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Is it just me or is the "undaunted" skill line incredibly annoying?
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kingslayer513 wrote: »It does seem like there's room to add some additional sources of undaunted experience. These other sources would fit with the theme, I think:- Gain 5 undaunted XP for each cleared delve (10 for group delves in Craglorn and delves in Cyrodiil with 2+ bosses)
- Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared public dungeon
- Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared world boss
- Gain 5 undaunted XP for each world boss kill
- Gain 1 undaunted XP for each delve boss kill (2 for group delves in Craglorn)
(values are suggested; not sure what would be the best allotment)
Absolutely agree. At the very least, public dungeons and world bosses need to count.
It would give incentive to doing world bosses. I love rolling world bosses, but sometimes one extra person would be nice (looking at you, deceptively innocent looking guar).6 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance wat grind for pvers.
not. even. remotely. I can repair keep walls for a few hours and level my pvp skill lines enough to unlock the skills I actualy need. it doesn't require an organized group, I can just join whatever pug is currently running and be just as successful. meanwhile doing that speedrun_hardmode_completion achievements requires specific 3 other people who are on the same page as you are, on the same schedule as you are and all 4 of you need to have enough of an ability/knowledge to actualy be able to DO those achievement runs.
I used to grumble about being forced into pvp just to get couple of skills that are good in pve. no more. even as a pve player - pvp skill lines are far FAR easier and faster to level to the point where you have the skills needed, vs leveling undaunted.
undaunted is the singe WORST skill line in this game to level for vast majority of players.
IMO delves and public dungeons completion should award undaunted xp. after all if doing a delve is good enough for an undaunted daily and since those dungeon damage/healing abilities can also be acquired in delves.. it makes no sense that delves themselves do not award undaunted xp
1. Mage Guild is the worst
2. I'm almost positive they do?
1. mage guild is easy enough. run around for a few hours gathering lorebooks. on pc you have an addon, on console you can use lorebook maps for locations. if you don't have a tablet, or a smartphone with internet connection, or a laptop or a printer to get them printed out - go to the library and print them out there.
2. they do not, only way to get undaunted xp via delves is if you are either doing Bogrul's daily and you get undaunted for THAT and for healing/damage/blocking dungeon achievements. delve/public dungeon clear achievements give exactly ZERO undaunted xp.
everything requires time investment. that's fine. problem with undaunted is that it only comes from very specific sources and if you are not a part of pve dungeon group that plays together regularly enough - there are VERY few way, VERY slow ways to do it solo.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Now you know how the PvE people feel about having to PvP for Caltrops and Vigor!It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it...
...
Yeah, it may be annoying, but the scales are balanced. You will either do the dungeon crawling to get there, or you will decide
this or that alt isn't worth the effort. Just like every PvE player has to make their choice about the PvP skills.
And really, not like you don't get other rewards for doing dungeons too, right? Also, I do hear that guilds often do dungeon runs... that is true, is it not? So there. Not that hard after all, yes.
You can get caltrop vigor and warhorn just fixing doors and following a Zerg.
For undaunted it’s a much much longer grind. Doing much harder content. You only earn if for achievements so you can only do the easy stuff once to help level it. To do it in any sort of timely manor you need to be clearing heroics and hardmodes.4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Linaleah That's largely because you understand how Cyrodiil and AP gain works. You look at the map and go "oh, this is happening, i'll go over there. oh, that's so and so, i'll follow them."
I remember reading something like that ages ago and going to Cyrodiil and trying to repair keep walls for AP "for a few hours" to get caltrops. Yeah naaaah. That's not how it actually works.
These days when I need caltrops / vigor I just Q for random BGs and ruin my teammates day by being a scrub PvE'er. Sorry guys, I'm dead weight, but it's 8k AP for a loss. that's a lot of keep walls.
On a side note I feel the opposite about undaunted. Grab a few friends from guild chat and speed run, no death, hm a few dungeons, get the dungeon quest skill points as a bonus and move on. "It's so easy, why do people complain about this?"
not everyone can do vet dungeons, let alone hardmodes. not every can just "grab a few friends tp spam some dungeons"
moreover, i still barely understand how cyrodil works. you know what I did? I asked for a group in chat, got an invite and tagged along, trying to participate to the best of my ability, which isn't much at all.
and now with battlegrounds, it seems even easier, since you level whether win or lose.
heck its slow, but worst case scenario, you can do pve daily quests in cyrodil to get some ap.
I honestly genuinely used to think that getting caltrops and vigor and warhorn was such a bother for a pve player. compared to undaunted for most people? its minor.
few posts above, suggestion to add more sources for undaunted leveling? yes. we really could use that. and its not like it will take away from "I'm going to grab my 3 other leet friends and slam my way through some hardmodes in couple of hours" it will just give people WHO CANNOT DO THAT, better options for undaunted leveling aside from Bogrul's daily and a pledge here and there.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe it's not that annoying, when you start out visiting every public dungeon first. There is a lot you can gain from it to advance the skill line, aswell as getting skill points for every group event there.
public dungeons do not level undaunted. however - they SHOULD.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
Jinchuu✭✭✭✭@Linaleah That's largely because you understand how Cyrodiil and AP gain works. You look at the map and go "oh, this is happening, i'll go over there. oh, that's so and so, i'll follow them."
I remember reading something like that ages ago and going to Cyrodiil and trying to repair keep walls for AP "for a few hours" to get caltrops. Yeah naaaah. That's not how it actually works.
These days when I need caltrops / vigor I just Q for random BGs and ruin my teammates day by being a scrub PvE'er. Sorry guys, I'm dead weight, but it's 8k AP for a loss. that's a lot of keep walls.
On a side note I feel the opposite about undaunted. Grab a few friends from guild chat and speed run, no death, hm a few dungeons, get the dungeon quest skill points as a bonus and move on. "It's so easy, why do people complain about this?"
This is the type of guy who would cry a river if some random joined his dungeon group with al itention of being an achor yet has no qualms about doing it in pvp.Unless you are willing to be a mindless sycophant and/or coddle others due to their insecurities prepare to be harrased by the Orwellian enforcers on these forums. You should also try to refrain from using any words more complex than those used by a small child due to the fact that said enforcers have made it clear that their vocabulary pool is aenemic.4 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about it's the 2%, or possibly 6% depending on your ligh/heavy/medium armor usage, buff to all of your stats.
6% is not a small number and in late game PVP it absolutely makes a difference.
So it's quite tedious that every single time I level up a PVP character I also have to find a way to PVE with him, with PVP gear... Not exactly a thrilling experience.
It makes absolutely no sense to hide a buff like this behind a skill line that is so grindy and only PVE oriented.
Either make undaunted easier to level or remove the buff all together.
As a full time PVPer it's extremely easy to get to rank 10 it took me less that 20 hours to get it on my Stam NB and under 15 hours to get it on my DK just do speed runs, no death, and other achievements that give you max experience.2 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would be nice if they added an additonal option for leveling it like maybe world boss completion, public dungeons and other stuff mentioned above which would also benefit those that have a hard time finding help for them in less populated zones.
It’s not some PvE vs PvP player argument that some replying seem to want to make it into. I primarily PvP, but I also like overland PvE content that can be done solo or in more of a pick up manner even in the wee hours when I often play. Dungeons require others to be on and fill certain roles which is not always available.
The issue for caltrops and vigor is also a legit concern for people that abhor PvP and can be addressed too. This thread is not about that though...
Edited by Enkil on August 30, 2018 12:51AM0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree make all this grind crap account wide.
Skyshards/Make Guild/fighter guild/Undaunted/PvP/Psjiic2 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's annoying to PvErs as well. Pugs are gross, and guild people sometimes have actual lives outside the game.@Linaleah <snip>
I remember reading something like that ages ago and going to Cyrodiil and trying to repair keep walls for AP "for a few hours" to get caltrops. Yeah naaaah. That's not how it actually works.<snip>
That was actually exactly how I got my caltrops. It took me 6 hours of repairing walls over the course of three days. I did not have to fight one single player in that time, I managed to sneak out of the one that got attacked while I was repairing after I learned the hard way that I couldn't use the transitus during an attack. Now I know that when I need that skill for another toon I'll just load up on stealth buffs. Only real downside to doing it this way is that the keep repair kits are bloody expensive!
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BlackLabel✭✭✭All these pve people complaining like it takes ages to get caltrops and vigor. Just do like 10-15 bgs and you will get them easy. Undaunted 9 takes a lot longer and requires more effort by far.0
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frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭madchuska83 wrote: »Why do I have to go into PvP to get Caltrops, Purge, Vigor, and Warhorn? These aren't skills only useful in a PvP setting. They are required for end-game PvE content.
Ah well; At least I can relish the thought that you PvPers have to suffer through the same thing for two little passives.
Takes like 30 minutes to get caltrops and vigor if you know what you’re doing. Takes days if not weeks to get undaunted to 9... terrible comparison.2 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Right, it's fast under PVE conditions, but what I'm saying is if my character is using 2h/bow, and has sustain sets on which aren't that great in PVE, he's not really going to be able to do most of that content.
Or at the very least he's going to struggle to do so.
Yes, I can manage to do the non-dlc pledges in vet mode if the group is decent enough, but it's still a lengthy process involving time wasted in PVE with a character that was never meant to do any PVE in the first place.
Just make a PvE build. I honestly never understand why people don't level for both. It's not difficult while grinding to slot one of each class skill line, and one of each weapon line that you intend to use.
Yeah sure it's a PvP character. But pretty much every weapon is used in PvP in some way or another so why not try to use everything so you're not SOL when you need to use those skills?
I currently leveling this up for the passives and my magdk is tanky with enough damage NOT to have to level this up but the time spent not pvping makes it a chore. Do the daily pledges and Bagrol’s delves. Boring.
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Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭After the 3rd or 4th character leveling any skill line is incredibly tedious. At least we don't have to keep earning CP points per character. If they could spread that logic out a bit to other facets of the game, I would gladly welcome it.0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please stop saying you have to grind for vigor and caltrops. It sounds stupid when you can get both in less than an hour for playing bgs, while doing the bare minimum. It’s nonsensical to even compare the two.
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Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its annoying but I got there, I joined a bunch of guilds and that made it really easy as there were others also grinding it.
I played through normals and even easy vets in my PVP gear (clever alchemist + hundings rage lol) although with PVE skills (endless hail).
Also most PVP characters are significantly tankier than PVE characters so you'll probably be able to slot a taunt and some defense abilities and run normals as a tank and people always need a tank.0 -
LadyLethalla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't forget there's the This One's on Me quest, which gives 30 Undaunted points. Okay, it's a pain to go to all 16 or 17 locations but each one only takes at worst a couple of minutes. Don't have the relevant wayshrines unlocked and don't belong to a guild/have friends to port to? All the overland zones are reachable via either boatswains or carts - check in each city. Or ask in zone chat for someone to port you.
Edit: This One's on Me quest gives 30 Undaunted reputation and 50 achievement points.Edited by LadyLethalla on August 30, 2018 4:10AMx-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER3 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance wat grind for pvers.
not. even. remotely. I can repair keep walls for a few hours and level my pvp skill lines enough to unlock the skills I actualy need. it doesn't require an organized group, I can just join whatever pug is currently running and be just as successful. meanwhile doing that speedrun_hardmode_completion achievements requires specific 3 other people who are on the same page as you are, on the same schedule as you are and all 4 of you need to have enough of an ability/knowledge to actualy be able to DO those achievement runs.
I used to grumble about being forced into pvp just to get couple of skills that are good in pve. no more. even as a pve player - pvp skill lines are far FAR easier and faster to level to the point where you have the skills needed, vs leveling undaunted.
undaunted is the singe WORST skill line in this game to level for vast majority of players.
IMO delves and public dungeons completion should award undaunted xp. after all if doing a delve is good enough for an undaunted daily and since those dungeon damage/healing abilities can also be acquired in delves.. it makes no sense that delves themselves do not award undaunted xp
1. Mage Guild is the worst
2. I'm almost positive they do?
1. mage guild is easy enough. run around for a few hours gathering lorebooks. on pc you have an addon, on console you can use lorebook maps for locations. if you don't have a tablet, or a smartphone with internet connection, or a laptop or a printer to get them printed out - go to the library and print them out there.
2. they do not, only way to get undaunted xp via delves is if you are either doing Bogrul's daily and you get undaunted for THAT and for healing/damage/blocking dungeon achievements. delve/public dungeon clear achievements give exactly ZERO undaunted xp.
everything requires time investment. that's fine. problem with undaunted is that it only comes from very specific sources and if you are not a part of pve dungeon group that plays together regularly enough - there are VERY few way, VERY slow ways to do it solo.
Undaunted is "easy" too. Ease is not the measure here. Tedium is.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All my characters feel like they need maxed Undaunted because the passive bonus to stats is so large with my gear setups typically being 5/1/1, especially now that jewelrycrafting has made crafted sets more flexible
only about 5 out of 15 of my characters have Undaunted maxed because it takes so long and is so blugh to level
it is prolly really easy for someone in PvE guilds and stuff to get people together and run dungeons to level the skill line
similar to how it is easier to leech my way to Caltrops on a character running with a PvP guild
but relying on the dungeon finder and the daily Pledge limit has been a headache
my personal preferred option has been to respecc to a tank build each time a character is leveling the line
then spend a few days running daily pledges or queuing for various dungeons
but have a bunch of characters that do not run in Cyrodiil much due to stat discrepancy of not yet having this passive
so basically
recognize Undaunted prolly easy for active and social players
but pugging my way there over and over drives me nuts
even with Tank role being the most fun/interesting build for me to do the content on
x-x
ZOS needs to make each of daily pledges worth 5-10 times the Undaunted exp they are worth now
lemme get the passives in an evening or two of casual play pls
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Is there a good list or resource that actually says how many Undaunted points you get for which accomplishments?0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance wat grind for pvers.
not. even. remotely. I can repair keep walls for a few hours and level my pvp skill lines enough to unlock the skills I actualy need. it doesn't require an organized group, I can just join whatever pug is currently running and be just as successful. meanwhile doing that speedrun_hardmode_completion achievements requires specific 3 other people who are on the same page as you are, on the same schedule as you are and all 4 of you need to have enough of an ability/knowledge to actualy be able to DO those achievement runs.
I used to grumble about being forced into pvp just to get couple of skills that are good in pve. no more. even as a pve player - pvp skill lines are far FAR easier and faster to level to the point where you have the skills needed, vs leveling undaunted.
undaunted is the singe WORST skill line in this game to level for vast majority of players.
IMO delves and public dungeons completion should award undaunted xp. after all if doing a delve is good enough for an undaunted daily and since those dungeon damage/healing abilities can also be acquired in delves.. it makes no sense that delves themselves do not award undaunted xp
1. Mage Guild is the worst
2. I'm almost positive they do?
1. mage guild is easy enough. run around for a few hours gathering lorebooks. on pc you have an addon, on console you can use lorebook maps for locations. if you don't have a tablet, or a smartphone with internet connection, or a laptop or a printer to get them printed out - go to the library and print them out there.
2. they do not, only way to get undaunted xp via delves is if you are either doing Bogrul's daily and you get undaunted for THAT and for healing/damage/blocking dungeon achievements. delve/public dungeon clear achievements give exactly ZERO undaunted xp.
everything requires time investment. that's fine. problem with undaunted is that it only comes from very specific sources and if you are not a part of pve dungeon group that plays together regularly enough - there are VERY few way, VERY slow ways to do it solo.
Undaunted is "easy" too. Ease is not the measure here. Tedium is.
fair enough. i still find undaunted to be far FAR more tedious. because most of us do NOT have a group at a ready to sprint through some hardmode/no death/whatever dungeon achievements. most of us have to do it the long tedious way. at least I can get mage guild done without having to depend on 3 other people's schedules or doing tedious delve quests that are time gated and whenever I have a moment here and there.
irnonicaly.. if delve/public dungeon/world boss achievements start counting towards undaunted? it will actualy be borught UP to a less tedious level of mage guild for most people.Edited by Linaleah on August 30, 2018 3:56AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
LadyLethalla✭✭✭✭✭
✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Is there a good list or resource that actually says how many Undaunted points you get for which accomplishments?
@FrancisCrawford http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Undaunted
Section titled Reputation lists the points reward.x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LadyLethalla wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Is there a good list or resource that actually says how many Undaunted points you get for which accomplishments?
@FrancisCrawford http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Undaunted
Section titled Reputation lists the points reward.
Thanks!
But since those pages have some apparent inaccuracies, I'd like to re-ask for clarity:
Is it the case that all single-dungeon achievements give 10 points of undaunted rep each? If not, what are the exceptions?
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Skinzz✭✭✭✭✭As a pvper I dont mind grinding for undaunted. I rarely do dungeons anyway since I have most sets already. Have 12 characters with undaunted 9 lol.Anybody got a group? LFG, anybody? Hello?0 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about it's the 2%, or possibly 6% depending on your ligh/heavy/medium armor usage, buff to all of your stats.
6% is not a small number and in late game PVP it absolutely makes a difference.
So it's quite tedious that every single time I level up a PVP character I also have to find a way to PVE with him, with PVP gear... Not exactly a thrilling experience.
It makes absolutely no sense to hide a buff like this behind a skill line that is so grindy and only PVE oriented.
Either make undaunted easier to level or remove the buff all together.
I’ll happily trade you my Undaunted mettle passives if I don’t have to grind PVP for Caltrops or VIgor :-P
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This discussion has been closed.