Class Reps and their discords

Facefister · August 2018

Potenza wrote: »

This class representative idea is not going to work properly. Its just bad. Essentially the class rep is put into certain level of "power" right? And who decided who these class reps are?[...]

All that "class rep" is a delusion. They didn't care about their inputs while balancing stuff. ZoS is making those who hunger for fame work for free.

Scarpion · August 2018

Just to clarify, I believe in the class rep program. I just do not believe in certain reps. They are abusing the opportunity the community gave them by voting for them. This is evidenced in the screenshots I have gave to the correct parties.

Gilvoth · August 2018

Scarpion wrote: »

Just to clarify, I believe in the class rep program. I just do not believe in certain reps. They are abusing the opportunity the community gave them by voting for them. This is evidenced in the screenshots I have gave to the correct parties.

i dont think that is good enough. im sorry, but the program needs to be removed, in my opinion.

TheInfernalRage · August 2018

Well, they didn't call it DISCORD for nothing.

Ohtimbar · August 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Potenza wrote: »

This class representative idea is not going to work properly. Its just bad. Essentially the class rep is put into certain level of "power" right? And who decided who these class reps are?[...]

ZoS is making those who hunger for fame work for free.

QFT. That's been the Zenimax strategy for a long time now. They love free labor, just ask BGS.

Inarre · August 2018

Honestly, while I think it's great that reps have gone the extra mile to provide the community a place to gather and discuss, I think it should be addressed by zos.

There was a google submission form available here that cleanly and simply allowed the community to submit their feedback that negated any way responders could be flamed for their opinions, along with discussion threads posted here on official forums that were provided free and unbiased moderation by zos.

Once reps move discussions to unlimited, un-moderated (or under-moderated) spaces like discord, it's clear to me how chaos would ensue. And i feel badly because obviously moderating something like that will take an obscene amount of work.

I don't think we should shut down the class rep system. It was developed for a reason, whatever you believe that reason to be, even if you think it's because of free labour. But I think in light of recent occurrences on unregulated discussions, zos should request that discussions regarding the topic remain in official forums to minimize damage to the community and the program.

idk · August 2018

Maryal wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

If you feel someone representing ZOS has been acting in a way which they shouldn't you're best sending a PM to Gina/Jessica/Kai on the forums informing them about it.

Whilst those channels are not ZOS' grounds to police if players they've chosen as representatives are acting in a bad way or limiting their availability to the community for unwarranted reasons it's something I am sure ZOS would like to know about.

Personally I don't know why we didn't get get one "official" discord with all the reps in and separate channels for discussions on each area. It would have been easier for ZOS to keep an eye on.

I think ZOS should have created an official discord with the reps and separate channels for discussions in each area as you suggested. When these types of 'discussions' go one behind closed doors (so to speak), well .... it's an invitation for trouble.

That would mean one more thing for Zos t moderate.

This way the reps can moderate their own discord and if anyone has a real isssue with the reps behavior then they can report it to Zos. It’s simple and straightforward.

Beardimus · August 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

just like in highschool, those days were Horrible for 85% of the entire school.
why do we the class have to be forced to follow a small groups opinion here in eso?
please remove this program.

So what's the alternative? As if that's 'forum' I think you know already that wasn't working.

Don't get dragged in with tin foil hat conspiracy some of the reps are working damn hard, and players feedback clearly has been fed back.

LegendaryMage · August 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just a reminder that the Discord channels in question are run by the Class Reps, and are not official channels from ZOS. That said, sending you a PM @Scarpion. If anyone has concerns about the Class Rep program or individuals in the program, please message me privately to discuss.

Just a curious thought but are there official channels run by zos? I mean like discord.

Not at this time, no. We simply don't have the bandwidth to participate and moderate a persistent channel like that.

You don't have to participate much, you just need to make it and appoint long standing community members to run it. At least it would be 'official' and players wouldn't have space to cause problems like they did with the unofficial ones.

The players you appoint don't necessarily need to be class reps or anything of such sort, just take a look at any other big game's discord servers, such as PUBG or even ones that aren't out yet (Ashes, Crowfall etc).

This gives players a platform to socialize, make new friends, keep on top of news and so on, all in the same place.

Class rep Discords (not all of course) have been ran in a very questionable way so far, I exited all of them after 2-3 days literally, there was just no point in reading constant flaming and nonsense that buries any productive discussions.

And having a dozen of them is unnecessary too, 1 should have been enough if properly organized.

Ideally Elder Scrolls Online would finally get its own official Discord server and an area for the class rep program too. I've been saying this for a year now almost.

Violynne · August 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Furthermore, the Class Rep program just reinforces the idea that players know more about a game then the developer whihc I no longer agree with.

The reality of the situation is no single form of feedback is a good one. There must be diversification, because not everyone plays the same way. I've never played a DK, Templar, or Warden, so any questions such as "what class has the best passives" will yield no useful answers.

Every single question should be directed towards how the player engages the game, not what the game offers. Asking why certain skills are selected/used over others is an important introduction to how to fix classes which may be weaker in the same *type* of skill, but applied in the game differently.

As an example, many sorcs use pets, because one offers a sustain in health, but NBs have an extemely difficult time sustaining health because they're about damage. Tanks hit like a 5 year old girl, but can outlast us all.

The reason I pulled out this part of your quote is I'd like you to reconsider the position. As a developer myself, I can absolutely attest the audience knows more about a product than the developer. Players have a unique sense of putting things together developers would never think to do, either due to lack of time, or frankly, not seeing how procs/effects can work together under specific circumstances.

There is no fault here. ESO has grown. Changes have been made, and if I were to try and sit down and generalize the number of combinations, I can easily say there are over 12 million.

No dev team will ever anticipate every outcome of a possible 12 million combos. In fact, one even stated they were surprised when players used a skill with a proc to reap a benefit from the combination.

Players, combined, know more than the developers, and this is a fact I'll defend even as a developer myself.

This is why I agree with your assessment: use the players, not speakers, to get changes implemented in the game.

Inarre · August 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just a reminder that the Discord channels in question are run by the Class Reps, and are not official channels from ZOS. That said, sending you a PM @Scarpion. If anyone has concerns about the Class Rep program or individuals in the program, please message me privately to discuss.

Just a curious thought but are there official channels run by zos? I mean like discord.

Not at this time, no. We simply don't have the bandwidth to participate and moderate a persistent channel like that.

You don't have to participate much, you just need to make it and appoint long standing community members to run it. At least it would be 'official' and players wouldn't have space to cause problems like they did with the unofficial ones.

I think you underestimate the amount of time and resources it takes to moderate forums like these. Appointing long standing members to moderate would result in the same issues you are seeing in the community moderated discords currently.

LegendaryMage · August 2018

Inarre wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just a reminder that the Discord channels in question are run by the Class Reps, and are not official channels from ZOS. That said, sending you a PM @Scarpion. If anyone has concerns about the Class Rep program or individuals in the program, please message me privately to discuss.

Just a curious thought but are there official channels run by zos? I mean like discord.

Not at this time, no. We simply don't have the bandwidth to participate and moderate a persistent channel like that.

You don't have to participate much, you just need to make it and appoint long standing community members to run it. At least it would be 'official' and players wouldn't have space to cause problems like they did with the unofficial ones.

I think you underestimate the amount of time and resources it takes to moderate forums like these. Appointing long standing members to moderate would result in the same issues you are seeing in the community moderated discords currently.

Not at all, I'm a member in a lot of big discords from a lot of big games and they always have community members who shut down trolls swiftly. The devs don't even do much other than occasionally post a news post or a link to something important.

I think you might be over-estimating how easy it is to moderate and set up proper Discord with the help of bots and auto-muting/kicking/banning under certain circumstances.

It's definitely easier to moderate than forums, and quicker because as soon as someone is targeted you can just contact someone from the moderator role and get it resolved immediately whoever was online at the time.

On the forums it often drags longer than necessary due to mods not being there or whatever.

Edit; The issues you mentioned on the unofficial servers is precisely because they're unofficial and rarely someone takes their role seriously.

To give you an example when I joined, I was instantly targeted by a few well known trolls on PC EU, after I have sent screenshots and examples of why such lowlifes should be perma banned from there (they're all perma banned here on forums too), guess what happened?

Nothing at all.

They stayed there for a loooong looooong time, UNTIL a class rep had a problem with them personally from what I've heard. Then they got banned.

This shows that the reps are extremely biased and do not care as long as something really bad happens or some of them is targeted directly.

And that's what happens when you make one of the biggest exploiters of PC EU a class rep that also happens to laugh at *** memes of Wrobel from what I've also just heard.

The ideas are good, the people are wrong. It's that simple.

Inarre · August 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just a reminder that the Discord channels in question are run by the Class Reps, and are not official channels from ZOS. That said, sending you a PM @Scarpion. If anyone has concerns about the Class Rep program or individuals in the program, please message me privately to discuss.

Just a curious thought but are there official channels run by zos? I mean like discord.

Not at this time, no. We simply don't have the bandwidth to participate and moderate a persistent channel like that.

You don't have to participate much, you just need to make it and appoint long standing community members to run it. At least it would be 'official' and players wouldn't have space to cause problems like they did with the unofficial ones.

I think you underestimate the amount of time and resources it takes to moderate forums like these. Appointing long standing members to moderate would result in the same issues you are seeing in the community moderated discords currently.

Not at all, I'm a member in a lot of big discords from a lot of big games and they always have community members who shut down trolls swiftly. The devs don't even do much other than occasionally post a news post or a link to something important.

I think you might be over-estimating how easy it is to moderate and set up proper Discord with the help of bots and auto-muting/kicking/banning under certain circumstances.

It's definitely easier to moderate than forums, and quicker because as soon as someone is targeted you can just contact someone from the moderator role and get it resolved immediately whoever was online at the time.

On the forums it often drags longer than necessary due to mods not being there or whatever.

Edit; The issues you mentioned on the unofficial servers is precisely because they're unofficial and rarely someone takes their role seriously.

To give you an example when I joined, I was instantly targeted by a few well known trolls on PC EU, after I have sent screenshots and examples of why such lowlifes should be perma banned from there (they're all perma banned here on forums too), guess what happened?

Nothing at all.

They stayed there for a loooong looooong time, UNTIL a class rep had a problem with them personally from what I've heard. Then they got banned.

This shows that the reps are extremely biased and do not care as long as something really bad happens or some of them is targeted directly.

And that's what happens when you make one of the biggest exploiters of PC EU a class rep that also happens to laugh at *** memes of Wrobel from what I've also just heard.

The ideas are good, the people are wrong. It's that simple.

I think your comment demonstrates the type of challenges that unofficial discords are having. Being "targeted" goes both ways. Calling people lowlifes, biased, exploiters etc. does nothing to further the discussion. If this is the type of community members that are currently in charge of moderating unofficial projects, tasking other members of the community will be no different.

Additionally, the type of moderation you are discussing sounds like a 24 hour job for whoever is "in charge" of moderating. Again, it's not something that is simple to do. It might seem simple to you, to flag someone any time of day and see it handled immediately, but it is not simple for those that manage it.

I still see no benefit to your proposed resolution, aside from that these community members who will get the unpaid job of 24 hour moderation duty might be different than the individuals you currently have a hate on for.

ZOS_GinaBruno · August 2018

As mentioned earlier in this thread, if anyone has feedback about the Class Rep Program or one of the Reps themselves, you're welcome to send me a PM to discuss. Making vague statements in a public thread isn't constructive and won't do anything to help the program grow and improve. I'm closing this thread as it's already devolved into non-constructive discussion and borderline bashing, but my PMs are open.