Have Streak break roots.
2) Give Power Surge minor intellect.
Magsorcs do not need any more damage nor survivability.
You say this as it has been confirmed that mag Sorcs are the lowest PvE DPS...Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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You say this as if the difference is that significant. We're talking about a 3k difference between the best and the worst DPS class. Magsorcs also offer a great deal of utility with the ease of synergizing liquid lightening, and the survival capabilities with having two shields at their disposal.2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
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You say this as if the difference is that significant. We're talking about a 3k difference between the best and the worst DPS class. Magsorcs also offer a great deal of utility with the ease of synergizing liquid lightening, and the survival capabilities with having two shields at their disposal.
Liquid Lightning can be provided by a Sorc healer. A Sorc taking up a Nightblade DPS spot is now seen as so bad that they shove them on healers just to keep the LL synergy while not having them take up any real space.
And no one uses two shields in PvE. They use at most one. If you use two shields then you honestly probably don't deserve to have an opinion on PvE content.
Yeah, over-performing because of an animation bug that made it unbreakable. Instead of fixing that though they just nerfed it so that no one cares anymore.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Could you in short tell what's wrong with Sorc? Is it really because they took 28m petrify from you? I know pve sustain is bad but man do you really think there aren't other classes that need zos attention first?
A stamplar was doing his 1vX thing extremely skillfully, he had an insane speed and burst, when he could not handle the numbers anymore he kited away at extreme speed...well I chased after him on my mag-sorc...as it is the most mobile class isn't it? I reached him and only because he decided so...and this right here is The mag-sorc's Problem NR1.
Well I reached him and that what matters..who cares mobility balance in this game?
And 4 seconds later I'm dead..well an L2P issue here really, shield up before engage....noted and moved on...not many resources left after so many streaks used...but there were some for shielding...so not an excuse...an L2P issue, totally agree.
Same templar, 5 minutes later..a legit 1v1 fight, my resources are at max, I curse him, and fully shield stack...and keep stacking...and keep stacking..as the burst was insane and not ending...6 seconds later i'm dead and that was not even a resource problem...he just burst through my shields...and that's The mag-sorc's Problem NR2.
Here are more details about it if anyone interested:
I have a very specific build designed to absorb lots of damage...while my burst is not so great, that's the trade.
I don't expect to win duels by any-mean...but i expect at least to survive in this build...at least longer than 6 seconds...
The templar did not use any oblivion damage shortcuts, it was a legit build with all physical damage, with very high burst capability and very very mobile, my streak cannot keep up with such speeds.....he kites away when outnumbered, and is back on you when single, he uses no gap closer either, its just the speed .... the burst and speed.
It is not balanced IMO, these extreme speeds stamina builds can reach is way overboard... even the un-nerfed streak won't keep up with it....maybe just if racing in a straight line.
I truly believe that a buff to mag sorc won't help sorcs - all mechanics needs to be looked at instead.
My fully buffed hardened ward size in No-CP PVP campaign is - 10k (10511 to be precise) and if a solo player can burn stacks of that with easy then there is definitely something wrong here.
Well in this case you must be rly rly rly bad sorc. i play stamplar from time when game was realeased, and well here is 0 clas skill which can boost stamplar speed. You have only generic options as swift trait, manevers, and skill from psijic (compare to sorc which have one skill with aoe dmg, expedition buff, major ward and major resolve) or some spedd boost sets. But if you use speed sets you lost most of burst, and stamlar have rly 1 or 2 ways how to burst some1.Adraria Argentum Draco - imperial Stamplar
Bevdyen Tus Ntxhuav - Orc Stamplar
Celestun Ira Dei- Imperial Tankplar
Halldis Rautt Höfuð- Nord Tankplar
Misawa Yoshike - Breton Healplar
Lae'ozhael - Dunmer Magplar1 -
e1team✭✭✭I don't pvp, but in pve I have absolutely nothing to complain about. Yesterday in vet volenfell at final 3 bosses I got tired of healing my companions who kept being wiped and decided to join in the fun. Switched to overload with some buffs and debuffs and crunched some solid 20-25k. And I am definitely not meta and not min maxer. Just casual. So I guess most of the complaints come from pvp. Just sayin'...0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Play some BGs not as sorc... and then we can talk....Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on September 5, 2018 11:14AM1 -
Grandesdar✭✭✭If you change the title to wardens it would make a lot more sense..
^This. There's a reason many still play sorc after they changed their needlessly op setup. If they really needed buffs, we wouldn't see so many sorcs around.
Also someone mentioned damage mitigation on shields. It exists, just take a look at the damage mitigation thread on this forum you'll see. I've setup a tank using the advantage of damage shields, but not entirely shields ofc, it wouldn't make sense if a magsorc can tank as much as an average tank. But they mitigate damage before they hit the shield where they really have to, which is the champion system. So if you want better damage shields, use your precious CPs on defensive stuff instead of offensive. Simple as that.Edited by Grandesdar on September 5, 2018 11:42AMMain: The Charismatic StamDK DD
Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
CP: 680
EU PSN: Style35131 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Play some BGs not as sorc... and then we can talk....
***play some high mmr bgs and we'll talk.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Play some BGs not as sorc... and then we can talk....
***play some high mmr bgs and we'll talk.
Honestly no matter what class you're playing, when your MMR is high enough no one does well against heavy armored pre-mades that specialize in group healing, AoEs, and defiles. At that point in time it's best to return to Cyrodiil.0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Valrien So, is it impossible for someone to complete a veteran trial because they play a Sorcerer? Im not talkimg about vet trial invite policies. Is it actually possible for someone playing the Sorc class to complete all content so far?
If you're asking about that, it pretty much says it all. Every class/combo can join a raid and complete it. It's just that currently the sorc has one extra synergi. So in any score running team will drop the sorc for another NB, and use the sorc as a healer. Why? because LOW dps. Why low dps? because NO sustain!
So, all classes can raid. that aint the problem. Current meta magplars, magwardens, magDKs and magNBs out DPS the sorc.
and yes, that is a issue.
Tho the anti-sorc brigade has their panties in a twist for some reason and say that other classes are worse off then sorc, even tho they are one of the weakest. It's just lol tbh.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.2 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Play some BGs not as sorc... and then we can talk....
***play some high mmr bgs and we'll talk.
Honestly no matter what class you're playing, when your MMR is high enough no one does well against heavy armored pre-mades that specialize in group healing, AoEs, and defiles. At that point in time it's best to return to Cyrodiil.
But wait that goes against the context that sorcs are op.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0
no. 
